1. Post #1
    DERAILER OF THREADS DESTROYER OF IDIOTS
    Emperor Scorpious II's Avatar
    February 2009
    25,475 Posts
    MUNICH A court in Munich ruled Friday that the trial of accused Nazi guard John Demjanjuk can go forward, The Associated Press reported.

    Trial dates haven't yet been set for the ailing, retired Ohio autoworker, who was deported in May to Germany. At issue was whether he was medically fit to stand trial.

    Demjanjuk, 89, is accused of serving as a guard at a death camp where approximately 29,000 Jews and others were killed. He is charged with being an accessory to their murders.

    The Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk says he was a Red Army soldier who was captured by the Nazis, spent the rest of the war as their prisoner and never hurt anyone.

    There are Nazi-era documents that suggest otherwise including a photo ID identifying Demjanjuk as a guard at the Sobibor death camp and saying he was trained at a facility for Nazi guards at Trawniki.The Munich state court said Friday that it has accepted the charge sheet against Demjanjuk, a necessary step in German legal proceedings.

    It says in a statement that specific dates have not yet been set but that proceedings likely will start "at the beginning of November."

    Demjanjuk faces charges of being an accessory to the murder of 27,900 people at the Sobibor death camp in Nazi-occupied Poland where prosecutors allege he served as a guard.

    Demjanjuk, who was stripped of his American citizenship in 2002, is likely to spend the rest of his life in Germany, either in jail or in a home for the elderly.

    Questions have been raised about Demjanjuk's health.

    Dramatic photos released this spring showed him wincing in apparent pain as he was removed by immigration agents from his home in Seven Hills, Ohio. However, images taken only days earlier and released by the U.S. government showed him entering his car unaided outside a medical office.

    Demjanjuk's son, John Demjanjuk Jr., said in May that his father is dying of leukemic bone marrow disease and may not even survive the flight from Cleveland to Munich.
    Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    Wow we better hope we get him executed as swiftly as possible, it's not like you can't kill someone who was allegedly a guard 60 years ago.

    For the love of god do I have to stamp SARCASM all over my post. Don't they really teach reading in schools these days.
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  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    iamgnome's Avatar
    June 2006
    926 Posts
    Wasn't he just following orders?
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  4. Post #4
    sebbonaparta's Avatar
    September 2007
    466 Posts
    I'm really not sure how I feel about this. While the dude was a complete asshole, I think he was just a weak man forced by a misguided hand to do what he did during the war. After the war he led a normal life in Ohio, so it's apparent that he is more than capable of being a normal, law-abiding citizen.

    So bottom line: guy was a prick, but it was due to his situation and it was legal at the time. Not sure if he should have to spend his life (or what's left of it) in jail for this.
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    Wasn't he just following orders?
    Yeah he was *slamming the card to the desk* BUT HITLER

    Edited:

    so bottom line: Guy was a prick, but it was due to his situation and it was legal at the time. Not sure if he should have to spend his life (or what's left of it) in jail for this.
    Oh BUT HITLER
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    d3450's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,809 Posts
    That should teach him for being a damn nazi.
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  7. Post #7
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts
    Wasn't he just following orders?
    Not exactly:

    Demjanjuk's claims are pretty hard to believe. He was a guard at Sobibor - one of the camps established under the "Reinhard Action" system of death camps, I think the camp commandant was Fritz Stangl. Reportedly, Demjanjuk used to slice the noses and ears off elderly Jews going into the gas chambers. Whilst he was following orders, his orders only extended to ensure that the Jews were forced into the chambers efficiently.

    For all those saying he was just following orders, bear in mind that Ukraine was virulently anti-semitic, even before the arrival of the Nazis. Demjanjuk was a native Ukrainian, so he went above and beyond the call of duty in ensuring Jewish prisoners suffered before being put to death.
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  8. Post #8
    DERAILER OF THREADS DESTROYER OF IDIOTS
    Emperor Scorpious II's Avatar
    February 2009
    25,475 Posts
    Wow we better hope we get him executed as swiftly as possible, it's not like you can't kill someone who was allegedly a guard 60 years ago.
    Said he'll most likely get life in prison. Plus, he's got bone marrow disease so he'll probably croak soon anyways.

  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    iamgnome's Avatar
    June 2006
    926 Posts
    Not exactly:

    Demjanjuk's claims are pretty hard to believe. He was a guard at Sobibor - one of the camps established under the "Reinhard Action" system of death camps, I think the camp commandant was Fritz Stangl. Reportedly, Demjanjuk used to slice the noses and ears off elderly Jews going into the gas chambers. Whilst he was following orders, his orders only extended to ensure that the Jews were forced into the chambers efficiently.

    For all those saying he was just following orders, bear in mind that Ukraine was virulently anti-semitic, even before the arrival of the Nazis. Demjanjuk was a native Ukrainian, so he went above and beyond the call of duty in ensuring Jewish prisoners suffered before being put to death.
    Damn.
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  10. Post #10
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts
    The real cruncher is that the Nazis destroyed all the Reinhard Action camps, replacing them with newly-constructed farms, most of which had occupants who promised to tell anyone investigating that they had been living there for decades. So definitive evidence is difficult to find.
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  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    Negrul1's Avatar
    November 2007
    5,326 Posts
    Not exactly:

    Demjanjuk's claims are pretty hard to believe. He was a guard at Sobibor - one of the camps established under the "Reinhard Action" system of death camps, I think the camp commandant was Fritz Stangl. Reportedly, Demjanjuk used to slice the noses and ears off elderly Jews going into the gas chambers. Whilst he was following orders, his orders only extended to ensure that the Jews were forced into the chambers efficiently.

    For all those saying he was just following orders, bear in mind that Ukraine was virulently anti-semitic, even before the arrival of the Nazis. Demjanjuk was a native Ukrainian, so he went above and beyond the call of duty in ensuring Jewish prisoners suffered before being put to death.
    It would be good if the source actually mentioned any of that.
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  12. Post #12
    Gold Member
    Haywood's Avatar
    October 2006
    639 Posts
    Wasn't he just following orders?
    The "following orders" excuse didn't work back in Nuremberg, what makes you think it'll work now?
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  13. Post #13
    Positive energy is space expanding, negative energy is space contracting. Or reverse?
    onebit's Avatar
    July 2005
    6,478 Posts
    Haven't we learned anything from the Milgram experiments?
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  14. Post #14
    DERAILER OF THREADS DESTROYER OF IDIOTS
    Emperor Scorpious II's Avatar
    February 2009
    25,475 Posts
    Haven't we learned anything from the Milgram experiments?
    What are the Milgram experiments?

  15. Post #15
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts
    Negrul1 posted:
    It would be good if the source actually mentioned any of that.
    Well, in order not to be misleading, I used the word "reportedly" to discuss the only unproven thing I mentioned, which is Demjanjuk's conduct - which is what this trial is attempting to determine.

    Everything else is already fact:

    Action Reinhard:
    http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...n_reinhard.htm

    Fritz Stangl:
    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...6/Franz-Stangl

    Pre-war Anti-Semitism in the Ukraine:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...y_20th_Century
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocau...2.80.931943.29

    Just because something isn't in one article from Fox News doesn't make it untrue.
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  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    Minorkos's Avatar
    June 2007
    1,798 Posts
    Still, he shouldn't get punished for something he did 60 years ago or so.
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  17. Post #17
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts
    Still, he shouldn't get punished for something he did 60 years ago or so.
    So if somebody commits a crime (if he did) and gets away with it, they shouldn't be punished?

  18. Post #18
    DERAILER OF THREADS DESTROYER OF IDIOTS
    Emperor Scorpious II's Avatar
    February 2009
    25,475 Posts
    Still, he shouldn't get punished for something he did 60 years ago or so.
    Why? If Hitler didn't kill himself, and went into hiding, and was discoverd some 30-40 years later, are you saying he shouldn't of be punished because "it was a long time ago"?

    (I say 30-40 because it would of been impossible for him to live 60 years after WWII)
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  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2005
    1,910 Posts
    What are the Milgram experiments?
    A measure on people's obedience when taking orders from someone with authority even when it goes against the individual's morals or feelings

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    16,694 Posts
    A measure on people's obedience when taking orders from someone with authority even when it goes against the individual's morals or feelings
    Basically it involved a shock collar and commands for people to do things they generally wouldn't do.

  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    M2k3's Avatar
    February 2005
    2,095 Posts
    From the sounds of it the amount of evidence they have against this guy is ridiculously vague and stupid. It's such a waste of time and resources to try prosecute this guy. Even if he did "assist" in the killing of thousands of people he was following orders, the person giving the orders should be prosecuted not the person following them. If he didn't follow orders he probably would've been shot.
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  22. Post #22
    deathbringerhcm's Avatar
    May 2009
    473 Posts
    Wasn't he just following orders?
    If that's the case, I'm going to get my friend to go and kill 200,000+ plus people and HEY!, He's just following orders, no problem here. :geno:
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    iamgnome's Avatar
    June 2006
    926 Posts
    If that's the case, I'm going to get my friend to go and kill 200,000+ plus people and HEY!, He's just following orders, no problem here. :geno:
    You're not in a war, it's not your job to kill people, you got a crazy friend.
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  24. Post #24
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts
    You're not in a war, it's not your job to kill people, you got a crazy friend.
    The Nazis weren't in a war against the Jews. They were officially at war with Britain (+ colonies), France (+ colonies) and Russia at that point. What the Nazis did was a policy of ethnic cleansing, simply liquidating the Jewish poulation of Eastern Europe because that's what the doctrine said they should do. Why do you think they were tried for war crimes? They were crimes committed whilst they were at war.

  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    Boba_Fett's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,167 Posts
    Just let him go.
    He was brainwashed like every other Nazi during the war by countless speeches.
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  26. Post #26
    Gold Member

    November 2005
    11,757 Posts
    Just let him go.
    He was brainwashed like every other Nazi during the war by countless speeches.
    Hitler did have some good ideas, it's just that the Jew Killing was a bit off.

    If you were an Industrial Manufacturer in Hitler's time, you benefitted very well.
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  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    Boba_Fett's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,167 Posts
    Hitler was a socialist, which is evil.
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  28. Post #28
    Gold Member

    November 2005
    11,757 Posts
    Hitler was a socialist, which is evil.
    Socialism > Capitalism.

    Capitalism is Evil.
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  29. Post #29
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    If you were an Industrial Manufacturer in Hitler's time, you benefitted very well.
    One reasons the ones with a lot of capital were behind him, either him or communism.

  30. Post #30
    Gold Member

    November 2005
    11,757 Posts
    No, Hitler wanted the Industry's to make lots of mechanical stuff so he had weapons to start a war.

  31. Post #31
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    Hitler was a socialist, which is evil.
    Yo, Nazi Germany was Fascist. Not socialist.
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  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    41,877 Posts
    Killing people is wrong even when the government tells you to do it.

    Now think about this in regards to the death penalty.

  33. Post #33
    Gold Member

    November 2005
    11,757 Posts
    Yo, Nazi Germany was Fascist. Not socialist.
    Yo, I heard you were brainwashed by Mainstream Media Propaganda.
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  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    16,694 Posts
    Yo, I heard you were brainwashed by Mainstream Media Propaganda.
    It's Fascist, not Socialist.

  35. Post #35
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    Killing people is wrong even when the government tells you to do it.

    Now think about this in regards to the death penalty.
    I think it's more of a Nazi stereotype that people are influenced by, not that he killed people because the government told him to. If we were to prosecute everyone under that logic we would prosecute our own soldiers.

    I know you were trying to skew it into some anti-death-penalty speech but it's totally different than a Nazi executioner.

    However, the guy was just a guard and if he really didn't slaughter the prisoners directly or do that weird torture that a previous poster was talking about, I think accessory to thousands of murders is a bit much.

    Edited:

    Yo, I heard you were brainwashed by Mainstream Media Propaganda.
    Okay

  36. Post #36
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    It's Fascist, not Socialist.
    It was both, there was the socialistic thingies going on in the background of the genocides and whatnot.
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  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,288 Posts
    From the sounds of it the amount of evidence they have against this guy is ridiculously vague and stupid. It's such a waste of time and resources to try prosecute this guy. Even if he did "assist" in the killing of thousands of people he was following orders, the person giving the orders should be prosecuted not the person following them. If he didn't follow orders he probably would've been shot.
    The "Just following orders" excuse is bull shit in most cases,this being one. By your logic Charles Manson's family should be let go, after all it was he who was giving the orders.

    This man was part of a machine that murdered people like animals. No sympathy should be had.
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  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    Thomo's Avatar
    March 2007
    4,533 Posts
    He is 89 years old fuck sake. Why bother.
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  39. Post #39
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    The "Just following orders" excuse is bull shit in most cases,this being one. By your logic Charles Manson's family should be let go, after all it was he who was giving the orders.
    If you are in the army and are ordered to take down an enemy building, did it occur to your mind that the Taliban are on the right side and you should disobey to save yourself?

  40. Post #40
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    The "Just following orders" excuse is bull shit in most cases,this being one. By your logic Charles Manson's family should be let go, after all it was he who was giving the orders.

    This man was part of a machine that murdered people like animals. No sympathy should be had.
    No that really isn't the same logic. Sorry.

    He was just a guard, he didn't commit any murders, plus he couldn't just leave, because then he would be drafted into the military or be forced to live under the radar with no public contact.

    Edited:

    you people suck with analogies
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