1. Post #1
    Max The Mouse's Avatar
    June 2012
    837 Posts
    Here's the thing: In my head I wanna make good drawings like GastricTank and the crew. But everytime I'm drawing it'll start good, but end shitty. I draw with my my mouse and I was wondering if tablets help a lot.

    The good drawing I was inspired by (I know it's pen):


    My pee o' ess:


    Please help, FP :(

  2. Post #2
    DO YOU SLAP THE IMOUTO?YES/NO
    Eonart's Avatar
    August 2010
    5,046 Posts
    Lower mouse sensitivity, try to keep a good flow as you draw lines. Sometimes, if you make the brush bigger, it will look better but not too big though.

    Also, use WindowsXP Paint, not Windows 7. Download it here. Windows 7 paint lacks the key features to make the things that we do.

    If you're not comfortable with that, there's still Paint.NET which can do loads more things. Make sure to disable anti-aliasing. This probably counts as cheating though.
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  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,329 Posts
    A tablet definitely makes things easier but it's not like there's certain keys to drawing in certain programs.
    It's just either being able to draw well in general or not. Then it's good to start exploring other mediums.

    The best way to learn in my opinion is to consistently draw, on paper, from life whether it's objects or people. It teaches you the fundamental drawing process and mindset as well as how life really looks so that you can exaggerate it.
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  4. Post #4
    Max The Mouse's Avatar
    June 2012
    837 Posts
    Lower mouse sensitivity, try to keep a good flow as you draw lines. Sometimes, if you make the brush bigger, it will look better but not too big though.

    Also, use WindowsXP Paint, not Windows 7. Download it here. Windows 7 paint lacks the key features to make the things that we do.
    If you're not comfortable with that, there's still Paint.NET which can do loads more things. Make sure to disable anti-aliasing. This probably counts as cheating though.
    Oh, I was using Paint.NET ._.
    Guess I'm a dirty rule breaker

  5. Post #5
    OZZY INTENSIFIES
    GastricTank's Avatar
    August 2009
    9,052 Posts
    Here's the thing: In my head I wanna make good drawings like GastricTank and the crew.

    How flattering. <3

    Ok, foyst of all, envision the finished product, and keep it in mind whilst you draw, beginning to end. As you draw, if something looks wrong the second you draw it, undo it and fix it until you get it right. If you notice it later, revision is in place, whether it is taking a whole chunk of the piece and moving it, or just simply touching up lines. Much better than putting together a drawing and just saying: "This looks terrible" after finishing it and having to start over.

    As for tools, I use Windows 7 Paint and a wireless mouse. I never used a tablet, so I'm not sure how well they fare. I use Paint.net when I need to rotate an object, special effects, or when I need a transparent background.

    As Eonart said, Anti-aliasing is your worst enemy. It causes major problems when attempting to use the fill bucket, so stick with the pencil tool, bearing in mind that you can use ctrl +/- to adjust the pencil tool to a desired size.

    The rest is up to you getting used to your method of drawing, be it a mouse or tablet (there is no hope for laptop trackpads) and a steady hand will be yours within time. It took me awhile to get used to the mouse I have now, after having used a different one for years before it. Also, try to get a fabric-lined mousepad. The ones with sleek surfaces often causes problems, at least for me. As for drawing skill itself, it's all practice.

    Try to adopt some sort of personal art style, and don't forget that even I was bad at drawing at one point. People may have still liked my drawings then, but I look back 3 years ago and I shun that awful garbage. A roundabout way of putting it: Time. Lots and lots of time. You'll get better at drawing, just like a videogame that you've never played before.
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  6. Post #6
    Sewer guy's Avatar
    December 2010
    809 Posts
    What do you guys use for making .GIFs?

  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,329 Posts
    Try to adopt some sort of personal art style,
    No no no.
    The rest is fine but for you own sake OP, do not follow this advice.

    Doing this is how you limit yourself with a foot high ceiling. The people who do this are the ones who who's drawings look almost identical for years with little to no improvement.

    People adopt their own style, yes but only after they really learn how to draw from life so that they can stylize it.

  8. Post #8
    Max The Mouse's Avatar
    June 2012
    837 Posts

    How flattering. <3

    Ok, foyst of all, envision the finished product, and keep it in mind whilst you draw, beginning to end. As you draw, if something looks wrong the second you draw it, undo it and fix it until you get it right. If you notice it later, revision is in place, whether it is taking a whole chunk of the piece and moving it, or just simply touching up lines. Much better than putting together a drawing and just saying: "This looks terrible" after finishing it and having to start over.

    As for tools, I use Windows 7 Paint and a wireless mouse. I never used a tablet, so I'm not sure how well they fare. I use Paint.net when I need to rotate an object, special effects, or when I need a transparent background.

    As Eonart said, Anti-aliasing is your worst enemy. It causes major problems when attempting to use the fill bucket, so stick with the pencil tool, bearing in mind that you can use ctrl +/- to adjust the pencil tool to a desired size.

    The rest is up to you getting used to your method of drawing, be it a mouse or tablet (there is no hope for laptop trackpads) and a steady hand will be yours within time. It took me awhile to get used to the mouse I have now, after having used a different one for years before it. Also, try to get a fabric-lined mousepad. The ones with sleek surfaces often causes problems, at least for me. As for drawing skill itself, it's all practice.

    Try to adopt some sort of personal art style, and don't forget that even I was bad at drawing at one point. People may have still liked my drawings then, but I look back 3 years ago and I shun that awful garbage. A roundabout way of putting it: Time. Lots and lots of time. You'll get better at drawing, just like a videogame that you've never played before.
    Thank you, you are my favorite person on Facepunch (。◕ ‿ ◕。)
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  9. Post #9
    OZZY INTENSIFIES
    GastricTank's Avatar
    August 2009
    9,052 Posts
    yes but only after they really learn how to draw from life so that they can stylize it.
    Well, that's a given.

    Obviously if you don't understand basic anatomy, you couldn't adopt a style in the first place. How can you stylize what you can't draw in the first place?

    See: DeviantArt.

    But yes, I should've explained that further, but I already felt like what I wrote was a lot, a wall of text if you will.

    Edited:

    What do you guys use for making .GIFs?
    I use GIMP.
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  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,329 Posts
    I wouldn't call it a given based on what I've seen on sites like DeviantArt.
    There are plenty of those everywhere that have a "style" who do not actually know how to draw (and you can tell it)

    Glad to see you're actually on that same page though. I really like your stuff and it's about the only reason I come to this section.
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  11. Post #11
    Krinkels's Avatar
    March 2011
    3,444 Posts
    As for tools, I use Windows 7 Paint and a wireless mouse. I never used a tablet, so I'm not sure how well they fare. I use Paint.net when I need to rotate an object, special effects, or when I need a transparent background.

    As Eonart said, Anti-aliasing is your worst enemy. It causes major problems when attempting to use the fill bucket, so stick with the pencil tool, bearing in mind that you can use ctrl +/- to adjust the pencil tool to a desired size.

    The rest is up to you getting used to your method of drawing, be it a mouse or tablet (there is no hope for laptop trackpads) and a steady hand will be yours within time. It took me awhile to get used to the mouse I have now, after having used a different one for years before it. Also, try to get a fabric-lined mousepad. The ones with sleek surfaces often causes problems, at least for me. As for drawing skill itself, it's all practice.

    Try to adopt some sort of personal art style, and don't forget that even I was bad at drawing at one point. People may have still liked my drawings then, but I look back 3 years ago and I shun that awful garbage. A roundabout way of putting it: Time. Lots and lots of time. You'll get better at drawing, just like a videogame that you've never played before.
    Anti-aliasing isn't something to avoid entirely; it's a nice touch when finishing a drawing. The oil brushes are actually kind of neat for quick, messy, colourful stuff as long as you plan to avoid the fill tool. I'll post some examples in the creative work thread.

    Max The Mouse, tablets and mice are a matter of personal preference. The former is somewhat of a waste without first acquiring skill drawing traditionally. Either way, you'll need to put in some effort learning how to use them. Many great artists here use the mouse. There are too many to name and for each another two have declined to voice their preference. The program you use is also something of a preference. Paint 7, on one hand, is buggy, and somewhat cumbersome to use. The black and white mode eats up memory gluttonously, and rotations are more difficult and require a longer process. Files often forget which colour is which, so colour replacement is frustrating and sometimes impossible between saves. On the other, 7 comes with limited brush and dithering effects, and more effective and diverse shape tools. XP has a cleaner interface, less automatic anti-aliasing and, as Eonart mentioned but didn't elaborate upon, critical tools for excellent art. I'm not familiar with paint.net.

    GT is right, time is a good way of improving. Once you're familiar with the tools and programs you're planning to use, it's a really good idea to start learning to draw on paper. Anatomy, values, colour theory, and knowledge of a subject can be learnt quickly and most effectively by doing studies and drawing from life and getting in lots of practice. Meller Yeller has the right idea, in my opinion.

    What follows is a suggestion about specifically what process works for me. If you don't like what I draw then you should probably seek advice on this matter from someone else. As for your piece specifically, it look like you were screwing around without first turning off anti-aliasing. Once you do that, you might want to take a different approach and consider the fact that you're adding colour. Since you are, you're going to want to block out values using quick sketch lines with the pencil tool, and filling everywhere but the highlights with different shades of grey or some other colour. Pay attention to where things are darkest, and put drop shadows behind ridges and bumps. Make sure the angle of the shadows is consistent with the light source. Then, you can eliminate all the lineart and your picture can just be defined using colours to make a more realistic picture. The boundaries between the different shades of grey can then be dithered with intermediary colours, again without anti-aliasing. On the dark side, the skeleton and robe can blend seamlessly, for they are both darkened by shadows. On the light, smaller details can be more visible and the robe will also appear brighter. For perspective remember that the robe will be obscured on some side by the skull, and vice versa on the other. This doesn't hold true if it is facing directly at you, and 99% of the time it won't. The colours, once the anatomy and values and such checks out, can be made more realistic by making dark greys have a cool hue with low saturation, and brighter colours having warm hues with low saturation, keeping the luminosity the same as the greys. Once this is done, 7's paint brushes can give the robe a wispier look, or can make the blending look a bit better if the dithering looks bad.

    Alternately, you can make a quick, stylised one which recreates the appearance of the pen drawing by using the pencil tool and one colour, or one with more emphasis on the robes by just using brushes. I'll be uploading illustrations in a few hours.

    Edited:

    That was real condescending of me so reply to that which you disagree with.
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  12. Post #12
    OZZY INTENSIFIES
    GastricTank's Avatar
    August 2009
    9,052 Posts
    That was real condescending of me so reply to that which you disagree with.
    Nah your input is cool too. Also I didn't know that about Windows 7, but I still prefer it. There are 10 more color tabs that you can use for custom colors without replacing the 20 default colors, which are actually already better than the 20 default colors given in previous versions.

    The shape tools other than lines and your typical shapes aren't even noteworthy though. Seriously, those are the worst word-bubbles I've ever seen.

    Some people may find use for those fancy brushes, I just never have. I know it sounds lazy, but I really love simplicity and solid colors tickle my fancy. vv
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  13. Post #13
    Krinkels's Avatar
    March 2011
    3,444 Posts
    So here's a bunch of pictures showing what I do:

    Okay, so I start off with a sketch. A sketch is supposed to act as a guide for further refinement, as well as acknowledge and display the presence of three-dimensional forms. Drawing anything becomes easier if it can be easily broken down into basic shapes. I drew a sphere for the head and a conic frustrum(?) for the jaw, then draped it and its shoulders in cloth for the robes. I also drew some lines indicating wrinkles.

    I start blocking out the robe's colours. I thus indicate the light source as being behind the subject and to the right, out of frame. All the shading is to be done with this in mind.

    Filling in gaps and erasing lines.

    The image flips at this point. I've actually been flipping every fifteen minutes. Mistakes are easier to spot when the image is rotated or reflected. I used a ton of lines as a place holder for hair and it's made the fill bucket impractical to use; instead of starting the sketch over I simply start blocking out colours with an enlarged pencil. In 7 paint, do this by hitting ctrl+NUM+ several times. Notice I'm leaving out details and instead just focusing on the basic shape. Green is a placeholder colour, and it'll be erased once the entire face is blocked out. Notice how the robe and the side of the face are casting shadows upon the rest of the face and the robe.

    The entire face's shadows are blocked out, so now they need to be more finely detailed.

    To blend between areas of shadow, noise is added around the borders. This is called dithering, and it has the apparent effect of increasing colour depth. The noise can be added by clicking a bunch, but when there's a lot to do, I make very small scribbles around the borders between shades.

    I then begin shading the robes. The robes require far less detail and precision. I'm going to use the fancy win7 brushes for the sake of using them. To blend using the oil brush, I basically do the same thing with dithering, but I make sure the brush is extra large. I brush the lighter colour onto the darker, and then use a colour picker for one of the colours now at the boundary, and then I keep doing the same until I'm satisfied with how it looks. Furthermore, the green face is turned grey with the colour replacement tool. Because I got lazy with the dithering, there's only five colours to replace. Replacing them merely requires that you select the one you want to replace as the foreground colour, and the replacement colour as a background colour. Right clicking the eraser tool will just replace any instances of the foreground colour with the background colour. I also add a black background, and clean up the white spaces with the eraser tool.



    Finally, hair is added. Usually, it'd be much easier to draw but it's too thin to draw like a big tooth. The best I can do here is some white lines with the regular sized pencil. Looks like it's about done.
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  14. Post #14
    Max The Mouse's Avatar
    June 2012
    837 Posts
    Anti-aliasing isn't something to avoid entirely; it's a nice touch when finishing a drawing. The oil brushes are actually kind of neat for quick, messy, colourful stuff as long as you plan to avoid the fill tool. I'll post some examples in the creative work thread.

    Max The Mouse, tablets and mice are a matter of personal preference. The former is somewhat of a waste without first acquiring skill drawing traditionally. Either way, you'll need to put in some effort learning how to use them. Many great artists here use the mouse. There are too many to name and for each another two have declined to voice their preference. The program you use is also something of a preference. Paint 7, on one hand, is buggy, and somewhat cumbersome to use. The black and white mode eats up memory gluttonously, and rotations are more difficult and require a longer process. Files often forget which colour is which, so colour replacement is frustrating and sometimes impossible between saves. On the other, 7 comes with limited brush and dithering effects, and more effective and diverse shape tools. XP has a cleaner interface, less automatic anti-aliasing and, as Eonart mentioned but didn't elaborate upon, critical tools for excellent art. I'm not familiar with paint.net.

    GT is right, time is a good way of improving. Once you're familiar with the tools and programs you're planning to use, it's a really good idea to start learning to draw on paper. Anatomy, values, colour theory, and knowledge of a subject can be learnt quickly and most effectively by doing studies and drawing from life and getting in lots of practice. Meller Yeller has the right idea, in my opinion.

    What follows is a suggestion about specifically what process works for me. If you don't like what I draw then you should probably seek advice on this matter from someone else. As for your piece specifically, it look like you were screwing around without first turning off anti-aliasing. Once you do that, you might want to take a different approach and consider the fact that you're adding colour. Since you are, you're going to want to block out values using quick sketch lines with the pencil tool, and filling everywhere but the highlights with different shades of grey or some other colour. Pay attention to where things are darkest, and put drop shadows behind ridges and bumps. Make sure the angle of the shadows is consistent with the light source. Then, you can eliminate all the lineart and your picture can just be defined using colours to make a more realistic picture. The boundaries between the different shades of grey can then be dithered with intermediary colours, again without anti-aliasing. On the dark side, the skeleton and robe can blend seamlessly, for they are both darkened by shadows. On the light, smaller details can be more visible and the robe will also appear brighter. For perspective remember that the robe will be obscured on some side by the skull, and vice versa on the other. This doesn't hold true if it is facing directly at you, and 99% of the time it won't. The colours, once the anatomy and values and such checks out, can be made more realistic by making dark greys have a cool hue with low saturation, and brighter colours having warm hues with low saturation, keeping the luminosity the same as the greys. Once this is done, 7's paint brushes can give the robe a wispier look, or can make the blending look a bit better if the dithering looks bad.

    Alternately, you can make a quick, stylised one which recreates the appearance of the pen drawing by using the pencil tool and one colour, or one with more emphasis on the robes by just using brushes. I'll be uploading illustrations in a few hours.

    Edited:

    That was real condescending of me so reply to that which you disagree with.
    Thanks, I never though about how much anti-aliasing hurts your pictures

  15. Post #15
    rovar's Avatar
    November 2009
    3,682 Posts
    Also, jump in now and do as many drawings as you want/can. It'll be a good "progress" report if you will. It'll show your improvements over weeks, months, and even over the years.

    Like GT, I have many, many of my old pictures. Good reference of what I've done wrong and what I've done right, what style I've adopted etc.

    However, be sure not to adopt incorrect habits. I know it's drawing and art but there still are mistakes that people shouldn't generally do in drawing. If you keep tabs on all your drawings, be sure to date them and back them up. Computer screw ups don't help at all, so just time stamp your drawing in a little extra space by increasing the canvas size and just write it in at the bottom. I'm just an organization freak so that's just me. But it has really helped me in improving by showing my mistakes and capitalizing on it so I can fix them.

    The above rule only works with the value of:

    Don't ever discard a drawing.

    If you hate it, fine. Save it, time stamp it, start a new version and redo it. Compare it, and learn. It's so very effective. It's a great way to learn a style in my opinion, if you just look at other people's styles and copy them for practice. You may accidentally learn to adopt that person's drawing style and make a habit of drawing a certain way. To me, that's a no-no. I LOVE GastricTank's art style. It's incredible, but instead of learning from it, use it as a reference and teach yourself. Those are 2 completely different things.

    A reference will teach you about the picture's subject, the proportions, anatomy, etc. Learning from it is different, you're looking at the picture itself. The style, colors, techniques, the mechanics of drawing. At least that is what it is to me.

    I mean, I'm pretty awful at human anatomy. GastricTank has a cartoony style, while I like to use a realistic style. But I can still use GT's pictures as a reference if a certain character has particular anatomy that I want to copy. I can use my own style and translate the anatomy into my own drawing. It's helpful if you like doing fan art. I mean, if you're using a reference off like Google or something, don't copy and paste it and draw it pixel for pixel. That's not what a reference is for. It's to give you an idea of how to draw a particular subject. (Human reference, gun reference, environment reference.)

    Actually I don't recommend taking advice from me seeing how I'm a God awful artist. :c
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  16. Post #16
    andololol's Avatar
    October 2011
    1,402 Posts
    Also, jump in now and do as many drawings as you want/can. It'll be a good "progress" report if you will. It'll show your improvements over weeks, months, and even over the years.

    Like GT, I have many, many of my old pictures. Good reference of what I've done wrong and what I've done right, what style I've adopted etc.

    However, be sure not to adopt incorrect habits. I know it's drawing and art but there still are mistakes that people shouldn't generally do in drawing. If you keep tabs on all your drawings, be sure to date them and back them up. Computer screw ups don't help at all, so just time stamp your drawing in a little extra space by increasing the canvas size and just write it in at the bottom. I'm just an organization freak so that's just me. But it has really helped me in improving by showing my mistakes and capitalizing on it so I can fix them.

    The above rule only works with the value of:

    Don't ever discard a drawing.

    If you hate it, fine. Save it, time stamp it, start a new version and redo it. Compare it, and learn. It's so very effective. It's a great way to learn a style in my opinion, if you just look at other people's styles and copy them for practice. You may accidentally learn to adopt that person's drawing style and make a habit of drawing a certain way. To me, that's a no-no. I LOVE GastricTank's art style. It's incredible, but instead of learning from it, use it as a reference and teach yourself. Those are 2 completely different things.

    A reference will teach you about the picture's subject, the proportions, anatomy, etc. Learning from it is different, you're looking at the picture itself. The style, colors, techniques, the mechanics of drawing. At least that is what it is to me.

    I mean, I'm pretty awful at human anatomy. GastricTank has a cartoony style, while I like to use a realistic style. But I can still use GT's pictures as a reference if a certain character has particular anatomy that I want to copy. I can use my own style and translate the anatomy into my own drawing. It's helpful if you like doing fan art. I mean, if you're using a reference off like Google or something, don't copy and paste it and draw it pixel for pixel. That's not what a reference is for. It's to give you an idea of how to draw a particular subject. (Human reference, gun reference, environment reference.)

    Actually I don't recommend taking advice from me seeing how I'm a God awful artist. :c
    Your gun sprites are pretty cool.
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  17. Post #17
    fingerinmum's Avatar
    May 2012
    184 Posts
    Practice and a tablet I found were key to success. Don't try and copy anyone but develop your own style. Personally I opted for hyper realism and porn gore but thats just what I enjoyed doing. Getting involved with collab projects is a good motivator to draw. I never found much motivation to draw stuff for the sake of dumping it on forums.

    Jewdozer signing out.

  18. Post #18
    andololol's Avatar
    October 2011
    1,402 Posts
    Practice and a tablet I found were key to success. Don't try and copy anyone but develop your own style. Personally I opted for hyper realism and porn gore but thats just what I enjoyed doing. Getting involved with collab projects is a good motivator to draw. I never found much motivation to draw stuff for the sake of dumping it on forums.

    Jewdozer signing out.
    What is porn gore?
    I have nothing against it, I'm a neutral person and don't really unspupport many things because I don't know much about it.

  19. Post #19
    Max The Mouse's Avatar
    June 2012
    837 Posts
    Oh my god, I think I found the problem...I can't draw full bodies...
    I did 2 magic items in that thread, and in my opinion they aren't god awful


  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,329 Posts
    Practice drawing lots of naked people

    Preferably tasteful naked people
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  21. Post #21
    Max The Mouse's Avatar
    June 2012
    837 Posts
    Practice drawing lots of naked people

    Preferably tasteful naked people
    *Friend sees my giant folder full of naked people, named 'Facepunch'* Oh, this guy told me to draw him some naked chicks ;_;

  22. Post #22
    andololol's Avatar
    October 2011
    1,402 Posts
    *Friend sees my giant folder full of naked people, named 'Facepunch'* Oh, this guy told me to draw him some naked chicks ;_;
    At least it's your friend and not one of your kin. Things are explained better for friends than family for me.

    Edited:

    Actually, you can make it really hard to find by putting it in (C:)
    If you download things like a lot of other people do then people would probably read over it and ignore it.
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  23. Post #23
    fingerinmum's Avatar
    May 2012
    184 Posts
    What is porn gore?
    I have nothing against it, I'm a neutral person and don't really unspupport many things because I don't know much about it.
    Stick it in google images and have a wank.
    Practice drawing lots of naked people

    Preferably tasteful naked people
    This man speaks sense. I used to use met-art and hegre for a lot of my drawing ideas and then added the blood and weapons afterwards. After a few weeks you get a feel for drawing bodies and anatomy.