1. Post #881
    Gold Member
    Firgof Umbra's Avatar
    January 2005
    1,924 Posts
    This isn't hypothetical issue.
    My own personal concern is that the Neo-Nazis are looking for a Hitler to gather around (not a literal Hitler - just someone sympathetic to their cause who has the means and ways to make what they want allowable, meanwhile serving as fodder for their recruitment). There's none better to gather 'round presently than Trump himself while he turns a very public blind eye to the specific violence in this present event and gives them room to 'hawk their wares'.

    If the President doesn't tell them to simmer down, they might think they've got someone in the Oval Office who not only is willing to endorse their violence - but is willing to cover it up and play the blame game for them. A group without a firm leader isn't particularly horrible no matter their cause.

    A group with a powerful leader, however, should be rightly feared.
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  2. Post #882
    FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SHITPOST IN POLIDICKS
    Raidyr's Avatar
    February 2007
    32,575 Posts
    The US had a massive denazification program of German POWs during and after the war that was massively successful. If you think nazis are just stonewalling assholes that will never ever give up their beliefs, you're not just wrong, but extremely ignorant of history.
    You can't really compare what happened with German POW's to modern Nazis, just like you can't argue that modern Nazis should be treated as enemy combatants because we fought the Nazi's in WW2. This also ignores the fact that Nazism and its related nationalist/fascist ideologies have flourished since WW2 ended.
    Maybe the flippant comment about an innocuous video game being censored was a rebuttal to the notion that widespread censorship is a good idea.

    By the way, are you going to ever point out where I said that this was a left wing issue only?
    Who said anything about widespread? As far as I understand it the laws against Nazism in Germany are incredibly specific.
    i do wonder how much the internet has had an effect on the rise of extremist beliefs
    It's cliche, but the_donald is an easy and accessible way to see how immersing yourself in an ideological echo chamber can push someone towards more extremist views.
    I'm not terrified of nazis in America, nor should anyone else.

    They are an extreme minority in the US. They will not be taking over the country or imposing concentration camps any time soon.

    If you honest to god belief that you have a real chance of being hunted down and killed by these assholes, you should really look at the rates of these things like in Virginia happening on a daily basis throughout the country.
    I think the fear is that for the first time in a long time people feel like the ideas pushed by white supremacists/Nazis are finding some sort of institutional grip, especially when you have people like Gorka and Bannon advising the President of the United States, who himself seems somewhat ambivalent to whats happening in Virginia, who is supported by Republican Congressmen who might themselves not be too radical but will give radicals power if they see an advantage in it.
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  3. Post #883
    Gold Member
    -nesto-'s Avatar
    September 2007
    6,187 Posts
    The US had a massive denazification program of German POWs during and after the war that was massively successful. If you think nazis are just stonewalling assholes that will never ever give up their beliefs, you're not just wrong, but extremely ignorant of history.
    How many of those were actual members of the Nazi party(Gestapo, SS etc) and not Wehrmacht grunts who were simply fighting for Germany?
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  4. Post #884
    FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SHITPOST IN POLIDICKS
    Raidyr's Avatar
    February 2007
    32,575 Posts
    My own personal concern is that the Neo-Nazis are looking for a Hitler to gather around (not a literal Hitler - just someone sympathetic to their cause who has the means and ways to make what they want allowable, meanwhile serving as fodder for their recruitment). There's none better to gather 'round presently than Trump himself while he turns a very public blind eye to the specific violence in this present event and gives them room to 'hawk their wares'.

    If the President doesn't tell them to simmer down, they might think they've got someone in the Oval Office who not only is willing to endorse their violence - but is willing to cover it up and play the blame game for them. A group without a firm leader isn't particularly horrible no matter their cause.

    A group with a powerful leader, however, should be rightly feared.
    Would like to take this moment to remind people of the fact that one of Trump's chief advisors doesn't believe white supremacist or lone wolf attacks are a big problem, and recently suggested that an attack on a Mosque had to have been a liberal false flag with absolutely no evidence.
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  5. Post #885
    Gold Member
    TraderRager's Avatar
    October 2010
    2,874 Posts
    The US had a massive denazification program of German POWs during and after the war that was massively successful. If you think nazis are just stonewalling assholes that will never ever give up their beliefs, you're not just wrong, but extremely ignorant of history.
    If you can't process the difference between German citizens being forced to fight for the Nazi regime at gunpoint (and surrendering when given the chance so they would end up at the camp in the first place) and people who willingly and emphatically support Nazi ideals of their own accord there is a serious lapse in your thinking.
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  6. Post #886
    Mud
    Gold Member
    Mud's Avatar
    April 2010
    4,276 Posts
    I'm not terrified of nazis in America, nor should anyone else.

    They are an extreme minority in the US. They will not be taking over the country or imposing concentration camps any time soon.

    If you honest to god belief that you have a real chance of being hunted down and killed by these assholes, you should really look at the rates of these things like in Virginia happening on a daily basis throughout the country.
    Except, as shown right now, we let them grow more and more until it lead to this. These ideas are slowly gaining more and more popularity. Is it not concerning that we're having nazi marches at all at this point? Like high profile ones.
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  7. Post #887
    Gold Member
    Firgof Umbra's Avatar
    January 2005
    1,924 Posts
    Except, as shown right now, we let them grow more and more until it lead to this.
    And, though this is as of yet unsubstantiated, if Trump really wanted to give the Neo Nazis a voice to recruit across all of America, well, look no further than Trump TV. There's no better platform I can think of for it (especially if it becomes the unholy juggernaut it's aiming to be by merging with/acquiring Sinclair).
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  8. Post #888
    Steins;Gate SUCKS
    Dave_Parker's Avatar
    October 2008
    5,576 Posts
    What an amazing outcome. I can't believe Judas actually saved you.
    Really? Cause Judas is the first persons' post history I'd go through given that ultimatum..
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  9. Post #889
    Gold Member
    Solomon's Avatar
    January 2012
    3,554 Posts
    Except, as shown right now, we let them grow more and more until it lead to this. These ideas are slowly gaining more and more popularity. Is it not concerning that we're having nazi marches at all at this point? Like high profile ones.
    everything is fine, stay home, dont buy a gun, dont lock your doors everything will be fine wont it theres nothing to be concerned about remember violence only begets violence
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  10. Post #890
    Ask me about
    the stick
    up my ass
    Alice3173's Avatar
    April 2010
    11,523 Posts
    When people on your side are advocating violence against those who commit violence than no, you're not.

    I know a thing or two about violence, my title isn't there for nothing, and I know that sometimes violence is the only answer. But you are taking individual incidents, just as the right likes to take individual instances in the case of antifa, and applying that to the entire group. Sure it's a shit group, but I don't think every white supremacists and neo-nazi wakes up every morning thinking "I'm going to go kill some black people today" because you know, they're normal people.
    It's kinda difficult to take your post seriously when your first sentence does exactly what you spend the next paragraph chewing people out for doing.
    I mean I get what he's saying. You got people like Daryl Davis, a black dude who became friends with KKK members and got the Grand Dragon of the KKK to step down because exposure to challenging viewpoints made his belief system disintegrate slowly over time. Civilized discourse is great! The more you openly talk, the more exposed to information people are, the more their shitty ideologies will crumble. Education will kill this backwards thinking.

    But I am better than a murderer. Make no mistake; when we are talking about Nazis in this thread, we are talking about the people who went out today seeking to kill. We are talking about people seeking to harm racial minorities. We are talking about terrorists. Everyone in this thread is probably better than these people. These are not people looking for good-faith discourse, these are people who want to hurt.
    There's also a world of difference between something like Daryl Davis' situation and that of many others. Those people have to be open to some form of discourse to begin with and it has to be the correct kind of discourse because one person's discourse may not work with a given person. And there's also the part where a lot of people are very reluctant to ever admit they were wrong on anything so even if it might work that's working against you as well.
    The problem I've had with the "Just debate with them" argument is that you reach the point eventually (or almost immediately) where neither party can agree on basic facts of a given situation. If you think all the data that opposes the views you perpetuate is made up by the New World Order then how is anyone possibly going to convince you otherwise? I've had this problem with birthers and 9/11 truthers, and I'm sure it's even harder to interact with hardline nationalists/fascists/Nazi's et al because not only do they categorically reject opposing data, but their ideology encompasses their entire life and possibly the lives of their descendants.
    People have said the same thing quite frequently in the past few months about Trump supporters as well. You can't have a discourse with many of them because there's no starting point.
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  11. Post #891
    RedDagger's Avatar
    March 2016
    198 Posts
    How many of those were actual members of the Nazi party(Gestapo, SS etc) and not Wehrmacht grunts who were simply fighting for Germany?
    Are you really pulling the "Clean Wehrmacht" shtick?
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  12. Post #892
    Retinazer's Avatar
    July 2017
    47 Posts
    Has anything major developed recently or are things starting to wind down?

  13. Post #893
    Gold Member
    -nesto-'s Avatar
    September 2007
    6,187 Posts
    Are you really pulling the "Clean Wehrmacht" shtick?
    Uh no. I imagine the forced Czech conscripts were prolly eager to disavow the Nazis. I'm curious as to who actually converted. There were Wehrmacht complicit in the genocide and Wehrmacht that helped shelter jews, Poles, slavs etc. Not everyone fighting for Germany was a Nazi.
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  14. Post #894
    Ona
    insert sausage
    Ona's Avatar
    June 2013
    1,150 Posts
    So I only just woke up to this (living down on the other side of the earth over here) and all I can say is... Fucking wow. I'm not sure how this has progressed recently, the last I saw was that there were some counter-protests marching, but that the people doing the counter-protests were the people who ended up needing to hide their faces.

    I seriously, seriously do not understand the logic behind this sort of ideology. Any creed that judges a person based on anything other than their actions and decisions as a human being (in other words; judging people for things that have no baring on them as a person; race, sexuality, gender identity, ect) is, to my eyes, flawed.

    Like... Seriously. There is zero reason for people to hate eachother with such fiery passion over shit like that. It's a losing fight no matter what: Hating people for being, say, black, will not magically stop them from being black people. Hating somebody for their sexuality is pointless, too, because that shit has zero baring on anybody outside their own romantic partnerships. And so on and so on...

    Every racist, homophobe, sexist, ableist and neo-nazi who bases their hatred on things people have no control over, can't change, and which doesn't affect them as a person, is nothing more than a violent scumbag looking for flimsy reasons to justify their lust for unfounded bloodshed. The only way these people will ever be happy is if the targets of their hatred cease to exist. They're like petulant children demanding the impossible and acting defensive and offended when people point out to them just how immature and stupid they're being.

    Regardless, one more thing to add to my growing list of "Reasons to never, ever visit the United States" list... I hope this was resolved peacefully, the fact people died and were injured over this mess just makes it all the worse. Nobody should die because of idiot ideals like that.
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  15. Post #895
    Gold Member
    01271's Avatar
    October 2009
    6,776 Posts
    If they're a proud nazi, I do not think any of htem will have a fear of debating anyone opposing them.

    They'll spew a lot of bullshit and a lot of fallacies in their arguments, but if you stay cool and just take them on point by point, you'll at least make little cracks into their beliefs.
    When you "debate" them attack their beliefs and mostly the reason they hold their beliefs directly not their arguments or else you'll still just be fighting emotions except you'll slip and they'll be inoculated against you.

  16. Post #896
    Shirt.'s Avatar
    June 2014
    552 Posts
    I find it strange that the mods speak more wisdom in this thread than many of the posters here and yet no one seems to be taking them seriously. Hats off to you mods.
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  17. Post #897

    April 2017
    86 Posts
    I find it strange that the mods speak more wisdom in this thread than many of the posters here and yet no one seems to be taking them seriously. Hats off to you mods.
    Mods don't wear hats,you know that.

    (User was banned for this post ("Offtopic/Shitpost" - Reagy))
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  18. Post #898
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    May 2006
    993 Posts
    I find it strange that the mods speak more wisdom in this thread than many of the posters here and yet no one seems to be taking them seriously. Hats off to you mods.
    Yes, such wise kiddie-gloves-playing with Nazis! Not even here can you escape Nazi-coddling authorities.

    (User was permabanned for this post ("Shitpost - Bravo you blew your last chance" - Reagy))
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  19. Post #899
    Certified Witch - Cutie Department
    Wii60's Avatar
    April 2007
    21,504 Posts
    US Gov did a video for nazi speech stuff back in the 40s right after WWII

    p.applicable for the whole free speech nazi argument in the thread

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  20. Post #900
    Gold Member
    TraderRager's Avatar
    October 2010
    2,874 Posts
    US Gov did a video for nazi speech stuff back in the 40s right after WWII

    p.applicable for the whole free speech nazi argument in the thread

    They should still have the right to free speech, the point is that people need to be brave enough to stand up to division. You don't destroy flawed ideas by censoring them.
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  21. Post #901
    Muggi's Avatar
    September 2007
    824 Posts
    While reading the thread I just so happend to be listening to some very appropriate metal;

    Pages of the past
    How long will they last?
    A lie lost in the legacy of fools left us this parody unsurpassed
    Pages of the past
    How long will they last?
    The shadow of the Swastika by fools' fears now for far too long has been cast


    Kinda terrible that nazism is still doing so well in this day and age...
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  22. Post #902
    Shirt.'s Avatar
    June 2014
    552 Posts
    US Gov did a video for nazi speech stuff back in the 40s right after WWII

    p.applicable for the whole free speech nazi argument in the thread

    Video
    This should be shown in classrooms why is it not shown in classrooms.
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  23. Post #903
    Gold Member
    TraderRager's Avatar
    October 2010
    2,874 Posts
    This should be shown in classrooms why is it not shown in classrooms.
    Because teaching children how people control them through division is antithetical to the interest of those in power.
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  24. Post #904
    Gold Member
    WitheredGryphon's Avatar
    July 2011
    2,538 Posts
    When people on your side are advocating violence against those who commit violence than no, you're not.

    I know a thing or two about violence, my title isn't there for nothing, and I know that sometimes violence is the only answer. But you are taking individual incidents, just as the right likes to take individual instances in the case of antifa, and applying that to the entire group. Sure it's a shit group, but I don't think every white supremacists and neo-nazi wakes up every morning thinking "I'm going to go kill some black people today" because you know, they're normal people.
    Oh boy, a closet Nazi apologist! Time to tear open the history books and unravel why your way of thinking is, to be blunt, advocating ethnic genocide and to explain why I chuckle every time I read a post like yours trying to defend them.

    First, let's take a step back to the roots of Nazism, which you so boldly (hah) claimed earlier that would show us it wasn't all about ethnic hatred...Oh wait...except it was. Nazism stemmed from the German Workers' Party founded in 1919 was the baseline for what would become the Nazi Party, and do you know what the core focus of that group was? Antisemitism and German Pride. Off to a great start, the literal foundation of what these White Nationalists march for is genocide and deeply rooted in anti-semitism and white supremacy.

    Ah but don't stop yet, here's where it gets fun! Two years later, every White Nationalists' favorite person joined the parade: Adolf Hitler! And oh yes, he was just as racist and anti-Semitic back then, as he would be twenty years down the line. Hitler was the one to actually re-name this German Workers' Party to the Nationalist Socialist German Workers’ Party, or Nazi Party for short. Yes, the leader, and founder of this ideology was Adolf Hitler. The man literally responsible for the ethnic genocide of millions of people.

    You're probably thinking "oh, but the Nazi Party was originally just peaceful protesting, right?" You couldn't be more wrong! Literally two years after the Nazi Party was moved under Hitler's oversight, he staged a coup d'etat in order to spark a national revolution against the government. He was convicted and then later wrote a book that every White Nationalist has on their bookshelf: Mein Kampf. Hitler then soon rapidly rebuilt the Nazi Party after his release and formed the very first concentration camp within just seven years of its creation! Phenomenal!

    So yes, this ideology you so highly regard and think people should spend more time looking into is no more than what it appears on the surface. It's racist. It's anti-Semitic. It's advocating ethnic genocide. It's literally everything that this planet does not need, and there's no place on Earth for people who follow an ideology that tries to justify all of those things.

    Ah, but it's funny, because you already resorted to the "well nobody will listen to what I have to say so I'll just not respond at all" even though people are clearly responding soundly to what you're saying. So that leaves me with one last thing to say, as SGTNAPALM so eloquently said, I'm also calmly and tacfully saying you are in fact full of shit.
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  25. Post #905
    Gold Member
    Sir Whoopsalot's Avatar
    August 2010
    22,203 Posts
    Stop pretending you've all got some sort of moral high ground and that you're better than "those people", because you're all not.
    Can't believe I just woke up to see a mod saying that I am in fact not better than a group of people who think genocide of inferior people is awesome.

    You know what? You can spout bullshit like that when I'm actually enough of a disgusting human being to advocate the removal of those filthy kikes and niggers to make this country white and great again. I am better than those people. Period.
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  26. Post #906
    myon's Avatar
    February 2011
    12,723 Posts
    I know a thing or two about violence, my title isn't there for nothing
    good job marine, but I'm afraid there's a lot of people from other walks of life who also know a lot about violence, either committed or committed against. you're not special in that regard.

    but I don't think every white supremacists and neo-nazi wakes up every morning thinking "I'm going to go kill some black people today" because you know, they're normal people.
    anyone who believes that the white race is superior to others are NOT normal. not sure why you consider them normal for holding objectively abhorrent views.

    But whatever man, I guess I honestly don't give a shit to argue through this shit show of a thread anyway.
    mods are normal members but with additional duties, I get it, but you're setting a terrible example, if anyone else did the same as you right now they would be dangerously close to a drive-by ban

    you dipped your toe into it and took a stance, at the very least you can fucking see it through instead of pussying out
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  27. Post #907
    benten80's Avatar
    January 2014
    53 Posts
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  28. Post #908
    I am the Asian Ed Sheeran Rabbit - My sister
    gokiyono's Avatar
    June 2012
    4,836 Posts
    anyone who believes that the white race is superior to others are NOT normal. not sure why you consider them normal for holding objectively abhorrent views.
    Not only that, but killing people is a huge part of the Nazi ideals. Sure they might not wake up every morning thinking that, but it's at the core of their ideology (emphasis on the last part).
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  29. Post #909
    Wizards Court's Avatar
    November 2012
    2,496 Posts
    http://www.theroot.com/white-suprema...lot-1797790092



    https://twitter.com/zdroberts/status/896519908795854848

    An unidentified group of white supremacists in Charlottesville, Va., attacked and beat a black man with poles in a parking garage.

    The photo above, which was taken and posted to Twitter by Zach D. Roberts, a writer and photographer with Nation of Change, captures the violence that occurred during Saturday’s “Unite the Right” white supremacist rally.

    As you will notice, there were no police around to help the man being attacked, and although the victim hasn’t been identified, the incident was one of many similar attacks on black people posted to social media.
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  30. Post #910
    Gold Member
    Araknid's Avatar
    July 2010
    13,282 Posts
    Wow a relatively common American muscle car shares similarities with the exact same model of car!

    Bottom pic doesn't even have stripes, come on man
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  31. Post #911
    Boy, who's surprised to see a photo like that appearing so soon after this one?


    The President should immediately condemn this in unequivocal terms. If he doesn't, condemn him. Especially if he pulls the "both sides are being violent" bullshit without evidence.
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  32. Post #912
    Dennab
    June 2013
    1,317 Posts
    Boy, who's surprised to see a photo like that appearing so soon after this one?


    The President should immediately condemn this in unequivocal terms. If he doesn't, condemn him. Especially if he pulls the "both sides are being violent" bullshit without evidence.
    I had some fool try to convince me that these idiots were doing a "roman salute", not a nazi one. All of these people are so deluded it is physically painful
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  33. Post #913
    Gold Member
    Cyanlime's Avatar
    August 2011
    1,300 Posts
    I had some fool try to convince me that these idiots were doing a "roman salute", not a nazi one. All of these people are so deluded it is physically painful
    They knew damn well what the salute means, fascists delight in arguing in bad faith.
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  34. Post #914
    Gold Member

    August 2006
    14,786 Posts
    Can't believe I just woke up to see a mod saying that I am in fact not better than a group of people who think genocide of inferior people is awesome.

    You know what? You can spout bullshit like that when I'm actually enough of a disgusting human being to advocate the removal of those filthy kikes and niggers to make this country white and great again. I am better than those people. Period.
    But are you better than a marine?
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  35. Post #915
    Gold Member
    The bird Man's Avatar
    September 2011
    5,721 Posts
    Not even the same headlights..
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  36. Post #916
    Gold Member
    Araknid's Avatar
    July 2010
    13,282 Posts
    I'd like to see what these peoples grandparents would think

    What a disgrace.
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  37. Post #917
    Moderator
    Mezzokoko's Avatar
    July 2013
    1,187 Posts
    The ban on bold text is lifted, don't start spamming it now though or taking the piss.
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  38. Post #918
    Gold Member
    rampageturke 2's Avatar
    September 2010
    11,215 Posts
    I'd like to see what these peoples grandparents would think

    What a disgrace.
    Are you expecting that to stop them lol?
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  39. Post #919
    Gold Member
    SevenBillion's Avatar
    January 2012
    861 Posts
    Absolutely deplorable and unacceptable in every possible way. These people need to be sent to prison.
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  40. Post #920
    BlackMageMari's Avatar
    July 2016
    4,710 Posts
    I'm getting to the point where I'm finding having a pacifist stance is unjustifiable in terms of recent events. While I still don't want violence spread I think the beliefs of Nazis are so awfully violent they have already struck the first blow - especially when there are Nazis in the White House.

    I don't know. I am just glad I do not have to consider that in light of what is happening in my own country.

    But it is a terrifying feeling to know you are safe, but you are powerless to ensure that others are safe in other countries.
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