1. Post #681
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Sobotnik's Avatar
    July 2010
    21,808 Posts
    Also straight as fuck grid system, it feels so unnatural.
    that's why i tried varying the roads a bit so that they flowed around the castle, rather than the building being forced inside the box

    a lot of them are utterly redundant too, and stifle creativity

    plus i tried raising and lowering the elevation randomly too instead of having the land be completely flat

  2. Post #682
    mcgrath618's Avatar
    January 2014
    1,552 Posts
    Also straight as fuck grid system, it feels so unnatural.
    I mean this in the least offensive of ways, but you and Sob are both British. We do things differently over here in America. There are many advantages to having a grid system over having a random street layout.

    Edited:

    needs a bit more randomness and variety to it too, it feels like most of the buildings there are identical to one another
    Would you mind pointing out the buildings that look alike? I can't think of two that look remotely similar, but if this is a problem, I'll try to expand the purview of materials used.


    Also, how does a grid system stifle creativity? I understand it allows for varied building footprints but in essence it feels less creative since it is forced. It'd be cooler for someone to make a building with an odd footprint in a grid lot than if he did it to comply with the street layout.

    Furthermore, as for your comments on the flattening. Yes, spawn at the moment is a bit flat. I don't want a repeat of last time so I'm gonna try to have a variance in height to the north, east, and west. Your castle didn't really work with the varied land, as it was just one little section in the middle of a city that had all this clearly different land than the rest. Cities can have elevation changes, but they must be natural, not contrived and shoehorned in.

    You are both right in some respects, however. You will both just have to wait for more projects to come to the city to see whether or not it is still bland. That's what's great about this game, you can go back and change it later.

  3. Post #683
    Apple extraordinaire~ ♥
    Reagy's Avatar
    November 2005
    21,886 Posts
    I mean this in the least offensive of ways, but you and Sob are both British. We do things differently over here in America. There are many advantages to having a grid system over having a random street layout.
    Oh I'm perfectly aware of the advantages of the grid system and why its used, but mixing in some slight shaping wouldn't really hurt. You can still have the grid system with mild path changes.

    I think one way of maybe adding in some variety is by having the people who have lots, actually add in their own paths that connect to the main, that way any free space on the lots can be used to break up the overall bland look of the grid system while still having it.

    Some of the lots do still have a lot of unused space on them from what I've seen, spawn could also do with more trees and at least ground level variety, COCKS has a lot of flat wasted land around it, maybe throw in a pond or something behind the building or a hill, just something to break up the openness of the area, spawn is meant to be like a town or city, space would always be used unless its an actual construction site.

    Edited:

    Also someone seriously do something about those fucking Mooshrooms, they're just sat in a lot doing jackshit other than killing my framerate.

  4. Post #684
    DERAILER OF THREADS DESTROYER OF IDIOTS
    Emperor Scorpious II's Avatar
    February 2009
    33,097 Posts
    Minecraft is a square game, to be fair. Having square roads is kind of natural and easier to build.
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  5. Post #685
    mcgrath618's Avatar
    January 2014
    1,552 Posts
    Oh I'm perfectly aware of the advantages of the grid system and why its used, but mixing in some slight shaping wouldn't really hurt. You can still have the grid system with mild path changes.

    I think one way of maybe adding in some variety is by having the people who have lots, actually add in their own paths that connect to the main, that way any free space on the lots can be used to break up the overall bland look of the grid system while still having it.

    Some of the lots do still have a lot of unused space on them from what I've seen, spawn could also do with more trees and at least ground level variety, COCKS has a lot of flat wasted land around it, maybe throw in a pond or something behind the building or a hill, just something to break up the openness of the area, spawn is meant to be like a town or city, space would always be used unless its an actual construction site.

    Edited:

    Also someone seriously do something about those fucking Mooshrooms, they're just sat in a lot doing jackshit other than killing my framerate.
    I've been trying to get rid of them but no one has come to collect them
    But you are absolutely right. I will definitely be adding some variance to the road layout as the city expands. And there are a lot of modern projects that do exactly what you said; use empty space as a path between streets.
    I'm gonna try and develop something behind COCKS as soon as humanly possible. I hate that empty space. I'm just apprehensive to having people build ponds and monuments things like that because, when on the last server we ran out of space, a lot of controversy came up when things were torn down (and then someone decided to keep going and tear more things down. Yea, it was a whole thing.)

  6. Post #686
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    Sobotnik's Avatar
    July 2010
    21,808 Posts
    I mean this in the least offensive of ways, but you and Sob are both British. We do things differently over here in America. There are many advantages to having a grid system over having a random street layout.
    grid layouts are generally shit unless you've got ease of moving about in a wheeled vehicle in mind - and planned cities don't look good

    one of the biggest problems with most american cities (with a few exceptions such as boston) is that their roads are build with cars instead of people in mind, instead of having roads, plazas, and paths that people use, you instead have massive areas of land dedicated to parking or 4 lane roadways to handle car traffic

    organic street layouts are what people prefer to live and work in, and have a kind of unique character to them. they change and develop over time and record history in them. if a particular street fails or doesn't work - it gets removed and built over or shifted position. a few centuries of this leaves you with a layout that works through the process of removing failures

    Would you mind pointing out the buildings that look alike? I can't think of two that look remotely similar, but if this is a problem, I'll try to expand the purview of materials used.

    Furthermore, as for your comments on the flattening. Yes, spawn at the moment is a bit flat. I don't want a repeat of last time so I'm gonna try to have a variance in height to the north, east, and west. Your castle didn't really work with the varied land, as it was just one little section in the middle of a city that had all this clearly different land than the rest. Cities can have elevation changes, but they must be natural, not contrived and shoehorned in.

    You are both right in some respects, however. You will both just have to wait for more projects to come to the city to see whether or not it is still bland. That's what's great about this game, you can go back and change it later.
    it's not so much the materials as it is the entire design philosophy

    most of the buildings are built to face straight up onto the roads and go high up to scrape the skies. the green space/parks are all neatly bricked in and there don't really exist any plazas.

    all of the land has been flattened and all of the buildings are on the same level - making the castle was especially difficult due to the fact that since the natural land had been removed i had to try remaking it from scratch - something that is very difficult to achieve normally

    Also, how does a grid system stifle creativity? I understand it allows for varied building footprints but in essence it feels less creative since it is forced. It'd be cooler for someone to make a building with an odd footprint in a grid lot than if he did it to comply with the street layout.
    mostly because buildings within a grid are made to either fill out the plot completely or end up leaving a big chunk of it open with little idea of what to do with it. if you had the space completely open or buildings about people would work within natural boundaries that were created by organic development rather than having a massive flat grid where all of that "work" has already been done

    the designing should take the land into account, and what the builder needs it for and what they want done with it.

    there's also this which is somewhat related (i rarely see this in minecraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruin_value although i would call it antifragile architecture

  7. Post #687
    Apple extraordinaire~ ♥
    Reagy's Avatar
    November 2005
    21,886 Posts
    I've been trying to get rid of them but no one has come to collect them
    But you are absolutely right. I will definitely be adding some variance to the road layout as the city expands. And there are a lot of modern projects that do exactly what you said; use empty space as a path between streets.
    I'm gonna try and develop something behind COCKS as soon as humanly possible. I hate that empty space. I'm just apprehensive to having people build ponds and monuments things like that because, when on the last server we ran out of space, a lot of controversy came up when things were torn down (and then someone decided to keep going and tear more things down. Yea, it was a whole thing.)
    Does anyone even know who "reserved" that lot anyway? Because they've been there since the server started as far as I'm aware and that lot hasn't been touched at all.

    I'd be half considered to move them out of the city or just outright slaughter them and re-open the lot if no one is actually touching it.

  8. Post #688
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    Sobotnik's Avatar
    July 2010
    21,808 Posts
    Minecraft is a square game, to be fair. Having square roads is kind of natural and easier to build.
    making cobble cubes is easy and natural for a lot of players too, but they don't look good

    making organic roads is as easy as grabbing a shovel and running the easiest path while holding right click with a shovel - you create a natural road instead of ploughing through everything

  9. Post #689
    DERAILER OF THREADS DESTROYER OF IDIOTS
    Emperor Scorpious II's Avatar
    February 2009
    33,097 Posts
    Why not put it to a vote, grid style or organic style

  10. Post #690
    Apple extraordinaire~ ♥
    Reagy's Avatar
    November 2005
    21,886 Posts
    Mean if that mooshroom lot isn't going to be touched I'd very much like to turn it into a park and plaza with a fountain, it'd make the castle fit in a bit better with its surroundings.
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  11. Post #691
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    Sobotnik's Avatar
    July 2010
    21,808 Posts
    Why not put it to a vote, grid style or organic style
    i'll find an area of land to put some real antifragile architecture

    i gotta have skin in the game, capish?

  12. Post #692
    Apple extraordinaire~ ♥
    Reagy's Avatar
    November 2005
    21,886 Posts
    Just gone through the whole thread, no one has actually claimed that mooshroom lot in here.
    Grath I'd say it might be time to re-open it.

  13. Post #693
    Gold Member
    1 Duck's Avatar
    January 2007
    1,077 Posts
    I was thinking of housing some of the mooshrooms in my building once complete, I could probably store some outback if you want them moved. (I wasn't the one who put them where they currently are - not sure who was).

    I was considering, if allowed and it worked out OK, to curve the pavement in front of my building (quartz tower) to add some variety. Or instead add some trees or something behind COCKS unless Fulcrum has anything planned for that space.

    I like the grid system, but agree that some variety here and there could help bring some character to the city. Build some odd shaped buildings which have pavement follow around it. Don't have all the roads/pavements line up (I know this is the American system and makes sense logistically).

    Looking again at the COCKS building. The pavement behind could and maybe should have tucked right up against the back of the building and it would help make the overall building and space look better. In fact, could we just do that? Move the pavement closer to COCKS building, and I'll make some intro park or something leading into my building. Thinking out loud now so this may not work...

    Edited:

    I've moved some of the mooshrooms to behind my building. This is what is probably killing your framerate:

  14. Post #694
    mcgrath618's Avatar
    January 2014
    1,552 Posts
    Does anyone even know who "reserved" that lot anyway? Because they've been there since the server started as far as I'm aware and that lot hasn't been touched at all.

    I'd be half considered to move them out of the city or just outright slaughter them and re-open the lot if no one is actually touching it.
    I reserved it to do exactly as you said, to make a park.
    But the dAMNED COWS WONT MOVE

    Edited:

    You can have it if you want, I just ask that you continue the theme of Spawn parks (stone brick stairs surrounding the perimeter)
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  15. Post #695

    December 2016
    418 Posts
    grid layouts are generally shit unless you've got ease of moving about in a wheeled vehicle in mind - and planned cities don't look good

    one of the biggest problems with most american cities (with a few exceptions such as boston) is that their roads are build with cars instead of people in mind, instead of having roads, plazas, and paths that people use, you instead have massive areas of land dedicated to parking or 4 lane roadways to handle car traffic

    organic street layouts are what people prefer to live and work in, and have a kind of unique character to them. they change and develop over time and record history in them. if a particular street fails or doesn't work - it gets removed and built over or shifted position. a few centuries of this leaves you with a layout that works through the process of removing failures



    it's not so much the materials as it is the entire design philosophy

    most of the buildings are built to face straight up onto the roads and go high up to scrape the skies. the green space/parks are all neatly bricked in and there don't really exist any plazas.

    all of the land has been flattened and all of the buildings are on the same level - making the castle was especially difficult due to the fact that since the natural land had been removed i had to try remaking it from scratch - something that is very difficult to achieve normally



    mostly because buildings within a grid are made to either fill out the plot completely or end up leaving a big chunk of it open with little idea of what to do with it. if you had the space completely open or buildings about people would work within natural boundaries that were created by organic development rather than having a massive flat grid where all of that "work" has already been done

    the designing should take the land into account, and what the builder needs it for and what they want done with it.

    there's also this which is somewhat related (i rarely see this in minecraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruin_value although i would call it antifragile architecture
    As a New Urbanist, I'm not inclined to disagree with you, but... Don't break the grid in spawn. Or at least, try to get permission before you do. Also, CONTEXT is massively important. Almost as important as * a e s t h e t i c *.

    If you're looking for a place to break with convention and do weird stuff, Usonia's always open. We don't even have roads, let alone a grid.
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  16. Post #696
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    Sobotnik's Avatar
    July 2010
    21,808 Posts
    As a New Urbanist, I'm not inclined to disagree with you, but... Don't break the grid in spawn. If you're looking for a place to break with convention and do weird stuff, Usonia's always open. We don't even have roads, let alone a grid.
    new urbanism is slightly better but fundamentally is still gay
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  17. Post #697

    December 2016
    418 Posts
    new urbanism is slightly better but fundamentally is still gay
    Oh well piss off then.
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  18. Post #698
    Apple extraordinaire~ ♥
    Reagy's Avatar
    November 2005
    21,886 Posts
    I think the topic should be dropped now because as much as I should act on the above two, I don't really want to.
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  19. Post #699
    mcgrath618's Avatar
    January 2014
    1,552 Posts
    The park is all yours, Reagy

  20. Post #700
    Fulsam's Avatar
    May 2008
    732 Posts
    I have canceled the Fulco Towers completely.

    Whoever wants that land to the east of Fulco can have it.
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  21. Post #701
    Apple extraordinaire~ ♥
    Reagy's Avatar
    November 2005
    21,886 Posts


    Scumbag rail generator is up in the Kyo basement, use if you want.
    This can also be used to generate carpet if you really want it to.

  22. Post #702

    December 2016
    418 Posts
    Time to democratize the rail industry. Thanks Reagy.

  23. Post #703
    Apple extraordinaire~ ♥
    Reagy's Avatar
    November 2005
    21,886 Posts
    Time to democratize the rail industry. Thanks Reagy.
    Crashing the rail industry one track at a time (I got sick of mining for iron).

    Edited:



    Mooshroom lot turned into Twin Waters Parks.

    Edited:



    Spawn has a really nice little green band down the middle now.

    Edited:

    Also just noticed both the end and nether got iso view back on dynmap, any chance about overworld coming back or is it still a space issue.
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  24. Post #704
    Jeopardized's Avatar
    November 2013
    79 Posts
    This is what I use for making map art. It's great!

  25. Post #705
    Gold Member
    Milkdairy's Avatar
    July 2011
    3,716 Posts
    Anyone mind pointing out where that is on the map? I have a fetish for building railways.

    Edited:

    Also isometric view on the overworld would be super nice :x

  26. Post #706
    Gold Member
    derpyllama's Avatar
    February 2014
    177 Posts
    Two grey shulker boxes seem to have disappeared from my inventory somehow. I think this may be related to the server restart rollback bug, but idk.
    Although I didn't have anything useful in them, so it's not much of an issue.
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  27. Post #707
    Apple extraordinaire~ ♥
    Reagy's Avatar
    November 2005
    21,886 Posts
    Anyone mind pointing out where that is on the map? I have a fetish for building railways.

    Edited:

    Also isometric view on the overworld would be super nice :x
    Its the building right next to the spawn point, look for the big ass KYO on the side.

    Edited:



    This one.
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