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Post #121
WOW. If you're reaching so fucking low, you 'lost your shit' at me first, moron.
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Anyway ybbats brings up a decent point in all honesty. Is it right for someone who killed anyone to get out after 30 years? I do not care if it is lennon or the average joe.
(User was banned for this post ("Image macro" - Craptasket))
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That was pretty much the original argument, so I guess we've come full circle. And I still say that yes, it is. If they realize that what they did was wrong and show regret, all with the system saying they're okay, then the system has done its job.
Edited:
We need a mass debate thread.
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Yeah but, fuck'em. Hope he rots
Let's just let Holmes out of prison in 32 years, I mean after all as long as he shows he's mentally fit, which he was doing before he shot up a theater, then what harm is there
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And what leads you to think he would be mentally fit to rejoin society? And on top of that, he killed a lot more people. He has a worse crime, and thus a worse sentence.
Honestly, if in 30 years or 50 years or whenever he's eligible for parole, the system deems him fit to return to society, I would support that decision.
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I really hate how he said "oh i was inspired by catcher in the rye" and "oh im a real-life holden caulfield". in catcher in the rye, holden constantly talks about how he hates phonies, and thats exactly what chapman was. He went with the whole "i listened to lennons music and got angry because he spoke of having no possessions despite having a lot of stuff" and then later said "i killed lennon in the hope that i would gain his fame". Now whenever I mention my favourite book to someone, they say "omg im not reading dat it kill lemon"
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You can't answer a question such as this one by something as simple as "yes" or "no". There is a lot of factors in the equation and you can't just state that murder is a universal reason to send someone in prison for the rest of his life.
In the case of Chapman, I think he deserves to be free. He has stayed for 32 years in prison and has barely committed a single infraction in his time there. Plus, his murder was motivated by anger, which was directed on a single individual, who is now dead - he didn't kill him because he wants to kill everyone or because he wants to play god, he killed for a very specific motive that only applied to Lennon. And 32 years after his deed, I'm fairly certain he isn't a danger to society anymore.
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Right but it shows the fact they have the capability to kill someone just because they dislike them extremely. Who says once anyone is out of prison "rehabilitated" they will not garner that same hate for someone and commit murder again.
Edited:
Of course I really don't care all that much and I think Chapman should go free.
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That whole "you never know" mentality is the plague of Prison. Of course you never know, no one's psychic, you can't know for absolute sure if someone is never going to commit a crime again or else, but you have to gather all the factors, analyze the situation carefully, and take the most appropriate conclusion you can, with the most appropriate action possible.
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as a beatles fan, i think he's served enough time.
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Hell, I'm not sure which i'd choose, 20 years all by myself, or death. 20 years would be fucking hell.
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jesus christ I don't even know why you guys bother arguing any more
internet arguments NEVER change anybodies opinion, and just spam threads
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My rational mind tells me that he's maybe been in long enough, or too long...but my biased mind thinks the opposite when I listen to Imagine and remember the ridiculous reason why he shot one of the most famous people in the entire world. Remembering that fame is a huge factor, whether we like it or not; and he was shot, just so he could be remembered as "The guy who shot John Lennon"
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Would you prefer us all just say "RIP John Lennon I'd suck your dick"?
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what's with the vitriolic outpouring against yoko? her husband was horrifically killed, which no doubt would have been terribly traumatising - it's completely understandable that she doesn't want his killer freed, even if its required by fairness of law. it's alright to disagree with her but at least show a little empathy, rather than "SHUT THE FUCK UP DUMB BITCH"
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yes
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I suppose the way you could see it is that the man who shot John Lennon is gone. If Mark Chapman's mentally stable enough to re-enter society, we can't blame him for stuff he did when he was batshit crazy. I despise the fact that he shot John Lennon, but no person deserves to be kept in prison if nobody would be hurt by them being let out. At the first sign of him going a little loopy (eg obsessions, like he had with Catcher in the Rye), then just put him back in until you're sure he's ready. The Beatles are my favourite band, and it's awful that we'll never get to know what would have happened had John not died so young, but... There's nothing we can do about it now.
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I wonder what John Lennon would have wanted for his killer now.
He doesn't seem he was the type to support state prisons... I think maybe he'd want the guy released providing he had been socially rehabilitated and was no longer a danger to communities.
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Honestly I think if you've killed someone I think you've full lost the right to your own life. Which I'm not saying he should be killed, I'm saying murders shouldn't be allowed out of prison. Just because you've been reformed it doesn't change the fact you took something from someone that wasn't yours to take, and it's not something that person can get back. It's also something the family can't get back. How would you feel if your husband or wife was killed in front of you for no absolute reason at all? I feel bad for Yoko and understand where she's coming from. When you love a person so much and they're just gone all of a sudden you're going to be angry and even scared for your own life too. I'm not blaming her for wanting him in prison. It's probably for his own safety too, how many people out there do you think would love to kill the guy who shot John Lennon? They'd have to be completely crazy, but it doesn't matter if he changes his name or whatever, there is that possibility that somebody somewhere will find him. I know you'll probably say "hurr durr you're biased" but yeah I am. I am biased towards any murders, like I said if you take someone's life you have no right of your own. I don't really care if you killed John Lennon or anybody else, a murder whoever it is, is sad.
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I'm saying after what he did he deserves whatever happens. So if he stays in prison the rest of his life it's his own fault, but if whoever decides that he's reformed enough and is released, good for him.
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Life sentence for everyone who steals a vase then smashes it.
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You honestly compare human life to a vase?
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Cue a billion butthurt teenage Beatles fans who weren't alive when it happened feeling that they have a personal vendetta to avenge.
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I'd disagree and say was to protect society from people. The people who run the justice system are the ones who say what prison is for, if they want to lock a dangerous man up for life then it's to keep him away from others.
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It's obvious that people just want him in prison because he killed John Lennon, and that's the only reason. If he killed a random person, most people would say that he's paid his debt, but since John Lennon was the person he killed, a lot of people don't want him released.
Well, if he does get out, my money is on him being killed in the first 48 hours.
Edited:
This is such a bullshit argument. You're saying that if you kill someone, and it doesn't matter who, nor does it matter what they did, you should rot in Jail for the rest of your life? What about soldiers who kill the taliban? What about people who kill in self-defense. That's still taking a life, so you think they all should be locked in jail too?
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Hyperbole.
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after 32 years if people are still mad enough to kill someone in vengeance (or mad in general), then my opinion on beetles fans would be proven right
seriously you guys are getting mad about him being freed yet you weren't even alive when the shit happened
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Very unlikely. They're not going to drop him off on the street. He'll be given a new identity and probably sent to a different country where he'll have to start a new life.
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I absolutely love the Beatles but I can't understand how other fans want to keep him locked up - or even killed.
As awesome as their music is, well....it's just only music.
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I'm saddened to read comments on other sites about this. They actually want him executed or "let him out and we will finish the job".
Morons.
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If you intentionally take another life, then you relinquish your right to have one. He should be happy he's allowed to live his years as it is
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I'm a huge Beatles fan and I think that Chapman already served his time. If it wasn't Lennon or any other famous person that got shot he would have already been out of jail, or atleast some sort of mental institute.
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You don't understand how rights work.
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Look, why would you mention being a Beatles fan if it (supposedly) didn't impact on your feelings towards the killer?
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OPINIONS
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In that situation it's kill or be killed. My post was about this thread, someone murders for no reason at all just, because they feel like it or want to be famous or some other bullshit like that.
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Someone make this thread in Mass Debate.
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I don't like going to Mass Debate that much.
This is Mass Debate compared to Sensationalist Headlines.
The latter is far more fun to argue.
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Cold blooded murder like this should be a life sentence honestly, he even pleaded guilty.
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People have this misconception that Lennon was some fame whore. Despite Paul being the one that stole the spotlight and took credit for basically anything, made up gossip and drama that everybody else called wrong and was a massive drama queen about The Beatles splitting up. People mainly call him a hypocrite as:
That he never spoke to his son.
That he owned possessions despite saying "Imagine no possessions" in his song.
That he beat people up and nearly killed a man.
He wasn't working class despite singing about Working Class heroes.
The appropriate (and totally fair) counter argument to these is usually:
He was far to young to even have a family, he was in the biggest band in a planet and frankly a jerk up until he met Yoko. His own father left him, his mother left him and then died and he had a somewhat cold relationship with his Aunt who raised him. The guy never was ready for a family. Though in those last 5 years of his life he completly changed it and put all his effort into making up time with Julian his first son and retired from Music to look after Sean his youngest.
Imagine no possessions is saying we put to much emphasis on personal belongings not we should throw our shit away.
When he was about 19 he got smashed out of his face at Pauls birthday party and attacked some guy that was talking shit about Paul.
His song Working Class Hero is more of a call to arms than a "hello I'm a working class hero".
The thing with Chapman is he never should have been in prison. I'm a massive Lennon fan and everything but Chapman should've got some serious fucking help. Instead he got prison time and a sting of interviews. He wanted fame and he got it. Let him out, even though I don't believe any murderer should be let free, you take a life and you deserve life. Specially when you do it cold blooded like Chapman, the guy was on his way to see his son for gods sake and you shoot him in the back a hundred times I mean seriously. John then gets up and keeps fucking walking like it was nothing. It's a fucking violent murder. But that's my opinion and it means nothing.
Yoko officially forgave him. She shouldn't be stopping this.
But her husband who she unarguably adored to an unhealthy obsession was violently shot down infront of her and outside her home by this guy. She has every right to object just as you would if it was your partner.
Edited:
If Lennon survived that shooting he'd probably have become like George Harrison after the attempt on his life failed. Live as a bit of a recluse afraid of people. He'd probably want to exact revenge, the man wanted peace but he knew he was as flawed as everybody else. He's written some of the angriest personal attacks I've ever heard in music. Like making fun of Pauls dead mother.
Dumb x 7
Agree x 2
Friendly x 1
Disagree x 1
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Optimistic x 1
Funny x 3
Late x 1
