1. Post #1561
    Fluury's Avatar
    September 2014
    3,125 Posts
    - Updated the Atomizer damage penalty vs players to -15% (from -25%)
    - Updated the Thermal Thruster stomp damage on other players to be 3x the base fall damage - not the reduced fall damage of the owner
    Surprised no one seems to give a shit about this - these are normal balance changes in a generic update

    this could be the start of something beautiful
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  2. Post #1562
    K4ZMA's Avatar
    February 2014
    1,222 Posts
    Fixed the charge sound for the Stickybomb Launcher not stopping if the player switches weapons while charging
    Holy shit, I noticed this bug like three years ago
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  3. Post #1563
    Blackavar's Avatar
    June 2014
    3,130 Posts
    Health on hit supports a roamer play style and sustains aggression, both of which are good. The key is consistency and a fair trade off.
    Hmm... Well, you guys know my obsession with TF2 balance. Let's give this weapon one clean shot:

    Black Box

    (+) 10 health gained for every player hit per attack
    (+) 25% increased blast radius
    (-) 15% damage penalty
    (-) 25% slower reload speed

    Explanation: 10 health gained for every player hit on attack, with the 25% increased blast radius, means you can sustain yourself against a group of enemies for a while. This means that it's good for bombing the enemy. However, the damage you'd be doing against the enemy, if you were just flailing wildly with your aim, would be minimal. Then, once you ran out of rockets (of which you have 4 again), the reload speed downside would get you eliminated very quickly if your team didn't help you push in.

  4. Post #1564
    ikes's Avatar
    March 2014
    5,063 Posts
    did jill just push out an update at 10:00 PM

  5. Post #1565
    Gold Member
    DrCactus's Avatar
    March 2012
    3,659 Posts
    Hmm... Well, you guys know my obsession with TF2 balance. Let's give this weapon one clean shot:

    Black Box

    (+) 10 health gained for every player hit per attack
    (+) 25% increased blast radius
    (-) 15% damage penalty
    (-) 25% slower reload speed

    Explanation: 10 health gained for every player hit on attack, with the 25% increased blast radius, means you can sustain yourself against a group of enemies for a while. This means that it's good for bombing the enemy. However, the damage you'd be doing against the enemy, if you were just flailing wildly with your aim, would be minimal. Then, once you ran out of rockets (of which you have 4 again), the reload speed downside would get you eliminated very quickly if your team didn't help you push in.
    You're adding too many stats onto the weapon. All it needs is to go back to original version but cap the hp on hit to be 15, and 15 only.
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  6. Post #1566
    Blackavar's Avatar
    June 2014
    3,130 Posts
    You're adding too many stats onto the weapon. All it needs is to go back to original version but cap the hp on hit to be 15, and 15 only.
    Too many stats? I'm giving it a proper purpose. If you want too many stats, you should look at the Shortstop if it were honest:

    Shortstop

    (i) Alt-Fire to reach and shove someone!
    (i) This weapon reloads its entire clip at once
    (+) 100% damage bonus
    (+) 40% increased accuracy
    (+) 40% increased firing speed
    (-) 17% reduced maximum damage ramp-up
    (-) 50% decreased reload speed
    (-) 60% fewer pellets
    (-) 34% reduced clip size
    (-) 20% increased knockback taken

    Edited:

    Black Box

    (+) 15 health gained for every attack
    (+) 25% increased blast radius
    (-) 15% damage penalty

    This slightly slimmer design would probably be fine though
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  7. Post #1567
    Fluury's Avatar
    September 2014
    3,125 Posts
    did jill just push out an update at 10:00 PM
    party fix probably

  8. Post #1568
    C. Blades's Avatar
    October 2016
    750 Posts
    Too many stats? I'm giving it a proper purpose. If you want too many stats, you should look at the Shortstop if it were honest:

    Shortstop

    (i) Alt-Fire to reach and shove someone!
    (i) This weapon reloads its entire clip at once
    (+) 100% damage bonus
    (+) 40% increased accuracy
    (+) 40% increased firing speed
    (-) 17% reduced maximum damage ramp-up
    (-) 50% decreased reload speed
    (-) 60% fewer pellets
    (-) 34% reduced clip size
    (-) 20% increased knockback taken

    Edited:

    Black Box

    (+) 15 health gained for every attack
    (+) 25% increased blast radius
    (-) 15% damage penalty

    This slightly slimmer design would probably be fine though
    Tbh THAT black box would be totally fine.

    You don't even need the increased blast radius either with those stats. Just make it do something notably different than the stock, and have that thing be useful and fair to fight against, and bam, you've got a good unlock.

  9. Post #1569
    notpingas's Avatar
    August 2017
    53 Posts
    Agreed. Although the black box, not so much.

    The nerf the box needed was a cap on healing no matter how many enemies you hit, which honestly was the problem with it, high burst healing for mindless spam.

    Instead, you now give up a quarter of your total damage potential for quite often single digit health gains, as even perfectly aimed shots can deal low damage, or be from long range. That's absolutely not worth it.

    This is an example of a bad nerf, as all it did was make people use it with the conch, ironically the very same combo the healing changes were designed to make less useful.
    I do agree with you that the Black Box needs a buff. However, I think it's in a better place now than it was ever before.

    The old Black Box was super straightforward. 15 health gained per single person hit. That number got multiplied each time more than one person took damage, so it was a great benefit from fighting groups of enemies. I just don't agree on your opinion that it was the main problem to deal with when rebalancing. You see, being straightforward is a boon, but it carries the side effect of requiring little to no effort to get most out of your Black Box. That isn't true with the today's version.

    The modern Black Box requires you to get close for the full benefit, rewarding things like aggressive play and the use of gamesense to know when to retreat. In it's on-paper ideal form, it's rational from a gameplay perspective and fun to both use and fight against. However, there is a wall between us and this Black Box of good balance. The risks outweigh the rewards by a mile, forcing you to either die a lot or retreat to a range where the healing is reduced to single digits, not unlike how you described the situation to be.

    In conclusion, there must be rebalancing, but I'd like those changes to retain the thinking processes that the Black Box of today possesses.

  10. Post #1570
    C. Blades's Avatar
    October 2016
    750 Posts
    As long as you make the upside useful in situations you commonly run across with the play style that the weapon creates then by all means.

    Low damage shots and spam are a big part of soldier in competitive too. A good soldier named Vhalin pioneered the prenerf gun as a viable sidegrade there too.
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  11. Post #1571
    Mort Stroodle's Avatar
    June 2014
    8,382 Posts
    However useful the black box might be, I don't think I'd ever want to trade attack power for a heal. Even if it's balanced, that style of soldier just doesn't seem as fun to me. Trading that aggressive "jump in, murder everybody, and probably die but everybody's dead so fuck it" for the lower killing power of less damage or one fewer rocket and more survivability sort of takes away my favorite part of soldier. But of course that's just how I like to play the class, it's not an inherent design flaw with the black box just because it doesn't mesh with my playstyle.
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  12. Post #1572
    notpingas's Avatar
    August 2017
    53 Posts
    As long as you make the upside useful in situations you commonly run across with the play style that the weapon creates then by all means.

    Low damage shots and spam are a big part of soldier in competitive too. A good soldier named Vhalin pioneered the prenerf gun as a viable sidegrade there too.
    Players like Vhalin probably are the reason for why the Black Box has been accepted by the competitive community. It's been fairly quickly mapped out, recognized and effectively used by roamers without twisting the meta too much. A thumbs-up in that regard.

    However useful the black box might be, I don't think I'd ever want to trade attack power for a heal. Even if it's balanced, that style of soldier just doesn't seem as fun to me. Trading that aggressive "jump in, murder everybody, and probably die but everybody's dead so fuck it" for the lower killing power of less damage or one fewer rocket and more survivability sort of takes away my favorite part of soldier. But of course that's just how I like to play the class, it's not an inherent design flaw with the black box just because it doesn't mesh with my playstyle.
    TF2 caters to most, if not all playstyles available. That's one of it's greatest upsides. There can be aggressive bomber Soldiers like you, and passive corridor Soldiers like me. Where ever the Black Box lands in terms of balance, hopefully it remains usable throughout the ages. The real problem with Soldier's arsenal these days are unlocks that serve no strong purpose.

    Looking at you, Liberty Launcher.

  13. Post #1573
    chandlerj333's Avatar
    January 2015
    1,784 Posts
    I wish that more sets had effects (cosmetic, of course). Like if the fruit shoot+huntsman set increased the likelihood of the sniper using lines like “that’s apples, mate” and “bloody fruit shop owners.” And the fast food fire starter set making you drop chicken leg gibs on death. Retro sci-fi sound effects for item pickups and other sound effects when using grordbort sets.