[MadPro119]

Nazereth666 posted:

Does bias matter when we are talking about murder? Are we trying to disprove that he shot Lennon?

You are as dumb as a fucking brick.

Bias matters completely. There is a reason we use the jury process for determining guilt in crimes.

[Zally13]

Nazereth666 posted:

Does bias matter when we are talking about murder? Are we trying to disprove that he shot Lennon?

I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

We're arguing that you're holding a certain position based on the fact that you enjoyed somebody's music. Even if he made popular music, his killer shouldn't have to stay in prison longer than someone who killed the average Joe. He appears to be reformed, so we're saying let him have parole.

[Nazereth666]

Zally13 posted:

I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

We're arguing that you're holding a certain position based on the fact that you enjoyed somebody's music. Even if he made popular music, his killer shouldn't have to stay in prison longer than someone who killed the average Joe. He appears to be reformed, so we're saying let him have parole.

He needs to stay in jail because unlike some average Joe that may have a family after him for revenge this guy has hundreds of people pissed of and crazy enough to kill him. You are worse than I am for wanting to releasing a man who is probably doomed.

[venn178]

So punish someone because they hate him?

Let me try this: You should stay in the refugee camp because everyone in this thread is crazy enough to kill you.

[lolwutdude]

Ganerumo posted:

ITT beatles fan fail to understand the concept of justice

pretty much this

then again, if beatles fan wants the man to stay in after 32 years cause he killed john lennon

i wonder what the super fanatical fans will do to him once he gets out

[venn178]

See how flawed the logic there is?

Give him a new name and identity if you have to, but don't punish him. He's reformed, that's justice.

Edited:

:ninja:

[lavacano]

First, we move Chapman to prison's "general population" if he's not already there. Because if he's been in a single person cell for this whole time, I don't think having no infractions for 18 years or whatever is really any proof he's ready to come back (because how would he "cause an infraction" if there's nobody to attack?).

Now, if he maintains good behavior when with most everyone else in the prison, then I say he's fine and he should come out.

[Vodkavia]

Nazereth666 posted:

He needs to stay in jail because unlike some average Joe that may have a family after him for revenge this guy has hundreds of people pissed of and crazy enough to kill him. You are worse than I am for wanting to releasing a man who is probably doomed.

Possibly doomed, not necessarily doomed.

[Marbalo]

lolwutdude posted:

pretty much this

then again, if beatles fan wants the man to stay in after 32 years cause he killed john lennon

i wonder what the super fanatical fans will do to him once he gets out

what kind of 'fanatical fans' does john lennon have?

the guy advocated peace, i'm sure he wouldn't want to be "avenged" or anything of the sort

[Nazereth666]

venn178 posted:

So punish someone because they hate him?

Let me try this: You should stay in the refugee camp because everyone in this thread is crazy enough to kill you.

Facepunch killer master race.

[lolwutdude]

venn178 posted:

See how flawed the logic there is?

Give him a new name and identity if you have to, but don't punish him. He's reformed, that's justice.

Edited:

:ninja:

yeah, pretty much, if he's reformed, then send him out with a new name and shit then keep an eye on him

im still convinced he'll at least be attacked now and then though

Edited:

Marbalo posted:

what kind of 'fanatical fans' does john lennon have?

the guy advocated peace, i'm sure he wouldn't want to be "avenged" or anything of the sort

jesus advocated peace, see where that got his fans at?

have you seen fanatical john lennon fans

they're fucking crazy

[venn178]

Marbalo posted:

what kind of 'fanatical fans' does john lennon have?

the guy advocated peace, i'm sure he wouldn't want to be "avenged" or anything of the sort

Of course not, but he's already fairly hypocritical. And everyone has fanatical fans.

[Nazereth666]

venn178 posted:

See how flawed the logic there is?

Give him a new name and identity if you have to, but don't punish him. He's reformed, that's justice.

Edited:

:ninja:

Oh then he will he welcome in your home? Doubt it.

[venn178]

Yes. If a court system deems him fit as a member of society, I won't use that as a reason to keep him out of my home.

[No Party Hats]

I'm a beatles fan and I still say that he should go free, he served his time and is better now for it.

That's what prisons are for, reforming people.

[megafat]

If you kill Justin Bieber, One Direction and Lady Gaga within the next 72 hours, you can go free and labels get the idea that we don't want terrible music.

[No Party Hats]

Ganerumo posted:

ITT beatles fan fail to understand the concept of justice

careful dude, ITT is bannable now

Edited:

megafat posted:

If you kill Justin Bieber, One Direction and Lady Gaga within the next 72 hours, you can go free and labels get the idea that we don't want terrible music.

"they make music i dont like so they should die"

[venn178]

No Party Hats posted:

careful dude, ITT is bannable now

It seems okay. It's a very accurate summation of the entire thread, really.

[Ganerumo]

Nazereth666 posted:

He needs to stay in jail because unlike some average Joe that may have a family after him for revenge this guy has hundreds of people pissed of and crazy enough to kill him. You are worse than I am for wanting to releasing a man who is probably doomed.

If anything most of the beatles fan who care about it will just rant on facebook or twitter about how he got released and it'll stop there.

It's been 32 fucking years, the people who wanted Chapman dead to the point they even put bounties on his head have very likely decided to move on.

And Yoko Ono is a dumb bitch for wanting this man to stay in prison for the rest of his life. If she's so afraid she can always request a restraining order on him and hire a few bodyguards.

[Ybbats]

venn178 posted:

Of course not, but he's already fairly hypocritical. And everyone has fanatical fans.

You're saying he's hypocritical because of one line from one of his songs. You didn't know John, who the fuck are you to say such ridiculous bullshit. It almost sounds like you're defending his actions.


Personally I don't feel any sympathy for the guy, he murdered a peaceful person just because they were a celebrity. Really don't care what happens to him but I certainly don't wish him to be released, he murdered a human being who didn't do anything, of course he's going to regret it after the fact, does not mean he's excused for his actions.

[Nazereth666]

venn178 posted:

Yes. If a court system deems him fit as a member of society, I won't use that as a reason to keep him out of my home.

So if the court system deemed jumping out of a plane without a parachute is safe would you do it? Honestly, I am all for rehabilitation of criminals but it doesn't always work. People have been released just to go right back to their old ways.

And only after you look back with hindsight do you say, oh fuck.

[megafat]

No Party Hats posted:

careful dude, ITT is bannable now

Edited:



"they make music i dont like so they should die"

It's not bad so much as lazily written and rushed out the door.

[venn178]

You're severely underestimating the insanity that every fanbase has. Obviously a vast majority of anything's fanbase is going to be normal, but there will always be those few that would want him dead and be so crazy as to go through with it.

Edited:

Nazereth666 posted:

So if the court system deemed jumping out of a plane without a parachute is safe would you do it? Honestly, I am all for rehabilitation of criminals but it doesn't always work. People have been released just to go right back to their old ways.

And only after you look back with hindsight do you say, oh fuck.

But they wouldn't. Give an example of something they deemed safe with ample evidence of the contrary and your argument has merit.

[Ganerumo]

Nazereth666 posted:

So if the court system deemed jumping out of a plane without a parachute is safe would you do it? Honestly, I am all for rehabilitation of criminals but it doesn't always work. People have been released just to go right back to their old ways.

And only after you look back with hindsight do you say, oh fuck.

Ever heard of a funny thing called common sense ?

[No Party Hats]

megafat posted:

It's not bad so much as lazily written and rushed out the door.

i never said it was bad.

i enjoy lady gaga's music personally.

[venn178]

Nazereth666 posted:

Honestly, I am all for rehabilitation of criminals but it doesn't always work.

Here you're admitting that you believe it works, at least sometimes. What makes this case special that it's a guaranteed failure and he is not rehabilitated?

[Nazereth666]

venn178 posted:

You're severely underestimating the insanity that every fanbase has. Obviously a vast majority of anything's fanbase is going to be normal, but there will always be those few that would want him dead and be so crazy as to go through with it.

Edited:



But they wouldn't. Give an example of something they deemed safe with ample evidence of the contrary and your argument has merit.

No matter how many machines we use we can't fully read the human brain, there is no way you can absolutely prove someone has changed. Sometimes the person them self don't know.

[No Party Hats]

Nazereth666 posted:

So if the court system deemed jumping out of a plane without a parachute is safe would you do it? Honestly, I am all for rehabilitation of criminals but it doesn't always work. People have been released just to go right back to their old ways.

And only after you look back with hindsight do you say, oh fuck.

my god you can almost TASTE the bias coming off of your posts

[megafat]

No Party Hats posted:

i never said it was bad.

i enjoy lady gaga's music personally.

Lady Gaga is not the worst, but she got really lazy after her first few OK songs.

[No Party Hats]

Nazereth666 posted:

there is no way you can absolutely prove someone has changed.

There's no way to know they HAVEN'T

you just debunked your own argument, good job

Edited:

megafat posted:

Lady Gaga is not the worst, but she got really lazy after her first few OK songs.

i dont want this to become an opinion war but you seem cool so it's safe to share what i think

honestly her earlier work seems silly compared to the stuff on her latest album.

it's an acquired taste though.

[Nazereth666]

No Party Hats posted:

my god you can almost TASTE the bias coming off of your posts

Yeah, it's delicious.

[venn178]

Nazereth666 posted:

No matter how many machines we use we can't fully read the human brain, there is no way you can absolutely prove someone has changed. Sometimes the person them self don't know.

How the--what is-- what?

This makes zero sense. Either the person is thinking "I murdered someone. That was bad. I should not have done that and will not do it again." or they're thinking "Murder is justifiable because I wanted that person dead for [INSERT REASON HERE], I'm finally out and can do that again if I see fit."

[Ybbats]

He's probably not going to get released and then go kill another person. How does that mean we should release him? He targeted a celebrity he wanted dead and then did it. I don't think we should be encouraging the idea that if you want someone dead you can just go ahead and do it and serve a set period of time like it's some kind of price to pay.

[Vodkavia]

megafat posted:

It's not bad so much as lazily written and rushed out the door.

Some people can enjoy music you don't like, even if it is lazily written. If you dislike it so much it, you should try minimizing its impact on your life by not bringing it up when your taste in music is irrelevant.

[Nazereth666]

No Party Hats posted:

There's no way to know they HAVEN'T

you just debunked your own argument, good job

Would you stand next to a lion knowing he has been tamed so he MIGHT not attack you. Come on honestly?

[Ganerumo]

Nazereth666 posted:

No matter how many machines we use we can't fully read the human brain, there is no way you can absolutely prove someone has changed. Sometimes the person them self don't know.

You are so obviously biased it hurts to read.

Earlier you stated that you were for the rehabilitation system, then you immediately said it didn't always work. Then what makes one case valid and the other one invalid ? How is that one man less eligible for rehabilitation than any other criminal that served their time (and even did about 12 extra years in his case) ? There is no reason to keep him behind bars.

You just want the man to stay in prison because you are hating him for the murder of a man you were not even alive to know back when he was killed, and you invent petty excuses to justify your bias such as "he may try to hurt Lennon's family" or "people may try to take revenge on him" or the all-so-dumb "you never know".

Grow the fuck up.

Edited:

And stop with the absurd analogies seriously

[venn178]

Nazereth666 posted:

Would you stand next to a lion knowing he has been tamed so he MIGHT not attack you. Come on honestly?

If a lion is tamed (definition: a handler has safely said that it will not attack a person because it's tame) I would have zero problems petting a lion.

In fact I would kill for that opportunity. Lions are fucking adorable.

[Nazereth666]

Ganerumo posted:

You are so obviously biased it hurts to read.

Earlier you stated that you were for the rehabilitation system, then you immediately said it didn't always work. Then what makes one case valid and the other one invalid ? How is that one man less eligible for rehabilitation than any other criminal that served their time (and even did about 12 extra years in his case) ? There is no reason to keep him behind bars.

You just want the man to stay in prison because you are hating him for the murder of a man you were not even alive to know back when he was killed, and you invent petty excuses to justify your bias such as "he may try to hurt Lennon's family" or "people may try to take revenge on him" or the all-so-dumb "you never know".

Grow the fuck up.

Edited:

And stop with the absurd analogies seriously

I should grow up because my opinion towards someone doesn't meet yours?

Does it make you feel better that I have jury duty tomorrow? Honest to God...

[venn178]

Ybbats posted:

He's probably not going to get released and then go kill another person. How does that mean we should release him? He targeted a celebrity he wanted dead and then did it. I don't think we should be encouraging the idea that if you want someone dead you can just go ahead and do it and serve a set period of time like it's some kind of price to pay.

Because he's served more than enough time, proved that he's rehabilitated and knows right from wrong, and can once again be a member of normal, working society.

[Ybbats]

So if I want a politician/celebrity dead and have 20-30 years to kill, I can just go out and shoot them? That's good to know.