Come on Garry! Be reasonable! Would it kill ya to give us some Linux binaries so those of us with Linux servers can host? I can guarantee there will be many more servers available if there was Linux support. Seriously, how much work would it really be to port the code? It's not like you're trying to get it to run on the PS3.

I rented a 32-slot server not knowing that Garry's Mod is not available for Linux. I was pretty annoyed when I found out that you put Linux support on the backburner. But I have faith in your good judgment. Only someone as creative and intelligent as you could have conceived something as great as Garry's Mod. So put that creativity and intelligence to good use and port to Linux.

It help would me out enormously as well as most of the community here if you could give us a little Linux love.

P.S. If by some impossibility the task is too much for you to handle, my skills as a programmer can serve you.


Sincerely,
Caleb

LinBins have been on the backburner for months, so don't expect to see them anytime soon.

Which is why I made this thread.

Can't see this happening anytime in the near future.

Many threads have been made asking for binaries quite some time now.

Pessimism is the pillow that smothers you in your sleep.

Of all the threads about this problem, has our good friend Garry given a reasonable answer?

Every single mod for Half-life 2 has provided Linux binaries except for his. Unless a Linux server packed with explosives came crashing through his ceiling and detonated nearly killing Garry and his family. I don't understand why he is making a particular effort NOT to support Linux.

I really don't think garry gives a shit about them to be honest.

They're not really imperative...useful and beneficial I suppose. But not Imperative.

You discredit yourself as a forum moderator by using profanity.

Perhaps, Garry could speak for himself?

Maybe Garry is forgetting that we are all his paying customers. From a business perspective, it is generally considered good practice to meet customer demands as best as you can if you expect repeat business.

I would say it is most definitely imperative. Now that I know there are no binaries for Linux, I only see this product as lacking.

Business involves income.

Windows Licensing, yes, fair. -- srcds is free.
So your base cost is Windows licensing.

Expenditure to garry: time and effort.
Profit to garry: zilch?

Business perspective negated?

He's commented on it before

Sorry about the profanity, wasn't aware it discredited my already sterling post quality.

You are absolutely wrong good sir.

Maybe you could clearly explain why I am paying $20 a month for hosting then?


Costs can include:
- Internet connection with ample bandwidth. (tends to be very expensive.)
- Relatively powerful computer that can handle multiple clients. (lots of expensive hardware)
- Electricity (not initially expensive, but 24 hour usage can add very quickly)

Setting customers with Linux servers adrift will hurt Garry's business in the long run.

srcds is free.

My clear explanation: You're paying someone else to host a server for you?

:)

Internet bandwidth has nothing to do whether or not you have Linux server binaries, nor really does electricity; especially if a computer's running 24/7. Costs can't be reduced on those factors. And I'll quote garry with the 'performance' problems: 'Performance Benchmarks or sharrap'.

It costs an absolute fortune to run a server which is then added to because you have to pay for windows.

Thank you for clarifying Catdaemon. You obviously know what you are talking about.

I meant srcds. :(

Oh, I get you now. Windows Server licensing. Yeah that does suck ass.

Edit:

(I'm not saying we shouldn't have them, I'm saying I doubt it'll happen)

If Garry doesn't want to do it himself then why doesn't he find someone who can. I'm sure there someone out is there dying to solve this problem himself. Like me for instance.

Send him an email. :)

Linux binaries, while cool, aren't really needed.

You can run the windows server through wine.

Running servers through WINE can seriously hinder performance.

Most game server companies refuse to run WINE because of this.

Edit:

Do you think he'll bite?

You have to run X then. There's then some performance and stability issues.

I do not understand why you consider Linux binaries "cool" as if it were an optional feature.

It is an absolute necessity.

I don't think they are a necessity. I think we're doing fine without them.

It's a lot simpler to keep it all on one platform. No matter how simple it is to compile linux binaries, it's another step in the development, another shit load of testing before every release.

Well could you at least place the burden on someone else's shoulders. Someone who is willing to do the work for you. I would be happy with even a beta release.

It IS a necessity. Apparently companies like ATI and Nvidia determined that Linux was prevalent enought to release drivers for it. Albeit, they are not well-supported they met their customers needs.

You don't think it's a necessity, umm to be honest it's not about what you think. It is about what the customer thinks, every mod out there for HL2 from small to big has Linux support. Not to mention these mods are usually paying out of pocket if anything is needed. Garry's Mod is a payware mod and is getting worse support than calling Customer Service and being transfered across seas to someone you can't understand.

First-party Gmod support ranks somewhere between Netgear and BT. Which is pretty dire.

Anyway, Gmod's growing up now. It can't stay the little bedroom-coded mod (it actually lost that status the moment Gmod10 was released). Gmod is a commercial product, so Garry needs to start thinking like a businessman.

A very strong and concise statement my friend, of which I am in full agreement with. It is good to know that there are many others who feel this way!

I don't see what this has got to do with having Linux binaries.

It's about listening to customers, and seeing things from more than just a developer point of view. As a Community/Part-GSP owner, my outlook would be a lot different to yours, and I'd spot usability things which you'd never find. It's the same as you fixing bugs that I'd never find, as I don't know any C++.

Well it's a plain and simple matter. For example, if BMW made a new sport coupe, and it only came with cloth seats. 1/4 to 1/2 of their customers prefer leather and will not buy it ENLESS they have leather. Then BMW will include it into their car, but if they don't, that 1/4 to 1/2 will bad mouth BMW for not doing so. Then they not only lost their returning customers, they have also lost a group of future customers.

Linux servers, Windows servers, the customer experience doesn't change.

GSP's aren't customers. In fact, they're quite the opposite.

GSPs are not the only people who host servers. In fact most GSPs won't host gmod servers because there's no linux binaries. People have to fork out for dedicated servers or VPS hosting and this costs a lot of money. For example I rent a linux VPS for £15 a month for stuff like teamspeak servers. This would cost me £30 a month if I wanted a windows one.
Lots of people want to host their own servers which is why GSPs exist in the first place.

So just use Windows?

Perhaps you've ascended to the level of politicians and such, but not everyone is made of money.

Yes, windows hosting is ridiculously expensive.

The hosting companies that do have Gmod charge up to $35 for 10 slots.

Their servers work amazingly great. Great prices too. Runs on Windows. $1.99/s

http://www.wolfservers.com/main2/

20 bucks for 10 people?

I'm renting a 32-slot CS:S server for the same price.

Quote'd for truth.

I know a lot of people who run GSPs, and a few times I did ask about GMod server hosting. Fat chance- even those running on Windows environments or with Windows machines to host the gameservers on were very critical of the server components of Garry's Mod, and pretty much refused to even consider providing it.

I'm currently running a GMod server under WINE. This has entailed setting up a VNC XFCE instance to let the srcds console sit in (Though the console is bugged so heavily under WINE we actually just make it log to a file and tail -f it, rcon for commands and so on), and there's a whole pile of odd bugs which don't happen outside of WINE.

What UM said earlier is an excellent way of putting it. GMod is the bedroom mod; if it ever wants to be considered seriously by GSPs and so on, there needs to be an extended and realised level of real support and commitment for the community- not just customers, but GSPs and so on. Garry's Mod has so much potential that is simply being put to waste because of the current attitude towards development and community relations.

I tend not to most to often on here seeing as I am not a native English speaker and that tends to be detrimental to your posting health when you miss use a word or have a miss spelling, But i do believe that Linux binaries are something that can boost the popularity of Garry's Mod, Thus increasing your sales.

Not having Linux servers limits your server count and limits WHO can host a server.
This in turn limits your player base to isolated communities.

If you look at games With Linux binaries. The server count grows to be much higher and in turn you get a lot of "weekend" gamers popping onto random servers to enjoy a few hours of build or other game mode play.

In the aforementioned scenario, you will have more players purchasing Gmod10, and with the marketing theory of word of mouth, friends of friends, purchasing Gmod 10. Thus it can be expected to provide more sales and revenue to you.

So in the long run Garry, A Linux Binary release has the potential to boost profits and increase potential customers and community size.

On a side note, if you are worried about the time it will take, why not charge 5 USD for the server binary? Then you have a guaranteed profit off a minimal amount of work.

On a quick real-world example, Melonbrew.com (Didn't you just love us) shut down early last year, mostly due to a lack of interest but in large part because all our script developers and server admins just gave up, having to deal with the extraordinarily bad interface through WINE. In the 4 years we ran, many people signed up and then bought GMod. That particular revenue stream is ended for Garry.

These are real-world issues which are seen all over the place in any game or software development shop in the world. You limit your platforms anywhere in your product, and you're cutting yourself off from profit.

I actually purchased Gmod10 after joining melonbrew, so i can attest to this.

So Garry, how many testimonials do we need to get you to change your mind?

Bluesummers made a great point. You could just charge for Linux support. Why not? It's more money. Unless you don't like money.

I agree with Bluesummers. I think alot of people would agree with me when I say that Linux is a much more stable operating platform than Windows.

I also think that your profit margin would be much much higher if you implemented a Linux server.

Oh boy, not this shit again.

We have all been down this route. There will be no linux binaries, EVER. Garry does not have the balls to come out and say it, but I will elect myself as an unofficial representative for garry and do it for him.

NO LINUX BINARIES.


This is a very very old topic and people have been banned for just expressing the same concerns others are sharing here. Every point is valid and it does ultimately effect the community; but logic, insight and sense plays no part here. It basically comes down to the lack of ability or willingness to offload the task.

Garry is NOT a business man, he is an ad-hoc developer who had his day in the sun and was robbed by Valve. There is no ability to maintain and develop a sane code base to ensure integrity of the releases. Hell, we can't even get stable windows releases.

Good call on EP2 engine...

And yes, here comes my perm ban.

Hi Garry.

-Hatred

Edit:

Oh he loves money. Took our asses to the bank after gmod9 and saying linux would be there. Yes, you did. Then everyone who made services (GSP) and communities disappeared because of this "not necessary" aspect of modern hosting.

GMOD9, which was free had linux binaries. GMOD10, 10 bucks did not. That makes TOTAL sense. Glad I got my money worth.

(User was permabanned for this post (Reason: Ban Me) [event] 50198 [/event])

And the truth comes out Garry!

He's right. Linux binaries aren't planned.

That's not the only thing he's right about, is it.

Apparently you made an ongoing promise of Linux support and then defaulted on that promise.

Do you think that this problem is going to just disappear? People are going to continue to demand Linux support until you either provide it or Garry's Mod dies do to lack of interest.

Ummm. I am so confused, to me it seems to be over 95% of games, mods, etc that are out there and support Linux for server use. Yet this is the ONLY mod that has an issue with it. The guy that got banned is right, GMOD9 = free + Linux = Happy. GMOD10 + $10 - Linux = Rip Off = Cheated.

How can you not see that providing Linux binaries would make the server list explode with new servers? Gmod's server list has always been small in comparison with other mods of the same standard. Why? Because the other mods all provide LinBins.

You're in the real world now Garry, you can't be the "guy in his bedroom coding C++" for much longer.

If you're actually unable to provide Linux server binaries (simply because you don't know how to) then just say so.

If you carry on making excuses, we'll just see you as being lazy and incompetent.

I doubt you'd have many customers without GSPs being around.

What's wrong with windows?

Garry, just admit it, you have no fucking clue on what to do to make Linux binaries.
Actually, neither do I but someone here has to know something about it.

I dug up some old internal performance reports from the company I own, CloudNine. Some techs investigated running TF2 and DOD:S dedicated servers on Windows / Linux 32 and 64, as well as WINE on Linux and VirtualBox on OS X. All data is an average over a 3-hour period. This was more of an informal thing, but I feel it's still relevant here. The server tested was a 2.2GHz Opteron, 4GB Ram - it was imaged with each OS shown here for a respective test.





Edit: Looks like it was tested for lag spikes. Don't know what/where these came from, but:

Those charts prove that WINE cripples Linux's stability. Any software forced to run in an emulated environment cannot be expected to function very well at all. Just take Vista for example. Look at the hell people are going through just to get their XP applications working on Vista.

Why?

Garry, for some unexplained reason, thinks it isn't needed.

And a (to use your words)shit load more of servers hosted on Linux

Heh, pretty much.

Plus, native Windows applications will always run better in comparison to a ported one.

This is why I have had to only have 1 server hosted off site. It's just too expensive to get a server because of the license attached to windows.

No idea how things are tested, but judging by the amount of cock ups caused by the previous releases, the beta tests are't very effective...

Garry you are being unreasonable. The community not only asks for them, they plead for them. We are getting sucked drying buying W2k Server licenses and paying double the cost to GSPs who do host windows.

If this is a question of your distaste for Linux, why not take up our offer. Make Linux binaries, and charge a fee for them. 5-10 USD. This is a fair argument and you cannot say it is not. Even if only 1 of 5 people on this site bought the binary. You would still make over 25 thousand united states dollars.

This is no longer a question of keeping it simple. It is a question about the further support for Gmod in the future. These binaries can give a huge boost in users, and communities. And that too only means one thing for you garry, More money.

It's a dismal mistake on your part to pass up a easy business opportunity such as this.

It's garrys mod. Don't like it, to bad. Deal with it. He worked his ass off to make it for you. Be happy he hasn't got pissed off enough to update GMod and completely brake it on purpose with no fix.

I don't run linux and have no true idea of the difference, but from what I've gleaned over my year of true lurking is that Linux runs servers better than Windows, and is a lot cheaper in buying a server not being held by you, which causes a lot of problems with Garry's Mod as Garry refuses to give any indication that he'll ever make support for Linux proper. The only reason I support people asking for Linux binaries is because I hate listening to a lecture everytime I ask why we can't just get a solid server for Meteornet.

Well i believe that when i pay for software, or anything for that matter, there is a level of customer support that goes along with the product.

If you buy a Graphics card, and it does not work with your OS, wouldn't you write Nvidia and ask for a driver fix? Or if it didn't work in even one game, wouldn't you ask for a driver fix?

When you buy a game and it is to buggy to play. Don't you ask for patches?

I thought this happened every time he released a new version?

Now calm down. Garry doesn't really have to make gmod work for linux if he doesn't want to. (He did a lot already.) This is starting to seem like dogpile on the coder.

the problem is, when we bought Gmod we all thought that there WOULD be Linux binaries as there were Binaries for 9.04 and we expected them for 10 too.

But we didn't think and he has our money now and we are too late as he has our money now.

I guess when he spent all the money on apartment-rent, a new car every 2 years and giant TV's he will think about the Linux Binaries and new selling methods again.

... Any software forced to run in an emulated environment ...

Do you know what WINE stands for?
WINE Is Not an Emulator.

Linux support = more servers = more players possibly?

It stands for that but even some elements of WINE say it's an emulator. Like when assigning an exe to open with WINE goto the program list thing and you'll see WINE Windows Emulator.

Maybe Garry doesn't know how to make them?

I think he does, as there were ones for Gmod 9. Then again, that was just an easy sourcemod and you just had to plop the files into the folder and let it run. Either way, it does seem a bit fishy; the paying customers want something, it's a bit "in-your-face" to deny it so bluntly.

I would definitely agree. I would rather hear "well if there is enough demand ..."

It is indeed Garry's Mod. But that attitude is no longer acceptable because it's now a commercial product. Instead of "deal with it", the right answer is to "contact the developers for support". Say you bought Crysis to play on your brand spanking new PC which cost £2,500, only to have Gmod crash on it all the time. You'd come here asking for help, only to be told to "Deal with it".

As we've said before, Gmod's a legally commercial product, and the support needs to become commercial standard as well.

I agree with you 100%, when he stepped his foot in the world of being paid for his work. The customers come along with the money, if it was free I can see him not wanting to do it. Yet people are PAYING for his mod and want Linux support but he won't give it to us. That's wrong way going about his business, it's a good way to lose customers. I also agree with Kale, there should be more of "I can do it, if there is enough demand" then "No Linux For You!". We PAY for this mod now, don't you think we deserve to have Linux, it is not like there is only one person that is asking for it. Multiple CUSTOMERS want it, it performs better on Linux, it cost less on Linux. If you had a nice car, you can buy the same car but with a different Manufacture and it comes with more power, features and cheaper, wouldn't you want that car instead?

Nope.

Then apparently you have no sense of money.

Stop feeding the trolls.


Long story short. If garry does not want to give us binaries, let us develop them ourselves. I am done waiting for him to stop acting like a 12 year old boy about all of this.

Even me, a rabid windows fangirl, knows the importance of having Linux servers. This is getting ridiculous.

On a poll from 12 major GSPs, only ONE would host a game on a windows server, and they wanted twice as much as it would cost for me to run a server off my Linux blades.

Even if binaries did come out and cost 20USD, it would be worth it in the long run just because of how much money is saved using Linux.

A smart idea comes out of the clutter.

I've spoken with Garry about offloading the work but he refuses to let anyone have access to his code.

Code is precious. And it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't want to give access to it. It shouldn't surprise anyone to be honest.

Wait, i have to pay for a license to host a server?

Well, add that to my "Shelf o' Felonies".