1. Post #241
    Gold Member
    Blargtastic's Avatar
    August 2008
    5,028 Posts
    The model looks good, but is low res and a bit of an eye sore on the feet, but otherwise, the attention to detail is good and fits the model perfectly, kudos Stratos!

    Good to see there's a ragdoll, that was one of the primary hitches to this beauty!
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  2. Post #242
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    Eh...all the complaints about the feet...

    The front of the feet are like that because I only made those polys visible from the side in the UVW map. I'd never thought in my wildest imagination that people would CARE that there was some stretching on the feet, a feature of the body I see almost as negligible. It's not really possible to go back and change it at this point; the texture and normal map would both be considerably altered, and unfortunately for us, Frito didn't save that beautiful ZBrush Shrieker model due to misunderstanding the program's method of saving. If you guys are more skilled at Photoshop than I thought, and you guys desire it enough, I could cut out the front of the feet UV's and make them easier to see and map, but you'll be on your own as to making the normal work with it.

    The texture resolution should be good, really, it's 1024x1024. I think it's just that Stratos used some low res images to do the details of the texture, so there's blurring, making it appear lower resolution than it is.

    And Xystus...I'm sorry, but you don't understand. It is FOOLHARDY to try and make serious animations without the use of IK. It's IMPOSSIBLE, unless you spend months per animation, to create a proper walk cycle, or do anything that involves the feet staying stationary as the root of the skeleton moves. And lacking movement of the main body is going to make the animation look extremely fake.

    The Halo Grunt got fucked because something was wrong with it's skeleton, probably an inherent flaw that came from decompiling, but I've made these models by hand, rigged them myself, and there's no reason to think they should encounter the same problems. Besides, I want to try and see if I can get the IK to actually WORK inside the game this time around, making the Shrieker actually plant his feet on the surface of the ground, even if it's uneven. Maybe get the Graboid to actually grab things specifically with his tongues (although I might not need that, because I think attachement points are different from IK; if I can do with the Graboid what that guy did with the mecha-hydra, then I'll have something pretty cool).
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  3. Post #243
    Gold Member
    Blargtastic's Avatar
    August 2008
    5,028 Posts
    Y'know, I think I'll stay with the feet being stretched like that if it's so much effort to change it ;P

    I have the mecha hydra, and love how it impales stuff, yes please!
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  4. Post #244
    Stratos117's Avatar
    December 2008
    28 Posts
    Wow that came out better than I expected! :O but it's still a WIP, I'll work on it some more later tonight :)
    Could definitely use some sharpening, and I'll have to redo the feet, but I'm glad everything is lined up right for once ^^
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  5. Post #245
    Gold Member
    MindMuncher's Avatar
    November 2008
    1,861 Posts
    yeah... I do thikn the feet are fairly important on something that is basically a head and some legs with large three-toed feet. it's one of the main aspects. In the movies I particularyly lke how they seemed heavy one thier feet and you know the part about the feet with the feet and feet, feet-fe-feet the feet and feet about the you know feet. Feet.
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  6. Post #246
    Gold Member
    Blargtastic's Avatar
    August 2008
    5,028 Posts
    yeah... I do thikn the feet are fairly important on something that is basically a head and some legs with large three-toed feet. it's one of the main aspects. In the movies I particularyly lke how they seemed heavy one thier feet and you know the part about the feet with the feet and feet, feet-fe-feet the feet and feet about the you know feet. Feet.
    Feet.
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  7. Post #247
    Gold Member
    MindMuncher's Avatar
    November 2008
    1,861 Posts

    That was the point I was- FEET - trying to get across...




    - FEET -
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  8. Post #248
    FritoMaster's Avatar
    December 2008
    138 Posts
    Foot

    But more importantly, The skin can do nothing but get better so don't worry about the feet my guess it will look better at the time of completing this.
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  9. Post #249
    Gold Member
    MindMuncher's Avatar
    November 2008
    1,861 Posts
    I was assuming (feet) that that would be the case. i'm actually not too worried about it right now but I will be later if it isn't fixed very soon.
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  10. Post #250
    CrazyChcken's Avatar
    April 2008
    793 Posts
    I really like the way the head looks on the skin but you serously need to fix the feet D:
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  11. Post #251
    FritoMaster's Avatar
    December 2008
    138 Posts

    Added more stuff to the vmt.
    So now he glows like a vort.
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  12. Post #252
    Gold Member
    Blargtastic's Avatar
    August 2008
    5,028 Posts
    That actually looks really good! keep at it!
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  13. Post #253
    Gold Member
    MindMuncher's Avatar
    November 2008
    1,861 Posts
    I like it alot, but I think the flap bottom and the bit of skull under it thats some sort of sensory organ needs to blend with the surrounding skull more... it' looks like he got a labotomy and they forgot to stitch him up right now.
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  14. Post #254
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    I like it alot, but I think the flap bottom and the bit of skull under it thats some sort of sensory organ needs to blend with the surrounding skull more... it' looks like he got a labotomy and they forgot to stitch him up right now.
    That is the Shrieker's heat sensor, and it actually IS pretty sheer like that. The flaps protect it and they raise when the Shrieker wants to really look something over and confirm a target it thinks it sees. The sensor very much looks like and probably IS an exposed sector of it's brain, and when it's first seen, it's very surprising because everything else about the head was bony up till this point.
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  15. Post #255
    FritoMaster's Avatar
    December 2008
    138 Posts
    Snakkkke!
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  16. Post #256
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    *Phew*

    Another hard run, and the Graboid's rig is complete, especially including, those tedious fucking tongues...

    I really hope you guys appreciate the sleep deprivation I put myself through...
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  17. Post #257
    Gold Member
    edja007's Avatar
    September 2006
    2,404 Posts
    Looks nice, will it be ragdolled and animated?
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  18. Post #258
    FritoMaster's Avatar
    December 2008
    138 Posts
    Yes it will be.
    and it will be come an snpc.

    Sidenote: SNAKKKKKKKE (Srry I finally got to play mgs4.)
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  19. Post #259
    Gold Member
    MindMuncher's Avatar
    November 2008
    1,861 Posts
    yeah, but can it be at least a little fuzzed around the edges? That flap couldn't protect the edges that well... and it wouldn't be hard to fuzz up just a wee bit. if not then it's okay, I just feel like something was missed. And did you do something a bout the feet? They look a little better in that new screenshot... not sure if it's the perspective.
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  20. Post #260
    CrazyChcken's Avatar
    April 2008
    793 Posts
    Yes it will be.
    and it will be come an snpc.

    Sidenote: SNAKKKKKKKE (Srry I finally got to play mgs4.)
    Nice avatar XD
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  21. Post #261
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    Oi...

    Well, I was certainly surprised to see no posts here in all this time, but I've got news I think folks will want to hear.

    I went and built a collision model for the graboid, which will include some movement of the front-most parts of the tongues. Had to give the head a couple separate collision pieces in order to make a border for the throat, so the tongues didn't just stick through it's head.

    But that's not the interesting part. What was interesting (and actually upsetting, really) was that on opening the graboid in the model viewer, I noticed his UVW coordinates had been fucked straight to Hell. Nothing in the way of QC editing, renaming or anything of that sort helped. Eventually, I re-imported the reference smd to see if the UVW's were present, and they were not.

    Each time I've exported the Graboid, it's UVW's have failed. This has occurred since Fritomaster first wanted a copy of the model to texture with. It happened again when he wanted to use it for ZBrush. The UVW's were simply not there after exporting.

    So, I went for broke and destroyed the Graboid's entire UVW map, and added a new version on top of the rig. Thankfully, Max allows you to save UVW coordinates in files you can open later (in case you want to revert or something). On doing so, nothing SEEMINGLY happened in Max, as the UVW's had never had a problem in Max before. But re-importing the .smd proved that it had been fixed, for the material was applied perfectly, immediately.

    So, I recompiled, opened model viewer, and lo and behold, the UVW's were working properly once more :)

    So, to Frito, or anyone who needs them the Graboid's UVW's work now.

    I'd work on hitboxes and setting the constraints for the ragdoll and such, but I'm a bit tired... getting the UVW's working again is enough for me at the moment. I was almost sure I'd lost the UVW's entirely, or maybe even lost the model somehow. So yeah, I'm happy right now :)
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  22. Post #262
    FritoMaster's Avatar
    December 2008
    138 Posts
    Cool cool, Send me the file over steam later today then.
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  23. Post #263
    devmon's Avatar
    July 2007
    256 Posts
    Oi...

    Well, I was certainly surprised to see no posts here in all this time, but I've got news I think folks will want to hear.

    I went and built a collision model for the graboid, which will include some movement of the front-most parts of the tongues. Had to give the head a couple separate collision pieces in order to make a border for the throat, so the tongues didn't just stick through it's head.

    But that's not the interesting part. What was interesting (and actually upsetting, really) was that on opening the graboid in the model viewer, I noticed his UVW coordinates had been fucked straight to Hell. Nothing in the way of QC editing, renaming or anything of that sort helped. Eventually, I re-imported the reference smd to see if the UVW's were present, and they were not.

    Each time I've exported the Graboid, it's UVW's have failed. This has occurred since Fritomaster first wanted a copy of the model to texture with. It happened again when he wanted to use it for ZBrush. The UVW's were simply not there after exporting.

    So, I went for broke and destroyed the Graboid's entire UVW map, and added a new version on top of the rig. Thankfully, Max allows you to save UVW coordinates in files you can open later (in case you want to revert or something). On doing so, nothing SEEMINGLY happened in Max, as the UVW's had never had a problem in Max before. But re-importing the .smd proved that it had been fixed, for the material was applied perfectly, immediately.

    So, I recompiled, opened model viewer, and lo and behold, the UVW's were working properly once more :)

    So, to Frito, or anyone who needs them the Graboid's UVW's work now.

    I'd work on hitboxes and setting the constraints for the ragdoll and such, but I'm a bit tired... getting the UVW's working again is enough for me at the moment. I was almost sure I'd lost the UVW's entirely, or maybe even lost the model somehow. So yeah, I'm happy right now :)

    Awesome.
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  24. Post #264
    Gold Member
    Blargtastic's Avatar
    August 2008
    5,028 Posts
    Oi...

    Well, I was certainly surprised to see no posts here in all this time, but I've got news I think folks will want to hear.

    I went and built a collision model for the graboid, which will include some movement of the front-most parts of the tongues. Had to give the head a couple separate collision pieces in order to make a border for the throat, so the tongues didn't just stick through it's head.

    But that's not the interesting part. What was interesting (and actually upsetting, really) was that on opening the graboid in the model viewer, I noticed his UVW coordinates had been fucked straight to Hell. Nothing in the way of QC editing, renaming or anything of that sort helped. Eventually, I re-imported the reference smd to see if the UVW's were present, and they were not.

    Each time I've exported the Graboid, it's UVW's have failed. This has occurred since Fritomaster first wanted a copy of the model to texture with. It happened again when he wanted to use it for ZBrush. The UVW's were simply not there after exporting.

    So, I went for broke and destroyed the Graboid's entire UVW map, and added a new version on top of the rig. Thankfully, Max allows you to save UVW coordinates in files you can open later (in case you want to revert or something). On doing so, nothing SEEMINGLY happened in Max, as the UVW's had never had a problem in Max before. But re-importing the .smd proved that it had been fixed, for the material was applied perfectly, immediately.

    So, I recompiled, opened model viewer, and lo and behold, the UVW's were working properly once more :)

    So, to Frito, or anyone who needs them the Graboid's UVW's work now.

    I'd work on hitboxes and setting the constraints for the ragdoll and such, but I'm a bit tired... getting the UVW's working again is enough for me at the moment. I was almost sure I'd lost the UVW's entirely, or maybe even lost the model somehow. So yeah, I'm happy right now :)

    Phew! That was a close one!
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  25. Post #265
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    Well, I went and did all my ragdoll work and compiled the graboid, but I suspected from the beginning that there would be issues with the collision model. Mainly because, the collision model was shown in model viewer to be set somewhere below and behind the model itself. I think what hapenned is that the references for the collision model and for the graboid model are in different places...

    I'm going to see if I can rectify this in Max. As it is, when I spawn the graboid ragdoll, it appears as a lump somewhere halfway in the ground off to my left, like it's been crumpled up and tossed aside, and if not viewed from the right angle or distance, it vanishes...
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  26. Post #266
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts


    Fixed what was wrong with the positioning, collision model in place, ragdoll done...

    But I'm at a loss to explain wtf is happening here...

    ...help? ;_;
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  27. Post #267
    Stratos117's Avatar
    December 2008
    28 Posts


    Fixed what was wrong with the positioning, collision model in place, ragdoll done...

    But I'm at a loss to explain wtf is happening here...

    ...help? ;_;
    O.O looks like it hit one too many rocks
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  28. Post #268
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    Yeah, no kidding...And I really don't know what's causing this.

    I know there's usually a limit to how many bones can be ragdolls...but what is that limit, exactly? Could that be it? Are there too many bones in the ragdoll, so it's eliminated the bone system entirely, resulting in this?

    You'd think the compiler would give you a warning or something...

    Also, do you have to specify that a certain bone is NOT a ragdoll? Normally I'd say that any bone with a collision model attached to it would be considered a viable ragdoll, except what if you need that part to collide with an npc?

    Or wait, is a model's hitbox used for collisions when it's an npc? That sounds like it would be right...so the collision model is only for when it's a model or ragdoll...So, if a part isn't ragdolled, it doesn't need a collision model?

    I'm confused... is anybody here more knowledgeable on this?
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  29. Post #269
    Gold Member
    Lord Ned's Avatar
    April 2006
    3,702 Posts
    128 bones is the limit.
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  30. Post #270
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    128 bones is the limit.
    Oh, hehe. Well no, I don't think I've gone THAT crazy X]
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  31. Post #271
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    Ulgh...

    Well, hitboxes work now, I suppose. They weren't before, but they are now. I still don't get bullet wounds on the Shrieker for some reason despite this, but while the Graboid still looks like he tried to eat himself, I can at least give HIM bullet wounds, which is somewhat an improvement.

    It seems what is hapenning is that the model cancels out skeleton and uses the center of the map as a central bone, where every part spawns to. In Construct it's the same spots that certain snpc's would gravitate towards when they were buggy.

    A thought, however, has occurred to me, in that I know the collision model's skeleton is allowed to be different from the reference skeleton as long as it shares certain bones (I believe). But Instead, I kept the entire skeleton, although several of the tongue bones do NOT have a collision piece connected to them. I'm wondering if that is the cause of the problem, and I intend to experiment to see if I am right.

    If anyone wants to jump in here, please do so.
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  32. Post #272
    Gold Member
    Rodwy's Avatar
    July 2007
    267 Posts
    I used to have this problem, the eating itself bit, it ended up being an issue of the vertexes not being rigged to the bones in the manner I intended.

    In the model viewer view collision model and skeleton, do they both appear around and in the model respectively?

    The bullet wound bit has to do with the collision model in relation to the model, Shoot different areas of the shrieker to see if it will get bullet holes elsewhere.

    The bones without collisions can cause a problem as the compiler will automatically create a collision model based an which vertexes each bone uses, and since certain bones may share vertexes to make bending look better the collision model pieces will overlap. Too many overlapping collisions and the model will get screwed up in game.
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  33. Post #273
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    I used to have this problem, the eating itself bit, it ended up being an issue of the vertexes not being rigged to the bones in the manner I intended.

    In the model viewer view collision model and skeleton, do they both appear around and in the model respectively?

    The bullet wound bit has to do with the collision model in relation to the model, Shoot different areas of the shrieker to see if it will get bullet holes elsewhere.

    The bones without collisions can cause a problem as the compiler will automatically create a collision model based an which vertexes each bone uses, and since certain bones may share vertexes to make bending look better the collision model pieces will overlap. Too many overlapping collisions and the model will get screwed up in game.
    Yes, the bones and collision model are all lined up together, if that's what you're asking.

    I've shot the Shrieker up everywhere I can think to shoot and I haven't seen a single bullet wound, though the shots certainly are hitting him.

    Right now I have a different skeleton for the collision model. I took out the un-collided bones and instead linked the remaining bones to the neck, so each bone has it's own collision piece. I don't *think* there are any overlapping between the bits of collision model...

    This is the current collision model, in case it betrays any secrets I've yet to detect.

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  34. Post #274
    CrazyChcken's Avatar
    April 2008
    793 Posts
    Sucks that those problems occured J-Dude I wish I could help but I know nothing about modeling. As for more bad news thats unrelated I found my map exceled the max source ents by 70% I didn't reliaze til it crashed on start with the classic "no free edics" popup... Today I learned the importance of the magic compile log...

    Edit:

    I also learned that the source engine can run over 60% what it says it can. Also J-Dude have you thought about scraping the colusion and hitboxes and redo them?
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  35. Post #275
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    The hitboxes are fine, they're rebuilt each time they're compiled. There's no reason for me to entirely redo the collision model, it's just a bunch of parts, each one easily replaced, and there's no reason at all that the collision pieces themselves are corrupted; they're simple geometry; there's extremely little wiggle-room for it to fuck up that way.
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  36. Post #276
    CrazyChcken's Avatar
    April 2008
    793 Posts
    Snip.

    I see. Well when the shit hits the fan in source for me I redo it.
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  37. Post #277
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts
    "What next in the parade of constant interruptions?!"

    Frito refereed me to a guy called Mariokart who does a lot of ragdolling, and he told me you could have a maximum of 24 collision model pieces in a single ragdoll. A might bit larger than 128, although maybe 128 refers to bones overall in a single model...

    Anyway, I went back and snipped collision models, but kept the skeleton, since the physmodels of other models proved to have far more bones than collision models in them.

    Instead of seriously diluting the tongues pose-ability, I deleted all but the front four rows of tongue collision models, and went in later for the actual ragdoll pose and tucked the tongue away inside the stomach except for those bits with the collision models, which will flop out, though not be especially long.

    After setting up however, my computer decided my trials of suffering were not yet over, so while compiling it gives me the following error message:

    Code:
    ERROR: Rotation constraint on bone "spine2" which has no parent!!!
    As intriguing as it is to see this message needed to be emphasized with three exclamation points, I was no doubt puzzled and annoyed at this development.

    My understanding here, is that it's telling me that this bone is being told it can only rotate a set distance, but a parent bone (spine1) to rotate off of is missing somehow.

    Not unrelated, spine 1 is one of the bones I removed a collision model from, and is as a result, not detected. I'm sure if it were allowed to continue, the compiler would complain about bones further down from the root, like the neck, or most of the tongue bones.

    And yet I know that other models are beyond this problem. They have a full skeleton while only a few select bones have collision models, the others left to themselves. How did THEY avoid the detection of the compiler?

    I'll look further into this, for there MUST be an answer here. This problem though, sounds like the result of something simple being forgotten, the final hurdle before the finish line.

    Anyone more knowledgeable can jump in at any time of course. But I feel so SURE that we're CLOSE now...
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  38. Post #278
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,646 Posts



    "Hey Earl! I found the ass-end!"

    Well, perhaps not ideal, but it's progress X]

    Turns out our little answer was in the "$jointmerge" function, which according to this, I'm a bit removed from mastering...

    All the same, I much prefer slinky graboid over gastro-suicide graboid. At least it moves now, although I'm unsure s to why the tongues are back in their fully extended position when they ought to be ticked into the stomach...

    But, I'll leave that mystery till later. This, I think, is enough to be done with, particularly at 4 in the morning...
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  39. Post #279
    Heilos's Avatar
    September 2006
    98 Posts
    This is the worm in slow motion. View the motion blur, view your doom.


    >.>


    I hope I don't have these same problems when I rig my mech, I hope you find a way to fix these, I love those movies.
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  40. Post #280
    Fedeita's Avatar
    November 2008
    27 Posts
    lol a spastic worm
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