1. Post #41
    Gold Member
    MrJazzy's Avatar
    June 2009
    16,871 Posts
    If this is really the reason why muslims become radicalized then it would be even more important not to let anyone of them in.
    So is this your solution? Is this what your point of view boils down to? It's obvious that islamophobia didn't begin this whole wave of islamic terrorism, it's a complex issue and you can't pin it on neither islamophobes nor muslims. What is obvious - or atleast it should be - is that persecuting muslims doesn't help and there are countless other issues with doing so.
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  2. Post #42
    ImUnstoppable's Avatar
    March 2015
    162 Posts
    To the people here saying this is the result of millions of muslims living in Europe, what is your solution? Mass rounding up and deportation? Some kind of Madagascar Plan?

    If its truly the result of muslims merely existing, how do you plan to stop terrorism? Theres billions of muslims on this planet, and theres millions of Muslims who've been living in Europe for decades. Should we just deport them all or kill them all or what? Because both of those are very fucking unrealistic.



    EDIT:

    Just realized the post above says the same thing, but I am looking for a genuine answer here
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  3. Post #43
    Gold Member
    RearAdmiral's Avatar
    May 2010
    6,050 Posts
    Curious to see how many of these arrests ended in convictions
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  4. Post #44
    Dennab
    October 2016
    596 Posts
    So is this your solution? Is this what your point of view boils down to? It's obvious that islamophobia didn't begin this whole wave of islamic terrorism, it's a complex issue and you can't pin it on neither islamophobes nor muslims. What is obvious - or atleast it should be - is that persecuting muslims doesn't help and there are countless other issues with doing so.
    This is not a solution. There are many different kinds of muslim groups. Some more moderate, some more fundamentalistic. Most terrorist incidents are happening in the middle east between these groups. How do you differentiate between the good ones and the bad ones?

    My solution would be the reformation of Islam.Write a new Quran, like Christianity did with the Testament. Make it more fitting for a modern society with regards to human rights. But this change has to come from the inside of Islam. Outside influence won't be accepted by those who faithful in their believes. The goal would be to give terrorist leaders less fuel to indoctrinate people.

    Additionally, increase the education of people in the middle east. This will not only lead to less extremism, it will also lead to better living conditions, wealth, and all in all to a better country. People will be much more hesitant to die for a cause if they are wealthy and happy.

    It is a complex issue that needs a lot stuff done to solve it.

  5. Post #45
    Gold Member
    MrJazzy's Avatar
    June 2009
    16,871 Posts
    This is not a solution. There are many different kinds of muslim groups. Some more moderate, some more fundamentalistic. Most terrorist incidents are happening in the middle east between these groups. How do you differentiate between the good ones and the bad ones?

    My solution would be the reformation of Islam.Write a new Quran, like Christianity did with the Testament. Make it more fitting for a modern society with regards to human rights. But this change has to come from the inside of Islam. Outside influence won't be accepted by those who faithful in their believes. The goal would be to give terrorist leaders less fuel to indoctrinate people.

    Additionally, increase the education of people in the middle east. This will not only lead to less extremism, it will also lead to better living conditions, wealth, and all in all to a better country. People will be much more hesitant to die for a cause if they are wealthy and happy.

    It is a complex issue that needs a lot stuff done to solve it.
    All points I agree with, now go talk about that instead of being caught saying things like "then it would be even more important not to let anyone of them in." which I'm trying real hard to find if I'm misunderstanding what you exactly mean.

  6. Post #46
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Sobotnik's Avatar
    July 2010
    22,680 Posts
    My solution would be the reformation of Islam.Write a new Quran, like Christianity did with the Testament.
    this would cause violent civil wars and kill millions of people. the last time a "reformation" of religion happened it led to half of europe having bloody wars of religion and genocides that killed a third of the population of germany and led to permanent sectarian divisions
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  7. Post #47
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    16,575 Posts
    This is not a solution. There are many different kinds of muslim groups. Some more moderate, some more fundamentalistic. Most terrorist incidents are happening in the middle east between these groups. How do you differentiate between the good ones and the bad ones?

    My solution would be the reformation of Islam.Write a new Quran, like Christianity did with the Testament. Make it more fitting for a modern society with regards to human rights. But this change has to come from the inside of Islam. Outside influence won't be accepted by those who faithful in their believes. The goal would be to give terrorist leaders less fuel to indoctrinate people.

    Additionally, increase the education of people in the middle east. This will not only lead to less extremism, it will also lead to better living conditions, wealth, and all in all to a better country. People will be much more hesitant to die for a cause if they are wealthy and happy.

    It is a complex issue that needs a lot stuff done to solve it.
    Anyone who tried to write a new Quran would be branded an apostate and told to fuck off.

    You clearly don't understand religion, you can't just do that, particularly not in the modern age where it's a lot harder to convincingly pretend you were inspired by god.

    Never mind that it isn't even directly the Quran that is responsible for this, You'll notice that Shia muslims are never responsible for terror in the west despite following the Quran. It's all the wacky hadiths that promote this kind of behaviour.
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  8. Post #48

    March 2017
    165 Posts
    The real solution is peace in the Middle East.

  9. Post #49
    Contains Vitamin K!
    Cabbage's Avatar
    January 2011
    4,856 Posts
    Well, obviously. With the amount of anti-islamic racist rhetoric people like Trump and Marine LP keep spewing it's no fucking wonder terrorist recruitment numbers have gone up.
    Yep, being mean to muslims turns them into terrorists. Concurrently, terrorism has nothing to do with Islam

    Secondly, 'anti-islamic rhetoric' or at least anti-refugee rhetoric in Poland has made it the one of the few countries in Europe left without any terror attacks or problems with islamic refugees, I wonder how that works

  10. Post #50
    I'M A SHAAARK!
    Lambeth's Avatar
    October 2009
    16,274 Posts
    Yep, being mean to muslims turns them into terrorists. Concurrently, terrorism has nothing to do with Islam

    Secondly, 'anti-islamic rhetoric' or at least anti-refugee rhetoric in Poland has made it the one of the few countries in Europe left without any terror attacks or problems with islamic refugees, I wonder how that works
    I think the lack of terror attacks in poland has more to do with the fact that it's not really a world power, more than the fact they have few muslims.

    And to the implication that terrorism is somehow unique to Islam, have you heard of something called The Troubles?
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  11. Post #51
    Gold Member
    Araknid's Avatar
    July 2010
    13,308 Posts
    I think the lack of terror attacks in poland has more to do with the fact that it's not really a world power, more than the fact they have few muslims.

    And to the implication that terrorism is somehow unique to Islam, have you heard of something called The Troubles?
    Wasn't aware that Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and Norway were world powers.
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  12. Post #52
    Contains Vitamin K!
    Cabbage's Avatar
    January 2011
    4,856 Posts
    I think the lack of terror attacks in poland has more to do with the fact that it's not really a world power, more than the fact they have few muslims.

    And to the implication that terrorism is somehow unique to Islam, have you heard of something called The Troubles?
    There have been attacks in Belgium, Italy, Austria, Sweden, Turkey. Not world powers. This is also not to mention all the attacks in India, Cambodia, Myanmar.

    Also the 'implication' that terrorism is unique to islam is something you decided to derive from my post yourself, so i'm not responding to it.

  13. Post #53
    I'M A SHAAARK!
    Lambeth's Avatar
    October 2009
    16,274 Posts
    There have been attacks in Belgium, Italy, Austria, Sweden, Turkey. Not world powers. This is also not to mention all the attacks in India, Cambodia, Myanmar.
    Wasn't aware that Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and Norway were world powers.
    You got me there.

    Also the 'implication' that terrorism is unique to islam is something you decided to derive from my post yourself, so i'm not responding to it.
    It's really hard to read intent on the internet nowadays, sorry.

  14. Post #54
    Gold Member
    CrumbleShake's Avatar
    June 2010
    3,078 Posts
    I don't see why it's controversial to suggest that marginalising people makes them far more susceptible to brainwashing or radicalisation
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  15. Post #55
    Omesh's Avatar
    January 2012
    152 Posts
    I don't see why it's controversial to suggest that marginalising people makes them far more susceptible to brainwashing or radicalisation
    It's just another way to put responsibility on white people for everything bad in our world. It's Ramadan now and, for example, there's a terror attack or more in Afghanistan every day. Not to mention other countries. It's just a bit annoying to blame yourself because I don't see how terror attacks in the rest of the world could have been caused by marginalization (even more so marginalization by us. For us they can come from elsewhere to terrorize and indoctrinate here), especially when they are the majority. But there's no arguing with a radical leftist for whom unequal privilege is always the fault, so the discourse inevitably will go more extreme.

  16. Post #56
    Crooky14's Avatar
    February 2016
    526 Posts
    It's just another way to put responsibility on white people for everything bad in our world. It's Ramadan now and, for example, there's a terror attack or more in Afghanistan every day. Not to mention other countries. It's just a bit annoying to blame yourself because I don't see how terror attacks in the rest of the world could have been caused by marginalization (even more so marginalization by us, they can come from elsewhere to terrorize and indoctrinate here), especially when they are the majority. But there's no arguing with a radical leftist for whom unequal privilege is always the fault, so the discourse inevitably will go more extreme.
    Its not just shifting the blame when its a true fact that marginalization can contribute to radicalization. There's no single thing to blame, therefore you have to look at all the things which could help radicalize an individual. No one is saying the terrorist is not responsible for his actions, but you have to look at the science of it all and how for example a middle class English teenager can one day decide to join a terrorist group in East Africa. If you think people are just saying it to shift the blame your forgetting that some people are actually taking a more intelligent viewpoint because its not so black and white as you think

  17. Post #57
    Gold Member
    mdeceiver79's Avatar
    March 2012
    7,397 Posts
    It's just another way to put responsibility on white people for everything bad in our world. It's Ramadan now and, for example, there's a terror attack or more in Afghanistan every day. Not to mention other countries. It's just a bit annoying to blame yourself because I don't see how terror attacks in the rest of the world could have been caused by marginalization (even more so marginalization by us. For us they can come from elsewhere to terrorize and indoctrinate here), especially when they are the majority.
    Bin Laden had different motivations than the Lee Rigby killer, suggesting that Terrorists in the Uk and Afghanstan have the same motivations is incorrect.

    How do you explain extremism in the UK?

    But there's no arguing with a radical leftist for whom unequal privilege is always the fault, so the discourse inevitably will go more extreme.
    We're not even talking about unequal privilege, where do you get this from? IMO you've not read thread and just want to have a lil rant about dem liebruls.

    We are talking about discrimination marginalising people.

    Marginalised people are alienated from the "common" identity (ie British, Mancunian) and instead will turn to other identities leaving a gap for baddies to crawl in. That's not a liberal arguments. If anything its a conservative argument.
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  18. Post #58
    Omesh's Avatar
    January 2012
    152 Posts
    Its not just shifting the blame when its a true fact that marginalization can contribute to radicalization. There's no single thing to blame, therefore you have to look at all the things which could help radicalize an individual. No one is saying the terrorist is not responsible for his actions, but you have to look at the science of it all and how for example a middle class English teenager can one day decide to join a terrorist group in East Africa. If you think people are just saying it to shift the blame your forgetting that some people are actually taking a more intelligent viewpoint because its not so black and white as you think
    Every time they cry about the backlash that never happens. I think you're placing far too much weight on marginalization. How much would it take for an average non-muslim to flip. I think the threshold would be higher when for muslims, for example, it only takes a drawing. How do you marginalize them with a drawing when you can take the piss out of everyone else. That's beyond marginalization that you went to preferential treatment to avoid that.

    Bin Laden had different motivations than the Lee Rigby killer, suggesting that Terrorists in the Uk and Afghanstan have the same motivations is incorrect.

    How do you explain extremism in the UK?



    We're not even talking about unequal privilege, where do you get this from? IMO you've not read thread and just want to have a lil rant about dem liebruls.

    We are talking about discrimination marginalising people.

    Marginalised people are alienated from the "common" identity (ie British, Mancunian) and instead will turn to other identities leaving a gap for baddies to crawl in. That's not a liberal arguments. If anything its a conservative argument.
    How do you know they don't have the same motivations. Read the upper part first. I mentioned the rest of the world because there's no marginalization there, in some cases they spread there by force, so how can marginalization be so important for you, as if they have no doctrine to follow.

    I know second generations+ are more radical. It's laughable when people say immigrants didn't do it. Well, their intake leads directly to that anyway. Unequal privilege leftists was my answer to him why I see it controversial myself and I think for many others too.

  19. Post #59
    Crooky14's Avatar
    February 2016
    526 Posts
    Every time they cry about the backlash that never happens. I think you're placing far too much weight on marginalization. How much would it take for an average non-muslim to flip. I think the threshold would be higher when for muslims, for example, it only takes a drawing. How do you marginalize them with a drawing when you can take the piss out of everyone else. That's beyond marginalization that you went to preferential treatment to avoid that.
    So your suggesting that all Muslims would react in the same way as the Charlie Hebdo attackers did. I don't think you understand what being susceptible to radicalization is. The Charlie Hebdo attackers were radicalized way before they committed that attack, its not like someone just flipped a switch in their minds and they became terrorists.

  20. Post #60
    Omesh's Avatar
    January 2012
    152 Posts
    So your suggesting that all Muslims would react in the same way as the Charlie Hebdo attackers did. I don't think you understand what being susceptible to radicalization is. The Charlie Hebdo attackers were radicalized way before they committed that attack, its not like someone just flipped a switch in their minds and they became terrorists.
    You're bringing up all muslims. I think though that almost all would disagree and westerners cave aka give preferential treatment aka submit, as the name of Islam goes.

  21. Post #61
    Crooky14's Avatar
    February 2016
    526 Posts
    You're bringing up all muslims. I think though that almost all would disagree and westerners cave aka give preferential treatment aka submit, as the name of Islam goes.
    You suggested that the drawing of the prophet is what prompted thowe muslims to commit the charlie hebdo attacks, suggesting that it was the drawing which made them become terrorists. I'm telling you that those attackers were radicalized way before they committed that attack for them to want to engage in that kind of violent behaviour.
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  22. Post #62
    Gold Member
    mdeceiver79's Avatar
    March 2012
    7,397 Posts
    How do you know they don't have the same motivations.
    Because they live totally different lives and have totally different experiences.

    Read the upper part first. I mentioned the rest of the world because there's no marginalization there, in some cases they spread there by force, so how can marginalization be so important for you, as if they have no doctrine to follow.
    Marginalisation is how people are susceptible to listen to the radical preacher (or go on the bad website) in the first place. They then pick up the "doctrine" from there. It's an effect acknowledge by left and right (brietbart did an article on it), marginalisation makes people more open to radicalisation, not just islamic but neo nazi, suicide cults etc.

    I know second generations+ are more radical. It's laughable when people say immigrants didn't do it.
    Why do you think that is?

    Well, their intake leads directly to that anyway.
    huh?

    Unequal privilege leftists
    Wha?

    Unequal privilege leftists was my answer to him why I see it controversial myself and I think for many others too.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...enated-at-home
    https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/re...n%20eBrief.pdf
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4340315.stm
    https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/si...jan2016_en.pdf
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a6805976.html

    and just to avoid cries of ""((((((FAKE NEWS)))))"""
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014...radical-islam/

    And to demonstrate its not just muslims:
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sily-been-isis
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...o-their-poiso/
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...years-ago.html


    (I think I got the meaning of your post, it wasn't easy to understand what you were referring to at times)

    Edited:

    You're bringing up all muslims. I think though that almost all would disagree and westerners cave aka give preferential treatment aka submit, as the name of Islam goes.
    Do you actually know any muslims?
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  23. Post #63
    Omesh's Avatar
    January 2012
    152 Posts
    You suggested that the drawing of the prophet is what prompted thowe muslims to commit the charlie hebdo attacks, suggesting that it was the drawing which made them become terrorists. I'm telling you that those attackers were radicalized way before they committed that attack for them to want to engage in that kind of violent behaviour.
    I saw that. Anyway, I'm not bringing up Charlie Hebdo specifically, but the drawing of their prophet being being a low threshold "marginalization" for them. As for the source of the radicalization, well, I'm obviously arguing against marginalization being the defining factor. They obviously take their religion more seriously than westerners, that's where I'm putting most of the blame. Of course, the hate preachers help spread it, but the thing is that they are not committing apostasy by basing violence on Hadiths and etc.

    Because they live totally different lives and have totally different experiences.
    They still have the same doctrine. Are you going to willfully ignore that.

    Marginalisation is how people are susceptible to listen to the radical preacher (or go on the bad website) in the first place. They then pick up the "doctrine" from there. It's an effect acknowledge by left and right (brietbart did an article on it), marginalisation makes people more open to radicalisation, not just islamic but neo nazi, suicide cults etc.
    They're so marginalized in India when they're the ones barging in.

    Have to leave. Will reply to you later.

    Why do you think that is?
    It's well accepted even by ""liberal"" sources.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/24/op...gen/index.html
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wh...rticle/2618291
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/w...s&emc=rss&_r=0

    and so on. Your own link says so.

    https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/si...jan2016_en.pdf

    To have a second generation you have to have a first generation. I thought that's self evident.

    So I never was denying marginalization here. I just think the main cause is the toxic political message in Islam. The whole point is that I wouldn't take any responsibility for their actions via my supposed marginalization.

    The part about not just muslims. They barely do anything, so I don't see the relevance. Remember Dylann Roof!1 Meanwhile dozens of islamic terror attacks happen since the last white guy loses his shit.

    They ignore everything and just focus on the new bourgeois, white people.

  24. Post #64
    Yep, being mean to muslims turns them into terrorists. Concurrently, terrorism has nothing to do with Islam

    Secondly, 'anti-islamic rhetoric' or at least anti-refugee rhetoric in Poland has made it the one of the few countries in Europe left without any terror attacks or problems with islamic refugees, I wonder how that works
    oh fucking sweet, all we need to do to beat terrorism is become horrible people

    get it done lads

    alternatively: terrorists don't give a shit about poland because poland has had very little involvement with foreign policy and the middle east in the last 20 years other than being a member of NATO
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  25. Post #65
    Crooky14's Avatar
    February 2016
    526 Posts
    I saw that. Anyway, I'm not bringing up Charlie Hebdo specifically, but the drawing of their prophet being being a low threshold "marginalization" for them. As for the source of the radicalization, well, I'm obviously arguing against marginalization being the defining factor. They obviously take their religion more seriously than westerners, that's where I'm putting most of the blame. Of course, the hate preachers help spread it, but the thing is that they are not committing apostasy by basing violence on Hadiths and etc.
    And yet most Muslims would not support the drawing of the prophet but they would not react in the same way. And extremism exists across all religions, therefore people justifying violence in response to criticism of their religion is not exclusive to Muslims. No one is saying marginalization is the main factor, but it is a contributing factor, therefore it wont stop the spread of Islamic terror and radicaliation

  26. Post #66
    Omesh's Avatar
    January 2012
    152 Posts
    And yet most Muslims would not support the drawing of the prophet but they would not react in the same way. And extremism exists across all religions, therefore people justifying violence in response to criticism of their religion is not exclusive to Muslims. No one is saying marginalization is the main factor, but it is a contributing factor, therefore it wont stop the spread of Islamic terror and radicaliation
    They only do more in a year than all other religions combined in far longer.

    oh fucking sweet, all we need to do to beat terrorism is become horrible people

    get it done lads

    alternatively: terrorists don't give a shit about poland because poland has had very little involvement with foreign policy and the middle east in the last 20 years other than being a member of NATO
    Horrible people by what criteria? Not taking them in and giving them charity? If Poland does not deal with them then the migrants don't lose anything because it was not theirs to take to begin with.

    Poland only has to not take them in. You on the other hand can enjoy your multicultural country with terror attacks every week and subsequent government power grabs, but please don't force the mess onto others that had nothing to do with your white man guilt for colonies and etc.

  27. Post #67
    Gold Member
    MrJazzy's Avatar
    June 2009
    16,871 Posts
    They only do more in a year than all other religions combined in far longer.
    "They" have also been in a shit situation (war, poverty) that has never been helped by western powers who have been hugely involved for atleast 100 years. What is with this generalization of "islam and other religions" ?? It's silly, we live in a mostly secular society here in the west.
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  28. Post #68
    Horrible people by what criteria? Not taking them in and giving them charity? If Poland does not deal with them then the migrants don't lose anything because it was not theirs to take to begin with.

    Poland only has to not take them in. You on the other hand can enjoy your multicultural country with terror attacks every week and subsequent government power grabs, but please don't force the mess onto others that had nothing to do with your white man guilt for colonies and etc.
    horrible people by the merit of having a prelevant, anti-refugee rhetoric, where refugees are people escaping war torn areas

    i'll happily take my country suffering "terror attacks every week" and "power grabs" over a country that think its OK to give unfair treatment to people who make up 1.6-1.8 billion of the world, any day of the week

    don't know what the fuck you mean by white man guilt for colonies, extra hilarious to me because my father's half of my family are refugees from Poland you donkey
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  29. Post #69
    Omesh's Avatar
    January 2012
    152 Posts
    "They" have also been in a shit situation (war, poverty) that has never been helped by western powers who have been hugely involved for atleast 100 years. What is with this generalization of "islam and other religions" ?? It's silly, we live in a mostly secular society here in the west.
    Sweden owes them nothing.

    horrible people by the merit of having a prelevant, anti-refugee rhetoric, where refugees are people escaping war torn areas

    i'll happily take my country suffering "terror attacks every week" and "power grabs" over a country that think its OK to give unfair treatment to people who make up 1.6-1.8 billion of the world, any day of the week

    don't know what the fuck you mean by white man guilt for colonies, extra hilarious to me because my father's half of my family are refugees from Poland you donkey
    Yeah I'm sure the non stop stream of black migrants disembarking from Libya are fleeing war in Syria too.

    Fantastic, suffer then. Funny that you put the terror attacks every week in quotes. Must have not been watching the news. You know I don't know why I bother. It used to anger me at first, but now new terror attacks in the west only makes me laugh. You obviously want it by what you said here. Just don't push the cancer on me and we'll be fine.

  30. Post #70
    Crooky14's Avatar
    February 2016
    526 Posts
    Sweden owes them nothing.



    Yeah I'm sure the non stop stream of black migrants disembarking from Libya are fleeing war in Syria too.

    Fantastic, suffer then. Funny that you put the terror attacks every week in quotes. Must have not been watching the news.
    Some people feel obliged to help suffering men women and children in need, and good on them. Stopping immigration won't stop people from being radicalized in your country. When you mention Libya you do realise that there is a civil war there which the west have been involved in

  31. Post #71
    Sweden owes them nothing.



    Yeah I'm sure the non stop stream of black migrants disembarking from Libya are fleeing war in Syria too.

    Fantastic, suffer then. Funny that you put the terror attacks every week in quotes. Must have not been watching the news.
    i'm putting in quotes because i'm quoting you, that's what they're for

    and if the UK took your attitude to refugees in 1947, my family, me, and a whole lot of other people in the UK wouldn't have the lives we have today, educate yourself
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  32. Post #72
    Omesh's Avatar
    January 2012
    152 Posts
    Some people feel obliged to help suffering men women and children in need, and good on them. Stopping immigration won't stop people from being radicalized in your country. When you mention Libya you do realise that there is a civil war there which the west have been involved in
    Libya is arab.

  33. Post #73
    Crooky14's Avatar
    February 2016
    526 Posts
    Libya is arab.
    And?

    Edited:

    What does that even mean

  34. Post #74
    Gold Member
    MrJazzy's Avatar
    June 2009
    16,871 Posts
    Sweden owes them nothing.
    What does this fuckin have to do with anything? It's a humanitarian issue, not a fucking children's game.

  35. Post #75
    Omesh's Avatar
    January 2012
    152 Posts
    And?

    Edited:

    What does that even mean
    Learn to read. It's a place where migrants from all over Africa pass, so I don't see why you mention the civil war there.

    What does this fuckin have to do with anything? It's a humanitarian issue, not a fucking children's game.
    Nothing. Take them, if you so wish, but I don't see why people get outraged when Poland does not want to repay (you yourself said West was involved in making these places shit) what it did not do.

  36. Post #76
    Gold Member
    MrJazzy's Avatar
    June 2009
    16,871 Posts
    Nothing. Take them, if you so wish, but I don't see why people get outraged when Poland does not want to repay (you yourself said West was involved in making these places shit) what it did not do.
    Then what are they doing in the EU if they're not willing to go through with promises they've made?

    Edited:

    It isn't just wrong on a moral level, this is a legal and diplomatic issue.

  37. Post #77
    Crooky14's Avatar
    February 2016
    526 Posts
    Learn to read. It's a place where migrants from all over Africa pass, so I don't see why you mention the civil war there.
    You could be a little clearer next time as its hard to grasp your point. And you do not know why these people are fleeing their country anyway, if we are talking about Africa then there is plenty troubles there including civil war, violence, poverty, disease. And let me re state that halting immigration will not prevent terror attacks as a lot of the terror attacks done recently were committed by home grown terrorists. And the civil war in Libya is exactly why they dont want to stay there

  38. Post #78
    Gold Member
    mdeceiver79's Avatar
    March 2012
    7,397 Posts
    Would be interesting to see, were Omesh a refugee, if he would choose to stay in North Africa/Syria rather than travel to Europe.
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  39. Post #79
    Gold Member
    _Axel's Avatar
    September 2009
    6,879 Posts
    Wait maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Your argument is that the number of deaths caused by terrorism is minuscule compared to things like cancer and traffic accidents so we should be concentrating on those instead. That the attention you give to a problem should be proportional to the death toll? Is that correct?
    To some extent, yes. If your argument for caring immensely more about an issue that causes a relatively minuscule amount of deaths than about an issue that deeply affects a sizeable portion of a population is that you "want to save innocent people's lives", then you're an hypocrite.
    Society can function pretty good even if 40% of deaths are cancer and heart disease related. If you had 40% of deaths terrorism related it would be a fucking warzone.
    Are we even remotely close to that point? Does the current amount of terror attacks directly threatens the stability of our society because of the lethal risk it presents?
    I'm pretty sure a lot more instability is caused by the fearmongering peddled by the media and politicians alike than by the attacks themselves that wouldn't do that much damage to society themselves if nobody talked about them.
    When 5 people die in one year on a certain neighborhood due to cancer it will not be treated the same way as if someone brutally murdered 5 people in one year on that certain neighborhood. Stop equating those things.
    Actually 5 people dying of cancer the same year in a specific location would be rather concerning, and might warrant evacuating the neighborhood to find a possible cause. I think both situations would warrant important scrutiny.
    I never said a word about laws, I don't know what you are going after here. I simply disagreed that terrorism is a minuscule problem because a lot more people die due to cancer.
    So you're okay with maintaining the status quo as far as anti-terror measures are concerned? If that's the case that's at least something we do agree on.

  40. Post #80
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Sobotnik's Avatar
    July 2010
    22,680 Posts
    Actually 5 people dying of cancer the same year in a specific location would be rather concerning, and might warrant evacuating the neighborhood to find a possible cause. I think both situations would warrant important scrutiny.
    you're ignoring his point that 5 deaths in a neighbourhood (whatever the causes may be, such as from cancer) are random and happen anyways as a natural ongoing thing. it matches previous yearly numbers of deaths

    the difference with terror attacks is that while they are (relatively) rare, they have the potential to kill anywhere between a couple to thousands of people. it's called a fat-tailed distribution my friend.

    unless something like a new drug or nuclear waste disposal goes horribly wrong, cancer is unlikely to suddenly spike up and kill thousands of extra people in a year. terrorism is capable of suddenly and with no warning to take a lot of lives and cause a great deal of harm - often in unexpected places. the typical measures taken to control it thereafter (like airplane security or funding the NSA) are almost useless and barely reduce terror attacks while at the same time soaking up vast quantities of resources and manpower that could be used elsewhere

    of course there's a much better way of dealing with terrorists than typing "thoughts and prayers are with the victims" every few weeks but it's not politically convenient