1. Post #1
    Gold Member
    AugustBurnsRed's Avatar
    May 2009
    6,052 Posts
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...dicare-for-all

    Sanders has no illusions about the bill’s fate in a Republican-controlled Congress, where it has little chance of passing. But he says the time has arrived to have a debate he believes is fundamental: is healthcare a right or a privilege in America?

    Sanders will formally unveil the bill at a press conference on Wednesday, with the backing of nearly a third of the Democratic caucus in the Senate – a record level of support for a bill he introduced just four years ago with only one signature, his own.

    The Sanders plan would radically reform the American healthcare system, transitioning it over the course of four years to a federally administered insurance program. The new system would be underwritten by an increase in taxes.
    During the first year of the program, the eligibility age for the Medicare program would drop to 55, and all Americans under 18 would be added to the program. The eligibility age would gradually decrease until the fourth year, when everyone would receive a “universal Medicare card”.

    Sanders said of the plan: “You’re going to the same private doctor that you went to. You’re going to go to the same hospital that you went to. The only difference is instead of having a Blue Cross Blue Shield [insurance] card – and having to argue with your insurance company – you’re going to have a Medicare For All card. That’s it.”
    If I understood the article he's going to bring it to the floor this afternoon.
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  2. Post #2
    AnnieOakley's Avatar
    June 2013
    2,345 Posts
    It'll be interesting to see who votes against this and what it does to their careers.
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  3. Post #3
    I don't see why an optional government funded basic health insurance plan wouldn't work.

    For all those people who prefer private insurance, they have the option of opting out and saving the government some money.
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  4. Post #4
    Bob The Knob's Avatar
    September 2008
    1,344 Posts
    It'll be interesting to see who votes against this and what it does to their careers.
    It won't come up for a vote in the GOP-controlled Senate

    Edited:

    That said, it's incresingly looking like support for singlepayer will be a minimum requirement for the 2020 Dem nominee
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    evilweazel's Avatar
    June 2009
    12,589 Posts
    I don't see why an optional government funded basic health insurance plan wouldn't work.

    For all those people who prefer private insurance, they have the option of opting out and saving the government some money.
    Usual explanation is summed up as this method not providing enough funding to cover all that are on it.

    Gov't funded healthcare needs a pretty wide tax base to be viable, from what I've read. In a country with 300+ Million people that only gets more true.

  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    S31-Syntax's Avatar
    October 2007
    11,144 Posts
    Usual explanation is summed up as this method not providing enough funding to cover all that are on it.

    Gov't funded healthcare needs a pretty wide tax base to be viable, from what I've read. In a country with 300+ Million people that only gets more true.
    Considering we still budget more annually than any other country on the planet to healthcare, there is no financial reason why this can't work. Re-allocate what is being used. I will gladly pay the tax to support it, it just needs to fucking happen.
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  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    Thom12255's Avatar
    January 2009
    8,717 Posts
    I don't see why an optional government funded basic health insurance plan wouldn't work.

    For all those people who prefer private insurance, they have the option of opting out and saving the government some money.
    Because it would bankrupt insurance companies slowly as everyone realises the government plan is cheaper and similiar if not better standard for money. It's purely about profits for middle-men.
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  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    Im Crimson's Avatar
    December 2005
    6,685 Posts
    I don't see why an optional government funded basic health insurance plan wouldn't work.

    For all those people who prefer private insurance, they have the option of opting out and saving the government some money.
    Won't work if the taxes used to fund this would be opt-out for those with other options.
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  9. Post #9
    DERAILER OF THREADS DESTROYER OF IDIOTS
    Emperor Scorpious II's Avatar
    February 2009
    34,788 Posts
    With the GOP looking to axe the ACA, I doubt this will even get to the debate floor. I don't see what the point is to introducing this, even "if it's just to talk about it".
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  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    evilweazel's Avatar
    June 2009
    12,589 Posts
    With the GOP looking to axe the ACA, I doubt this will even get to the debate floor. I don't see what the point is to introducing this, even "if it's just to talk about it".
    The more discussion about it the more likely it is to end up on the majority of dem. platforms in 2020, I'd reckon.
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  11. Post #11
    asdfghjkl;
    Funion's Avatar
    October 2008
    3,006 Posts
    With the GOP looking to axe the ACA, I doubt this will even get to the debate floor. I don't see what the point is to introducing this, even "if it's just to talk about it".
    The same reason major movevents like MLK fighting for the then-unpopular idea of civil rights, it gets the ball rolling and someone has to start fighting for the right things in this fucked up system.
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  12. Post #12
    Gold Member
    evilweazel's Avatar
    June 2009
    12,589 Posts
    Considering we still budget more annually than any other country on the planet to healthcare, there is no financial reason why this can't work. Re-allocate what is being used. I will gladly pay the tax to support it, it just needs to fucking happen.
    I'm just saying that's the reason people are usually for a universal healthcare system in earnest as opposed to an opt in/out system.

  13. Post #13
    DERAILER OF THREADS DESTROYER OF IDIOTS
    Emperor Scorpious II's Avatar
    February 2009
    34,788 Posts
    The more discussion about it the more likely it is to end up on the majority of dem. platforms in 2020, I'd reckon.
    Party platforms are pointless. The party does not hold any of their members to stick to its list of ideals. This goes true for both parties.
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  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    TestECull's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,787 Posts
    Won't work if the taxes used to fund this would be opt-out for those with other options.
    I'm sure ripping funding out of bullshit agencies that only serve to erode our civil liberties while giving us nothing in retuen would significantly help. TSA, NSA are two big ones I'd love to see mugged to pay for singlepayer healthcare.
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  15. Post #15

    Frosty ❄️ Member

    FlakTheMighty's Avatar
    July 2010
    12,749 Posts
    Considering we still budget more annually than any other country on the planet to healthcare, there is no financial reason why this can't work. Re-allocate what is being used. I will gladly pay the tax to support it, it just needs to fucking happen.
    I live in one of the States with the lowest tax rate in the country and the amount of "No new taxes!" signs I'm seeing regarding raising taxes to fix our shitty roads leads me to believe a ridiculous amount of people don't actually understand what taxes do and just think it's "taking away their money"
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  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    343N's Avatar
    December 2008
    8,433 Posts
    here in ausland we have the ability to get private health insurance, but also having a single-payer healthcare system too, so the private health insurance option IS THERE, but if you're poor (or don't care for more health insurance), no worries, we gotchya covered! seems like a great system that works for both people who want better healthcare than what the government offers, and people who have no money

  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    _Axel's Avatar
    September 2009
    7,219 Posts
    I don't see why an optional government funded basic health insurance plan wouldn't work.

    For all those people who prefer private insurance, they have the option of opting out and saving the government some money.
    But then all the richer people take private insurances instead and public healthcare end up underfunded because only poor people support poor people.
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  18. Post #18
    Bob The Knob's Avatar
    September 2008
    1,344 Posts
    Is there any country which actually straight up bans private healthcare?

  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    _Axel's Avatar
    September 2009
    7,219 Posts
    Is there any country which actually straight up bans private healthcare?
    Probably not, but many countries tax people the same regardless of whether they subscribe to private healthcare or not. Opting out of public healthcare isn't exactly an option.

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,638 Posts
    bernie wins again

  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    Zezibesh's Avatar
    May 2008
    20,566 Posts
    Is there any country which actually straight up bans private healthcare?
    north korea and cuba I guess
    but cuba has pretty decent public healthcare considering their economy anyway

  22. Post #22
    27X
    Rantasaurus Rex
    27X's Avatar
    July 2010
    14,069 Posts
    Because it would bankrupt insurance companies slowly as everyone realises the government plan is cheaper and similiar if not better standard for money. It's purely about profits for middle-men.
    And not a single tear will be shed. Legalized extortion is just that.
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    zupadupazupadude's Avatar
    April 2009
    3,052 Posts
    A system in which you can choose between private and public does not seem like a good idea. Solidarity is needed in a universal healthcare system to make it cheaper for everyone.

    Edited:

    if you pay for the public system either way it won't be a problem however obv
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  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    AJ10017's Avatar
    June 2012
    2,291 Posts
    Usual explanation is summed up as this method not providing enough funding to cover all that are on it.

    Gov't funded healthcare needs a pretty wide tax base to be viable, from what I've read. In a country with 300+ Million people that only gets more true.
    I'd happily pay more Medicare tax out of my paycheck for universal healthcare instead of $200-400/month for insurance that will fight to fuck me over
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  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    Sableye's Avatar
    October 2009
    22,322 Posts
    I don't see why an optional government funded basic health insurance plan wouldn't work.

    For all those people who prefer private insurance, they have the option of opting out and saving the government some money.
    republicans are all for more choices until one of the choices is government.

    Edited:

    A system in which you can choose between private and public does not seem like a good idea. Solidarity is needed in a universal healthcare system to make it cheaper for everyone.

    Edited:

    if you pay for the public system either way it won't be a problem however obv
    we already have this in the US. Most people on medicare take out supplimental insurance that is a few steps above basic medicare, like elderly care, ect ect. private insurance in the US would go that way with a medicare for all plan, and actually the cost would come down because private insurance wouldn't need to cover some things then. or we do an all or nothing model like social security where you either are on medicare as insurance and you pay more, or you aren't and you still pay your regular medicare taxes
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  26. Post #26
    Here's the role private insurance has in a universal health care system, because it's how it works in Canada:

    Private insurance is supplemental benefits that cover what the government does not. For example, I do not have private insurance right now. If I go to a hospital, I don't have to pay a cent for the doctors, injections, IVs, surgeries, or any other aspect of my care.

    But I do have to pay if I want a private or semi-private room. I do have to pay for my prescrptions. I have to pay for eye care. I have to pay for dental. I never got braces because my parents couldn't afford it or didn't think it was important and now my teeth are all fucked up and several are turned almost sideways, because we didn't have private insurance. Private coverage can cover all of these things, over and above the basic costs of an ER visit.
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  27. Post #27
    I love 1911's and Ruger
    Cyke Lon bee's Avatar
    October 2015
    3,629 Posts
    It'll be interesting to see who votes against this and what it does to their careers.
    Who will vote against it? Everyone. What will it do to their careers? Nothing.
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  28. Post #28
    Jim Morrison's Avatar
    October 2015
    446 Posts
    Who will vote against it? Everyone. What will it do to their careers? Nothing.
    Uhh? In the past couple days alone a dozen senators have cosponsored Bernie's bill because of the mounting public pressure. They realize their seats are in jeopardy if they don't do it. Any Democrat savvy enough to feel the pulse of the American people will vote for it if they want to have any shot at their continuing political career. Considering there's no chance it passes a Republican legislature it's free brownie points for the Democrats.

    Edited:

    With the GOP looking to axe the ACA, I doubt this will even get to the debate floor. I don't see what the point is to introducing this, even "if it's just to talk about it".
    This is a really twisted perspective, man. Universal healthcare is polling at 60% approval and you're saying our politicians shouldn't be pushing for it?
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  29. Post #29
    ultimate poster
    Itachi_Crow's Avatar
    November 2007
    13,093 Posts
    God.

    If you can make one good thing happen for this year, let it be this.

    Cmon, Sanders.
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  30. Post #30
    Wow!👏Great moves! 👍Keep it up!😁
    J!NX's Avatar
    February 2006
    46,088 Posts
    does it include dental

    because that and you know... everything that exists is yet another thing republican plans don't have
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  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Sableye's Avatar
    October 2009
    22,322 Posts
    Who will vote against it? Everyone. What will it do to their careers? Nothing.
    think of it like those 60 or so votes to repeal obamacare, except we have an actual plan with an actual bill and doesn't instantly destroy the healthcare of tens of millions of people

  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    Mr. Someguy's Avatar
    March 2006
    25,212 Posts
    But I do have to pay if I want a private or semi-private room. I do have to pay for my prescrptions. I have to pay for eye care. I have to pay for dental.
    It always struck me as really odd how vision and dental are arbitrarily separated from the rest of healthcare. Imagine if you had to pay for a stomach doctor or a bone doctor or something like that.
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  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    cis.joshb's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,132 Posts
    I'm sure ripping funding out of bullshit agencies that only serve to erode our civil liberties while giving us nothing in retuen would significantly help. TSA, NSA are two big ones I'd love to see mugged to pay for singlepayer healthcare.
    ripping funding out of abusive agencies doesn't cause them magically become less abusive.
    the prison system is rampant with abuse, but cutting funding to it would just cause further abusive cost cutting measures like twice-a-day meals and tent-prisons.
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  34. Post #34
    BF
    BF's Avatar
    October 2016
    1,393 Posts
    Considering we still budget more annually than any other country on the planet to healthcare, there is no financial reason why this can't work. Re-allocate what is being used. I will gladly pay the tax to support it, it just needs to fucking happen.
    The problem with healthcare spending in the United States isn't on the insurance side, it's on the service side. Eg because fee-for-service is a thing in the United States (whereas most other countries have something like bundled payments as standard), it means that Doctors are encouraged to provide unnecessary tests, over-treatment etc, because that gets them more money. Also, the US is seen by pharmaceutical companies as a place to make up for the losses that they make when selling their drugs for cheaper overseas.

    Sure, the US could have universal healthcare. But if it does not address those service-side issues, it's going to be really damn expensive to run. Especially because there would be little to no exposure to costs, for the patients.
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  35. Post #35
    The problem with healthcare spending in the United States isn't on the insurance side, it's on the service side. Eg because fee-for-service is a thing in the United States (whereas most other countries have something like bundled payments as standard), it means that Doctors are encouraged to provide unnecessary tests, over-treatment etc, because that gets them more money. Also, the US is seen by pharmaceutical companies as a place to make up for the losses that they make when selling their drugs for cheaper overseas.

    Sure, the US could have universal healthcare. But if it does not address those service-side issues, it's going to be really damn expensive to run. Especially because there would be little to no exposure to costs, for the patients.
    When the government becomes the monopoly provider of basic health insurance, it gains a massive amount of leverage, plus the existing power to write law and policy, over health care pricing.
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  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    da space core's Avatar
    March 2012
    3,691 Posts
    Plot twist: Trump actually pushes his republican colleagues to shove this healthcare plan through so he can use it to remove obamacare and then take credit for fixing Americas healthcare system
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  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,863 Posts
    The problem with healthcare spending in the United States isn't on the insurance side, it's on the service side. Eg because fee-for-service is a thing in the United States (whereas most other countries have something like bundled payments as standard), it means that Doctors are encouraged to provide unnecessary tests, over-treatment etc, because that gets them more money. Also, the US is seen by pharmaceutical companies as a place to make up for the losses that they make when selling their drugs for cheaper overseas.

    Sure, the US could have universal healthcare. But if it does not address those service-side issues, it's going to be really damn expensive to run. Especially because there would be little to no exposure to costs, for the patients.
    Medical supplies genuinely don't cost that much to manufacture. As I recall, a 1 litre bag of Normal Saline costs around 2$ to make and they're sold for like 50-100 dollars a pop.

    So yea, all the government has to do is say "hey we're willing to pay, but we're only willing to pay 2% profit on your shit, and to further "entice" companies to work with them, just have a 4000% tax on the companies that refuse to cooperate. Wanna not play ball? Fine, you're going to lose money.
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  38. Post #38
    screamin 4 da gold
    RenegadeCop's Avatar
    January 2010
    12,973 Posts
    Plot twist: Trump actually pushes his republican colleagues to shove this healthcare plan through so he can use it to remove obamacare and then take credit for fixing Americas healthcare system
    I'll take it. Medical needs of this country are nothing to be petty about.
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  39. Post #39
    The Doctor Is In
    Pascall's Avatar
    September 2009
    20,302 Posts
    It always struck me as really odd how vision and dental are arbitrarily separated from the rest of healthcare. Imagine if you had to pay for a stomach doctor or a bone doctor or something like that.
    I mean you have to pay for specialists for a lot of things. I have to pay extra to see a gastroenterologist and extra to see a sports medicine doctor whenever I pull muscles in my legs because my GP isn't great at specifying things like that.

  40. Post #40
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2007
    2,315 Posts
    I live in one of the States with the lowest tax rate in the country and the amount of "No new taxes!" signs I'm seeing regarding raising taxes to fix our shitty roads leads me to believe a ridiculous amount of people don't actually understand what taxes do and just think it's "taking away their money"
    And I live in a state with the highest taxes and we have the worst roads in the country.
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