1. Post #1
    Gold Member
    Spetsnaz95's Avatar
    November 2011
    3,656 Posts
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - NFL team owners will consider requiring football players to stand for the U.S. national anthem after President Donald Trump on Tuesday suggested using tax laws to penalize the league for players who kneel in protest of racial injustice.

    Trump, a Republican, escalated his feud with the National Football League in a Twitter post asking if the league should get tax breaks while some athletes kneel in protest when the “Star-Spangled Banner” is played at the start of each game.

    “Why is the NFL getting massive tax breaks while at the same time disrespecting our Anthem, Flag and Country? Change tax law!” Trump wrote on Twitter.

    The world’s top-grossing sports league gave up its tax-free status two years ago. Its owners are preparing to address the anthem issue at their fall meeting in New York Oct. 17-18, NFL chief spokesman Joe Lockhart told reporters on a conference call on Tuesday.

    “Everyone at this point is frustrated by the situation,” Lockhart said. “The commissioner and the owners do want the players to stand. We think it is an important part of the game.”

    The protests, in a league where African-Americans make up the majority of players, have continued through the season, with some players taking a knee when the anthem is played and others standing arm-in-arm in solidarity.

    Current policy calls for players to stand for the anthem and face the flag, but no player has been disciplined for a protest, Lockhart said.
    Reuters.
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    GrizzlyBear's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,998 Posts
    No balls.
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  3. Post #3
    RenaFox's Avatar
    July 2013
    1,324 Posts
    If the NFL goes through with this, it'll just prove to Trump that he can get whatever he wants by being a massive bully.

    Please don't.
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  4. Post #4
    torres's Avatar
    January 2009
    220 Posts
    I hope players quit in protest, then the fans will really have screwed the pooch.

    Unlikely, but one can hope.
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    Solo Wing's Avatar
    September 2006
    4,910 Posts
    I hope all the players collectively tell Trump AND the NFL to go fuck themselves.

    Boy, wouldn't it be funny to see the cash cow that is the NFL fucking implode cause of this?
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    purvisdavid1's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,292 Posts
    Haven't NFL players organized a strike before? Do it again.

    Edit:

    Seems the event I remembered was the 2011 lockout, when the Players Association and team owners couldn't come to an agreement, the owners locked the players out of facilities and from seeing team doctors and the like.
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  7. Post #7
    Spirit Guide
    Big Dumb American's Avatar
    March 2009
    24,127 Posts
    If this occurs, it will mean that the Trump Administration will have declared open war on the first amendment, using its executive weight to force non-government entities to censor critical speech or suffer undue tax burdens. We must not let this happen. This will be the first real blow to our first amendment rights under Trump, but far from the last. If Trump gets his way on this, he'll take aim at higher goals -- going after journalists with more than just the empty threats and scare tactics he's leveraged so far.

    I don't care how much you love our flag or anthem: we are staring down the barrel of having our most important and most basic right ripped away from us. The freedom of speech is the first line of defense against tyranny. Democracy dies in darkness. Do not let this happen.
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  8. Post #8
    CreeplyTuna's Avatar
    September 2013
    493 Posts
    If this occurs, it will mean that the Trump Administration will have declared open war on the first amendment, using its executive weight to force non-government entities to censor critical speech or suffer undue tax burdens. We must not let this happen. This will be the first real blow to our first amendment rights under Trump, but far from the last. If Trump gets his way on this, he'll take aim at higher goals -- going after journalists with more than just the empty threats and scare tactics he's leveraged so far.

    I don't care how much you love our flag or anthem: we are staring down the barrel of having our most important and most basic right ripped away from us. The freedom of speech is the first line of defense against tyranny. Democracy dies in darkness. Do not let this happen.
    It's a real shame that the same users who fervently defended the first amendment during the Charlottesville protests even though they "don't support nazis" have suddenly disappeared. These national anthem threads seem to die within a page or two but neo-nazi threads have tens of pages of debate over what is acceptable free speech. I wonder where those guys went.
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  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    Sableye's Avatar
    October 2009
    22,608 Posts
    no litterally the only person frustrated is one donald j trump. stand up, the president is not fucking ceasar

  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    Mattk50's Avatar
    April 2010
    7,094 Posts
    It's a real shame that the same users who fervently defended the first amendment during the Charlottesville protests even though they "don't support nazis" have suddenly disappeared. These national anthem threads seem to die within a page or two but neo-nazi threads have tens of pages of debate over what is acceptable free speech. I wonder where those guys went.
    Someone usually has to disagree for there to be pages of argument. Plenty of people in those threads wanted the free speech rights of the neo-nazis limited and said as much early on, providing a point for pro-free speech people (including myself) to argue against. Here, there seems to be no disagreement, the NFL shouldn't do this and trump pressuring the NFL to do so is heinous.
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  11. Post #11
    FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SHITPOST IN POLIDICKS
    Raidyr's Avatar
    February 2007
    33,338 Posts
    As I said in the Pence thread, absolute cowardice. They either should have come down hard on the protests initially and made it a rule before the season began, or stick to their guns on unity and freedom of expression. Instead they do neither, waffling as soon as their ratings or taxpayer subsidies are threatened. In doing so throwing their players under the bus and gratifying the whims of a vocal minority who don't understand the slightest goddamned thing about being a true American.
    I don't care how much you love our flag or anthem
    I'm pretty patriotic and disagree strongly with the reasons for the kneeling protestors. I won't go into why as to risk throwing this thread offtopic, but I'm really not on their side or sympathetic to their cause.

    That said, they are demonstrating in the most passive way imaginable; simply taking a knee during the National Anthem. As you and others have said, that's their right in this country. The NFL too has the right to mandate players stand for the anthem but forced patriotism isn't patriotism. As much as I disagree with them, I'd rather these players not show respect for the anthem then be forced to be patriotic, because that's not what this country is about.

  12. Post #12
    Daily reminder that the NFL gave up its tax-exempt status already and it only ever applied to the league entity and not the individual teams.

    This is all about ratings and fan backlash. I don't know if the NFL even gets tax breaks; it'd be the ultimate in malevolence if Trump specifically instructed Congress to write in a punitive tax against the NFL if they don't behave. I'd insist on calling America "Tropico" instead of its real name at that point.
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  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    New Cidem's Avatar
    April 2010
    3,403 Posts
    Pack up and get the hell out of this soon-to-be third world country, holy shit. Never thought I'd see America fall this far this fast.
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  14. Post #14
    IKTM's Avatar
    September 2011
    1,279 Posts
    Standing for the anthem means nothing if you're forced to do it.
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  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    AlbertWesker's Avatar
    February 2007
    1,126 Posts
    I thought someone posted a link to a law earlier stating that Trump pressuring a non-government entity in this way was blatantly illegal?

    In any case this country is going to shit REALLY fast. 2 amendments from the bill of rights are already virtually irrelevant, and now 2 more are in imminent danger of being phased out.

  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    GHOST!!!!'s Avatar
    November 2006
    8,984 Posts
    God this shit sounds so fucking sad, it's such a 1st world problem, oh you can't kneel for the anthem, you have to stand or that's bad, fuck off, christ.
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  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    piddlezmcfuz's Avatar
    February 2006
    780 Posts
    Standing for the anthem means nothing if you're forced to do it.
    If I stand and take a piss for the anthem will these people find it disrespectful? I doubt they have the cognitive skills to even look into it to see that deliberately taking a piss might be disrespectful, considering that they can't even be bothered to explore why the players are kneeling in the first place. To them, I'd still be on their "side" because I am standing.

    This is just the same braindead shit that this breed of "patriot" tends to throw around, just as they always have. Only this time they feel that they are proven right in their anger just because the president has joined in.
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  18. Post #18
    ultimate poster
    Itachi_Crow's Avatar
    November 2007
    13,114 Posts
    BLIND NATIONALISM OVER HUMAN LIVES CITIZENS

    YOU ARE FREE

    NOW PLEDGE YOUR ALLEGIANCE TO YOUR OVERLORDS

    Edited:

    Just so there's no ambiguity, I'll state my opinion in plain words: compared to human lives, and compared to actual rights, the flag and the anthem mean absolutely fucking nothing. Not a thing. Nobody died so you could be shamed into doing a song and dance and praise your government's colors regardless of what they do. It's not disrespectful to anyone, living or dead, to exercise your rights to protest the government, and that includes the symbols of that government.
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  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Zang-Pog's Avatar
    August 2006
    7,077 Posts
    So nobody stops to think for a moment if the president of the United States bullying NFL to do his bidding is an acceptable situation?
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  20. Post #20
    sweetbro's Avatar
    April 2011
    241 Posts
    Nice effort by Trump to distract people from shit thats actually important. Looks like its working too
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  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    January 2012
    1,211 Posts
    Protest this shit hard. Spread it around. Show them we won't stand for it.
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  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    TestECull's Avatar
    July 2007
    9,880 Posts
    I'm going to laugh if the players currently kneeling change tact and stand, but face away from the flag, to keep their protest alive while following the letter of the rule.
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,912 Posts
    I mean the NFL has usually suppressed anything "outside the norm" IE can't wear stickers on your helmet for a cause, can't wear different colored shoes, etc etc. I sincerely think they've allowed the protests just to try to attract some more audience, and now that it's backfiring they're going to suppress it.

    The NFL is all about numbers, not politics or protests. Numbers are what make the league money, and if people aren't watching and aren't going, they aren't making any money, and the protest isn't being heard.
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  24. Post #24
    FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SHITPOST IN POLIDICKS
    Raidyr's Avatar
    February 2007
    33,338 Posts
    Just so there's no ambiguity, I'll state my opinion in plain words: compared to human lives, and compared to actual rights, the flag and the anthem mean absolutely fucking nothing. Not a thing. Nobody died so you could be shamed into doing a song and dance and praise your government's colors regardless of what they do. It's not disrespectful to anyone, living or dead, to exercise your rights to protest the government, and that includes the symbols of that government.
    I'd make the argument that people who demand the players stand for the pledge are disrespecting the country more than the players who are kneeling tbh.
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  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    T553412's Avatar
    May 2012
    2,568 Posts
    Standing for the anthem means nothing if you're forced to do it.
    Maybe stand up to the flag and anthem, but face the other way?

    I mean, Trump can keep moving the goalposts (heh) all he wants, but he isn't the only one that can play this game

  26. Post #26
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,912 Posts
    I'd make the argument that people who demand the players stand for the pledge are disrespecting the country more than the players who are kneeling tbh.
    I actively fought for the country and second your argument. I'm more offended by the people bitching than by the protests. Mostly because people DO have the right to protest, and the people protesting are doing it in the absolute right way. They aren't hurting anyone, they aren't blocking traffic, they aren't damaging property. Its literally an ideal protest, and people want to shut it down. So how would you prefer them to protest? By burning cities and maiming/killing others? By having strings of massive racial violence? Because that's what's going to happen if you eliminate the right to peacefully protest.
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  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    November 2010
    7,758 Posts
    It's little things like this that slowly add up to a complete destruction of a country.
    (People like trump I mean, not the NFL)

    The US will never be the same as it once was.

  28. Post #28
    Missy Q
    The golden's Avatar
    June 2005
    12,789 Posts


    Kinda relevant, especially the last point. There are no words to describe how stupid the NFL is if they do this.
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  29. Post #29
    funion is gay
    Zukriuchen's Avatar
    September 2009
    21,522 Posts
    Forced patriotism, nice. Has Trump even acknowledged the issue they're protesting?
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  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    TheTalon's Avatar
    June 2008
    25,874 Posts
    Protest this shit hard. Spread it around. Show them we won't stand for it.
    Enjoy your new tax, traitor

    This whole thing is painfully ironic. Land of the free, now I demand that you stand

    I was made to stand and say
    I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    Every day, 5 days a week, from First grade all the way until my last day of high school. Public, tax funded, schools. To make anyone do that is bullshit, especially in a country that loves to rub in your face how free you are to not do it

    Protesting the government is not the same as disrespecting the military. The people who say it is are making that connection on their own and ignoring any context. Hell, the government itself disrespects the military. Using it to settle disagreements rather than defending any rights, not taking care of those who come back maimed afterwards....

  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Llamalord's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,070 Posts
    Imagine having your race subjugated for the last 300ish years due to systematic racism and slavery.

    Then imagine being one of the few to escape generational poverty

    Then imagine protesting (since you now have power and prestige that white nationalists are afraid of) because your community is in absolute fucking ruins and there are simple solutions like police brutality and drug war reform.

    Then imagine after protesting, being called a "son of a bitch" and hated by the nation and being called privileged even though you barely escaped generational poverty because you had a extraordinary ability and white NFL owners could profit off you.

    If this happens and NFL owners force these athletes to stay silent, there will be such a big fucking backlash that the whole sports economy will fall to pieces.
    I feel like every hundred years or so, economically depressed societies forget what was so bad about fascism in the first place and slowly allow dictators to creep in.
    We were lucky with Hitler but in the future, we have to really try and protect our freedoms because our leaders are getting more and more powerful with technology.
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  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,912 Posts
    Imagine having your race subjugated for the last 300ish years due to systematic racism and slavery.

    Then imagine being one of the few to escape generational poverty

    Then imagine protesting because your community is in absolute fucking ruins and there are simple solutions like police brutality and drug war reform.

    Then imagine being called a "son of a bitch" and hated by the nation and being called privileged even though you barely escaped generational poverty because you had a extraordinary ability and white NFL owners could profit off you.

    If this happens and NFL owners force these athletes to stay silent, there will be such a big fucking backlash that the whole sports economy will fall to pieces.
    I question that. I certainly think that there are a bunch of people who 100% agree with the protest, but I think there are plenty of others who are just doing it because its "trendy". I'd be willing to wager that you'll see the vast majority of people stop protesting once the NFL says "stop protesting or we fine you hundreds of thousands of dollars per game" or "stop protesting or your contract is void and you wouldn't get paid again".

    My hope is that they'd stick to their guns, but quite frankly I have no actual faith in humanity, so I'm going to assume that once shit gets real, people are going to suddenly not be strong in their convictions.
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  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    Llamalord's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,070 Posts
    I question that. I certainly think that there are a bunch of people who 100% agree with the protest, but I think there are plenty of others who are just doing it because its "trendy". I'd be willing to wager that you'll see the vast majority of people stop protesting once the NFL says "stop protesting or we fine you hundreds of thousands of dollars per game" or "stop protesting or your contract is void and you wouldn't get paid again".

    My hope is that they'd stick to their guns, but quite frankly I have no actual faith in humanity, so I'm going to assume that once shit gets real, people are going to suddenly not be strong in their convictions.
    I'm not concerned if people are doing activism to "stay relevant" or to "trend", all that matters is that they are using their fame to protest against police brutality. There will always be those that are disingenuous, that shouldn't matter and its a distraction from the real issue.

    EDIT: I think there will be a unification of black athletes, it happened with Trump calling out Steph Curry and I think it will lead to walk-outs and demonstrations by athletes if they actually enforce those anti-freespeech rules.
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  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    Zero-Point's Avatar
    March 2006
    12,176 Posts
    Daily reminder that the NFL gave up its tax-exempt status already and it only ever applied to the league entity and not the individual teams.

    This is all about ratings and fan backlash. I don't know if the NFL even gets tax breaks; it'd be the ultimate in malevolence if Trump specifically instructed Congress to write in a punitive tax against the NFL if they don't behave. I'd insist on calling America "Tropico" instead of its real name at that point.
    Remember when Conservative groups raised a massive shit-fit when they claimed Obama directed the IRS to do the same to Republican/Conservative groups? Wonder where those people are now...
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  35. Post #35
    I'M A SHAAARK!
    Lambeth's Avatar
    October 2009
    17,108 Posts
    Remember when Conservative groups raised a massive shit-fit when they claimed Obama directed the IRS to do the same to Republican/Conservative groups? Wonder where those people are now...
    that ended up being nonsense anyway

  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    Sableye's Avatar
    October 2009
    22,608 Posts
    real patriots would stand up for people demonstrating peacefully. the flag isn't america.

  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    Zero-Point's Avatar
    March 2006
    12,176 Posts
    that ended up being nonsense anyway
    I know, hence "claimed".

    Edited:

    real patriots would stand up for people demonstrating peacefully. the flag isn't america.
    Nah man, you don't understand. People fought and died for that flag because nobody bothered to tell them that they fought and died for a country.

  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    Omali's Avatar
    September 2005
    3,641 Posts
    So nobody stops to think for a moment if the president of the United States bullying NFL to do his bidding is an acceptable situation?
    No, anyone with the capacity to stop and think already knows that it isn't acceptable.