1. Post #1
    boy i sure do love it when my title doesnt fit
    LuaChobo's Avatar
    December 2009
    6,492 Posts
    Recently I got into a heated discussion about koreans or some crap and eventually the argument devolved into "Can beauty be objective?".

    In my opinion we decide how something is objective, Boxing can be scored subjectively but we created a set of rules and scoring systems for it to keep it objective.
    I feel that as horrible as it seems, we as a human race have globally created a guideline for "What is beautiful" in humans and nature, which brings it into the lines of being objective.

    In his opinion, Beauty and other things such as music cannot be viewed objectively because people differ in opinions towards said things, some like asians, some like deathcore and it's up to them to decide.

    We eventually realised that we were at the opposite sides of the argument, he gave up as he knew we would never see the others point of view.

    What do you guys think about seeing beauty as objectively or not.
    Do you think beauty can be seen as both objective and subjective?
    Or can it only be one or the other?

    (User was banned for this post ("No background information presented" - Megafan))
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    July 2005
    1,397 Posts
    In my opinion we decide how something is objective,
    Wouldn't that decision make it subjective?

    Boxing can be scored subjectively but we created a set of rules and scoring systems for it to keep it objective.
    Right, if you have certain premises and rules set in place, you can make it objective. So indeed you could also make beauty "objective" in the same way. All you have to do is make a list of things that we can deem as standards for beauty, then we can set anything against that standard and calculate a percentage of beauty. Hey presto, that'd be a pretty objective result. 72,5% beautiful here you go.

    Problem is that people would disagree with the standard, whereas people don't disagree with what constitutes a goal in football, or on how mathematics work.
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  3. Post #3
    I'M A MASSIVE FAGGOT AND LOVE COCKS
    DrBreen's Avatar
    June 2007
    4,991 Posts
    it's not objective, and will never be

    vision is a human attribute (as it is with other species), how could it be objective if we could only hear or touch?

    Then again if everyone was blind we'd find the scape goat which is 'your voice is pretty, wanna go out with me', 'ewww your voice is terrible and unsexy, you'll die alone', etc, etc, etc..

    Shallowness on the other hand is on the heart of the beholder, no matter what sensory attributes we have our atittude will remain the same, not saying blind people are assholes, Nooo, i'm talking if evolution took another course
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  4. Post #4
    The Kakistocrat's Avatar
    November 2011
    1,353 Posts
    You can't make something objective. Objective is fact, subjective is opinion. And making rules of beauty would still not make it objective, unless your rules are purely mathematical/scientific. The moment you have an individual "rate" another individual's beauty, it becomes subjective, even if they are following guidelines.
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  5. Post #5
    Jocken300's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,361 Posts
    To me, beauty is entirely subjective. Of course there are certain traits and appearances that can be objectively seen as pretty or 'hot', but when it all comes down to it it's all about preference. Some people think geeky girls/guys are attractive, others find super model types attractive.
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  6. Post #6
    I'M A MASSIVE FAGGOT AND LOVE COCKS
    DrBreen's Avatar
    June 2007
    4,991 Posts
    To me, beauty is entirely subjective. Of course there are certain traits and appearances that can be objectively seen as pretty or 'hot', but when it all comes down to it it's all about preference. Some people think geeky girls/guys are attractive, others find super model types attractive.
    Anything that is pretty is not objective to our eyes god damn it
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  7. Post #7
    Laserbeams's Avatar
    February 2010
    10,147 Posts
    Nothing can be objective. The way we perceive things is different for every man, therefor everything is subjective
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  8. Post #8
    Contains Vitamin K!
    Cabbage's Avatar
    January 2011
    7,871 Posts
    Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder, but some things have more beholders than others.

    Edited:

    fuck im high
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  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    Ganerumo's Avatar
    September 2011
    17,890 Posts
    I guess in a way you can establish a list of criteria that establish beauty in someone or something, but you can't make an objective, scientific statement of what exactly is beauty, since the definition would very likely vary a lot from one individual to another.
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  10. Post #10
    The Union Jack would look a shit ton better with a Hammer and Sickle in the middle of it
    Bobie's Avatar
    November 2007
    7,287 Posts
    no, there will never be an objective standard for beauty because beauty is a conditioned factor in society. it is entirely a psychological process and can never be defined under one single standard to amount for the whole human race
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  11. Post #11
    MyBigBoner.com
    fritzel's Avatar
    March 2009
    4,700 Posts
    Definition of beauty changes with age. Now I like mature women instead of kawaii asians.
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  12. Post #12
    matsta's Avatar
    September 2009
    347 Posts
    Nothing can be completely objective. Everything stated as a fact implies some or many presuppositions. Now, beauty is the least 'objective' or 'ruly' as I like to call those things, because there are absolutely no criteria to which we can find something beautiful or ugly. That is something you realize when you contemplate artworks with friends for long enough: It doesn't only happens that one thing beautiful to someone can seem ugly to another person, but it even happens that the same reason person A uses to justify that certain thing is ugly is used by person B to justify its beauty.
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  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    Lazor's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,253 Posts
    Nothing can be objective.
    is this not an objective statement?
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  14. Post #14
    Audio-Surfer's Avatar
    February 2008
    268 Posts
    There is no such thing as subjective, only insufficient context.
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  15. Post #15
    The Kakistocrat's Avatar
    November 2011
    1,353 Posts
    There is no such thing as subjective, only insufficient context.
    what? by that logic, all questions must have objective answers, even questions like "who is the most beautiful person in the world". Do you see how that doesn't make sense?
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  16. Post #16
    Laserbeams's Avatar
    February 2010
    10,147 Posts
    is this not an objective statement?
    No, not exactly. It's my opinion, so it's pretty subjective
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  17. Post #17
    Nothing can be objective. The way we perceive things is different for every man, therefor everything is subjective
    Is the statement "something perceives" not objective, then?
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  18. Post #18
    matsta's Avatar
    September 2009
    347 Posts
    Is the statement "something perceives" not objective, then?
    No it isn't completely objective. As i said before, everything stated as a fact implies some or many presuppositions. Those presuppositions ultimately rest on a perspective.
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  19. Post #19
    No it isn't completely objective. As i said before, everything stated as a fact implies some or many presuppositions. Those presuppositions ultimately rest on a perspective.
    Can you explain to me how that statement is not objective, then? What does it presuppose? Any perspective whatever requires something to perceive for the perspective to exist.
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  20. Post #20

    August 2012
    74 Posts
    Yeh totally. I think that is the general consensus.
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  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    TestECull's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,025 Posts
    Beauty is and always will be objective. For example, ask ten random car guys if an Aston Martin DB9 is a sexy car and 9 of the 10 will say "Yeah, sure." I'll be the tenth that says "..Eeh, not so much." and then point at an NSX instead. Or, look at the Veyron. I find that thing absolutely appallingly ugly, yet my friends think it's a pretty car.


    Looking towards a less automotive example, most people will tell you that nature is beautiful. I, however, will just shrug, mutter something about stupid trees, and then start oggling some heavy machinery instead. The same beauty most people see in a pristine chunk of woodland I see in well-engineered machinery. Or perhaps I'll look out into space. I find space to be just as beautiful, if not moreso, than any antique tractor ever could be.

    Women, also, are a good way to point out the subjectivity of beauty. A lot of guys think the girls that look like two volleyballs nailed to a fence post is hot. Others think that such a creature is hideous, preferring someone with more modest, 'normal' measurements instead. Hell there's people that thing 600LB whales are sexy.

    Nobody is wrong in any of those examples because beauty is subjective. What's beautiful to you may be hideous to me, and what I find beautiful may look like a random collection of scrap metal and explodey bits to you.
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  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    Lazor's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,253 Posts
    Beauty is and always will be objective. For example, ask ten random car guys if an Aston Martin DB9 is a sexy car and 9 of the 10 will say "Yeah, sure." I'll be the tenth that says "..Eeh, not so much." and then point at an NSX instead. Or, look at the Veyron. I find that thing absolutely appallingly ugly, yet my friends think it's a pretty car.


    Looking towards a less automotive example, most people will tell you that nature is beautiful. I, however, will just shrug, mutter something about stupid trees, and then start oggling some heavy machinery instead. The same beauty most people see in a pristine chunk of woodland I see in well-engineered machinery. Or perhaps I'll look out into space. I find space to be just as beautiful, if not moreso, than any antique tractor ever could be.

    Women, also, are a good way to point out the subjectivity of beauty. A lot of guys think the girls that look like two volleyballs nailed to a fence post is hot. Others think that such a creature is hideous, preferring someone with more modest, 'normal' measurements instead. Hell there's people that thing 600LB whales are sexy.

    Nobody is wrong in any of those examples because beauty is subjective. What's beautiful to you may be hideous to me, and what I find beautiful may look like a random collection of scrap metal and explodey bits to you.
    lol dude did you seriously find a way to dehumanize women like 4 times in one sentence?
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  23. Post #23
    Falubii's Avatar
    May 2010
    3,666 Posts
    Beauty is and always will be objective.
    Nothing is wrong in any of those examples because beauty is subjective.
    You lost me.
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