1. Post #1441
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,645 Posts
    Thanks for all the feedback guys, I'm going to work on it a little bit today to see if I can improve the panels.. it feels quite intimidating to be honest, why are we so scared of playing around with things? :p

    Does anyone have a link to blender experimental build? As U S S R mentioned github, but I can't find it on there?

  2. Post #1442

    October 2015
    327 Posts
    Thanks for all the feedback guys, I'm going to work on it a little bit today to see if I can improve the panels.. it feels quite intimidating to be honest, why are we so scared of playing around with things? :p

    Does anyone have a link to blender experimental build? As U S S R mentioned github, but I can't find it on there?
    This one has both 2.78 and 2.80

  3. Post #1443
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,645 Posts
    Cheers, I did find this on Google, just wasn't sure if github would of had a more recent build. Thanks again.

    The new version of blender is a great step up in regards to photorealism. I'd take a look at the clearcoat option on the "principled" pbr shader.


    If it wasn't made clear the new version also includes the filmic color option, which does a lot for photorealism. (after you do this, I'd play around with pushing the brightness of your lights/environment beyond 1.)


    Another big plus is the addition of a denoiser, so you won't have to render for so many hours and still end up with a noisy result.


    As far as the model is concerned, I'd experiment with adding a bevel modifier to smooth the sharp corners. You can limit its effect by "angle" so that it does not affect the entire mesh, and only the sharp edges. on top of that I'd add a subdivision surface modifier to smooth out some of the curves, which are still visibly blocky in some areas, like the side near the front.
    Do you have a tutorial for this? I'm going through ones on YouTube but there must be a problem with my mesh because I'm getting weird results:

    Sub Surface just destroys the panel:
    Here is the panel mesh:
    The bevel tool / modifier is doing nothing, maybe due to all the edges it has?

  4. Post #1444
    Gold Member
    zerosix's Avatar
    November 2010
    6,391 Posts
    the face facing the camera is what's called an ngon which means it has more than 4 sides/vertices. subsurf/subdivision is the act of taking a quad and dividing it turning it into 4 quads. in your case it simply can't do that because it's not appropriate geometry. you'd need to clean up that side to something compatible

    as en example I'm basically saying you need to turn it from this



    to this



    (trying to keep this in as simple terms as possible)

    Edited:

    BUT

    you might not even need to do this. i think what wrathofcat was saying is that some parts look a bit obviously low poly and not completely smooth. i.e here:



    you can just add geometry there by hand. no need for complicating things by making the mesh ready for subdivision.

    again, BUT

    if this is being rendered in sketchfab in a browser it's probably not worth going crazy and adding a bunch of extra geometry. the only downside of leaving it as it is now is that obviously the real product is perfectly smooth there, there's a chance it could confuse some buyers

  5. Post #1445
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,645 Posts
    the face facing the camera is what's called an ngon which means it has more than 4 sides/vertices. subsurf/subdivision is the act of taking a quad and dividing it turning it into 4 quads. in your case it simply can't do that because it's not appropriate geometry. you'd need to clean up that side to something compatible

    as en example I'm basically saying you need to turn it from this



    to this



    (trying to keep this in as simple terms as possible)

    Edited:

    BUT

    you might not even need to do this. i think what wrathofcat was saying is that some parts look a bit obviously low poly and not completely smooth. i.e here:



    you can just add geometry there by hand. no need for complicating things by making the mesh ready for subdivision.

    again, BUT

    if this is being rendered in sketchfab in a browser it's probably not worth going crazy and adding a bunch of extra geometry. the only downside of leaving it as it is now is that obviously the real product is perfectly smooth there, there's a chance it could confuse some buyers
    Yeah, the thing is, I need to get it right as I will be rendering out images from different angles to show new customers etc. I'm not too fussed about the sketchfab part because it's literally just an interactive way for us to show off all angles of our products.

    Thank you for the reply above as well. When you say add geometry, what would be the best way for me to do this?

    Here is what it looks like in edit mode:

    I added some cuts on the top using CTRL + R (Loop cuts I think?) but it's not letting me do this on the sides.

  6. Post #1446
    Still Not GLOD
    WrathOfCat's Avatar
    May 2013
    908 Posts
    to acheive that effect on the sides what you want to do is select all of the faces for that side and press i for inset.

    Edited:

    also the point of the bevel is that it shoild go before the subsurf on the modifier stack in order to create holding edges so that the subsurface doesnt just blobify the mesh, similarly to what you are doing manually now by adding loop cuts.

    Edited:

    the bevel might not be doinh anything if you used an edge split to sharpen your edges - to undo this you can go into edit mode, select all and find "remove doubles" under the w menu.

  7. Post #1447
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,645 Posts
    to acheive that effect on the sides what you want to do is select all of the faces for that side and press i for inset.

    Edited:

    also the point of the bevel is that it shoild go before the subsurf on the modifier stack in order to create holding edges so that the subsurface doesnt just blobify the mesh, similarly to what you are doing manually now by adding loop cuts.

    Edited:

    the bevel might not be doinh anything if you used an edge split to sharpen your edges - to undo this you can go into edit mode, select all and find "remove doubles" under the w menu.
    The reason I'm having trouble with the mesh is because its imported in from a SVG. I've been going through tutorials all day and because of the side panels being ngons, modifiers aren't affecting it.

  8. Post #1448
    Still Not GLOD
    WrathOfCat's Avatar
    May 2013
    908 Posts
    yeah, that'd do it. inset might be your best bet.

  9. Post #1449
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,256 Posts
    Ngons are fine as long as they are mostly convex shapes. What needs to be done to subdiv them is to make sure they have support loops as mentioned, and enough edges need to be cut to support those internal cutout shapes (the holes you have to allow you to assemble the bed in this case).

    I almost never quad cap anything. Total waste of time and can have a negative impact on edge quality. A proper inset will give perfect edges every time.

    Also blender lingo is triggering me with shortening subdivision surface to subsurf. I bet that's caused quite a few headaches when newbies are trying to figure out the difference between subsurface scattering and subdivision surfaces.

  10. Post #1450
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,645 Posts


    I don't think inset is supposed to do this? It doesn't work when the object is solid..

    I've packed it up, if anyone wants to be a really big help and check it out and let me know if it's at all possible?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qlz3hddssp...Packed.7z?dl=0

    Being a newb at this stuff doesn't help to be honest, been working on it all day

  11. Post #1451
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,256 Posts
    Don't inset so much, and make sure you're doing insets broken up by selections rather than the whole thing at once. So the outer and inner faces of the board, and then the trim around the side you should inset separately.

    The idea is to just give enough supporting geo to subdiv cleanly, as has been mentioned. Feel free to join our discord for quick help. Link is in the OP.
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  12. Post #1452
    Still Not GLOD
    WrathOfCat's Avatar
    May 2013
    908 Posts
    I was able to make the bevels work with the stipulation that I had to apply the modifier and set the faces normals "from the face" to remove the dodgy shading.

  13. Post #1453
    Gold Member
    U.S.S.R's Avatar
    December 2010
    4,217 Posts


    I don't think inset is supposed to do this? It doesn't work when the object is solid..

    I've packed it up, if anyone wants to be a really big help and check it out and let me know if it's at all possible?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qlz3hddssp...Packed.7z?dl=0

    Being a newb at this stuff doesn't help to be honest, been working on it all day
    You're never going to get inset to work on a shape like that. If you want to bevel the edges, then just ring select each edge and then use CTRL + B to manually bevel them. After looking at your mesh, the most likely reason why modifiers aren't working is because every face on your mesh is split, so Blender has zero clue what you're trying to do with beveling because it doesn't know the side and ridge of the board are supposed to be connected. N-gons will fuck up a modifier, sure, but subsurf and bevel simply won't work if your mesh isn't properly sealed.

    Edited:








    The bad topology will likely need to be fixed before you can bevel those corners.





    Edited:

    If solidifying the mesh creates lighting errors on the flat sides of the panels, then that means you need to fix your topology. Edge splitting should be a last resort.

    Edited:



    And here's a good way to set up a mesh to be inset. Split everything into neat, rectangular "quadrants." Don't have any corners with angles above 90 (they break inset operations), and minimize the amount of edges that connect the hole and the side of the mesh. You won't need to edge split anything if you do this.
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  14. Post #1454
    Gold Member
    Trekintosh's Avatar
    May 2012
    8,835 Posts
    I feel really stupid to ask this but does anyone know a quick n easy way to make relatively low poly steel latticework girders in MAYA? My main issue is I'm having trouble finding the right term to google tutorials for, I guess, but I basically want to turn simple segmented cubes into something like a tower crane, e.g.



    Trying to line up everything manually and then dealing with the resultant geometry mess when I try to stitch the meshes together is not my idea of a good time.

  15. Post #1455
    Still Not GLOD
    WrathOfCat's Avatar
    May 2013
    908 Posts
    -tutorial-
    alternatively, face weighting the faces normals will override the poor shading at no extra geo cost.
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  16. Post #1456
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,645 Posts
    You're never going to get inset to work on a shape like that. If you want to bevel the edges, then just ring select each edge and then use CTRL + B to manually bevel them. After looking at your mesh, the most likely reason why modifiers aren't working is because every face on your mesh is split, so Blender has zero clue what you're trying to do with beveling because it doesn't know the side and ridge of the board are supposed to be connected. N-gons will fuck up a modifier, sure, but subsurf and bevel simply won't work if your mesh isn't properly sealed.

    Edited:


    The bad topology will likely need to be fixed before you can bevel those corners.

    Edited:

    If solidifying the mesh creates lighting errors on the flat sides of the panels, then that means you need to fix your topology. Edge splitting should be a last resort.

    Edited:

    And here's a good way to set up a mesh to be inset. Split everything into neat, rectangular "quadrants." Don't have any corners with angles above 90 (they break inset operations), and minimize the amount of edges that connect the hole and the side of the mesh. You won't need to edge split anything if you do this.
    Thanks for taking the time to do this, I really appreciate it. I just have 1 more question and I should be good to go, how exactly did you rebuild the side faces in the last picture?

  17. Post #1457
    Gold Member
    Wickerman123's Avatar
    February 2009
    6,228 Posts
    I feel really stupid to ask this but does anyone know a quick n easy way to make relatively low poly steel latticework girders in MAYA? My main issue is I'm having trouble finding the right term to google tutorials for, I guess, but I basically want to turn simple segmented cubes into something like a tower crane, e.g.



    Trying to line up everything manually and then dealing with the resultant geometry mess when I try to stitch the meshes together is not my idea of a good time.
    If you want it to be super low poly, don't model the latice structure. Model everything as solid and just add in the lattices with an alpha map.
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  18. Post #1458
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,256 Posts
    It shouldn't be too hard to model one section at known dimensions and repeat it as needed. Just do it how it's really made.
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  19. Post #1459
    Gold Member
    Trekintosh's Avatar
    May 2012
    8,835 Posts
    It shouldn't be too hard to model one section at known dimensions and repeat it as needed. Just do it how it's really made.
    Huh. I didn't really think of that. I was thinking making the whole length and then making the trusses afterwards, but if I just make one segment and leave the ends open then mirror it, that will work perfectly! Thanks man, that helps a ton.

    Edited:

    If you want it to be super low poly, don't model the latice structure. Model everything as solid and just add in the lattices with an alpha map.
    I thought about this, but I'm trying to stylize this project as a shaded polys only thing, like early DOS 3D games, though not so early it's wireframe vectors only.

  20. Post #1460
    Gold Member
    U.S.S.R's Avatar
    December 2010
    4,217 Posts
    Thanks for taking the time to do this, I really appreciate it. I just have 1 more question and I should be good to go, how exactly did you rebuild the side faces in the last picture?










    Using insets like this does have a significant geometry cost, but if you want everything to have a realistic bevel, reworking your geometry is practically mandatory. In theory, you could just split everything into quadrants, use face weighting to fix the normals, and then bevel, but I don't feel like testing it out.
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  21. Post #1461

    September 2016
    66 Posts
    To anyone who has ZBrush, could you help me out real quick?

    I'm using the newest version of ZBrush, long overdue after using ZBrush 4.0 for many years, and my workflow for creating low-poly 3D models was always to create a high-poly sculpt in ZBrush, paint it, and then retopologise the sculpt and give it UVs in Blender.

    Then, I brought the UV unwrapped model back into ZBrush, unified it with the original sculpt, and then add multiple subdividions to it. Then I'd use the projection feature to transfer the polypaint data from the sculpt on to the subdivided mesh, and then export the UV map out of ZBrush and apply it to the Blender model.

    Sounds complicated, but it's what worked for me.

    Now, using the new version, I can't seem to do this anymore. When I do it, the parts of the low-poly mesh clipping through the sculpt kind of become part of the final projected texture, and it's actually driving me insane.

    I still have the older version of ZBrush, so if I aboslutely have to, I could just use that to polypaint all over again (because for some reason ZBrush crashes if I try to import the sculpt from the newer version of ZBrush to the older version via .GoZ and project it above three or four subdivisions), but I'd obviously much rather be able to use the new version and use my old workflow.

    Sorry if I'm not making sense. I've wasted four hours trying to get this to work.

  22. Post #1462
    Tophat Enthusiast
    Quinnjdq's Avatar
    July 2011
    3,169 Posts
    Working on some swords to get myself back in the flow of 3ds max.


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  23. Post #1463
    Gold Member
    xianlee's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,645 Posts

    Using insets like this does have a significant geometry cost, but if you want everything to have a realistic bevel, reworking your geometry is practically mandatory. In theory, you could just split everything into quadrants, use face weighting to fix the normals, and then bevel, but I don't feel like testing it out.
    Cheers, nearly completed it now. Much appreciated :).

  24. Post #1464
    WJS
    WJS's Avatar
    February 2016
    485 Posts
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  25. Post #1465
    Cyan_Husky's Avatar
    August 2007
    1,597 Posts
    To anyone who has ZBrush, could you help me out real quick?

    I'm using the newest version of ZBrush, long overdue after using ZBrush 4.0 for many years, and my workflow for creating low-poly 3D models was always to create a high-poly sculpt in ZBrush, paint it, and then retopologise the sculpt and give it UVs in Blender.

    Then, I brought the UV unwrapped model back into ZBrush, unified it with the original sculpt, and then add multiple subdividions to it. Then I'd use the projection feature to transfer the polypaint data from the sculpt on to the subdivided mesh, and then export the UV map out of ZBrush and apply it to the Blender model.

    Sounds complicated, but it's what worked for me.

    Now, using the new version, I can't seem to do this anymore. When I do it, the parts of the low-poly mesh clipping through the sculpt kind of become part of the final projected texture, and it's actually driving me insane.

    I still have the older version of ZBrush, so if I aboslutely have to, I could just use that to polypaint all over again (because for some reason ZBrush crashes if I try to import the sculpt from the newer version of ZBrush to the older version via .GoZ and project it above three or four subdivisions), but I'd obviously much rather be able to use the new version and use my old workflow.

    Sorry if I'm not making sense. I've wasted four hours trying to get this to work.
    I can't help you with that, exactly, but whenever I wanted to transfer polypaint, I'd use Xnormal so that I wouldn't have to reproject the high onto the low. If the high and low are in the correct location and the low has UVs, you can bake out the polypaint. You might give that a shot.

    I always found reprojecting to be a nightmare, so my low and high always stay separate after the retopology.