1. Post #41
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts
    If you are in the army and are ordered to take down an enemy building, did it occur to your mind that the Taliban are on the right side and you should disobey to save yourself?
    Yeah cos ya know, the Jews and the Taliban are totally similar. Are you suggesting the Nazis were right?
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  2. Post #42
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    Yeah cos ya know, the Jews and the Taliban are totally similar. Are you suggesting the Nazis were right?
    No I am not suggesting, just saying that really the world isn't so black and white that the guards knew that they were doing wrong and all.

    And I was putting Taliban and Nazis on the same side there. (Since you like to kill them it's probably ok)
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  3. Post #43
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,088 Posts
    If you are in the army and are ordered to take down an enemy building, did it occur to your mind that the Taliban are on the right side and you should disobey to save yourself?
    That sentence is kind of confusing but if I get the jest of what you are saying it is completely different. We are not talking about killing in combat due to orders, This is about the mass killing of unarmed civilians in a non combative setting.
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  4. Post #44
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    That sentence is kind of confusing but if I get the jest of what you are saying it is completely different. We are not talking about killing in combat due to orders, This is about the mass killing of unarmed civilians in a non combative setting.
    Read my post. He isn't doing a very good job of defending his point.
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  5. Post #45
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    That sentence is kind of confusing but if I get the jest of what you are saying it is completely different. We are not talking about killing in combat due to orders, This is about the mass killing of unarmed civilians in a non combative setting.
    Like Blackwater?

  6. Post #46
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,088 Posts
    No I am not suggesting, just saying that really the world isn't so black and white that the guards knew that they were doing wrong and all.

    And I was putting Taliban and Nazis on the same side there.
    I would like to think it is common knowledge to all different races and cultures that slaughtering defenseless men, women and children is wrong.
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  7. Post #47
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    Read my post. He isn't doing a very good job of defending his point.
    I am not defending any point just trying to open some eyes.

  8. Post #48
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    Like Blackwater?
    What does that have to do with anything

    Edited:

    I am not defending any point just trying to open some eyes.
    You're trying to make a point then, and you're not doing too well.

  9. Post #49
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts
    Yeah guys I know lets equate the Holocaust with any modern war because you know, the similarities are just ENDLESS!

    By the way, another flaw in the "he was just following orders" theory (IF he actually served at the camp, not saying he definitely did), is the fact that the majority of Ukranians (not Germans, Ukranians) who worked in camps were volunteers.

  10. Post #50
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    Yeah guys I know lets equate the Holocaust with the Gulf War because you know, the similarities are just ENDLESS!
    You are right since HITLER

  11. Post #51
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,088 Posts
    Like Blackwater?
    What are you talking about. No were in what I was responding to did you mention civilians in the fictional building were the Taliban were hiding. You compared combat to two militant forces to the slaughtering of civilians.

  12. Post #52
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    I would like to think it is common knowledge to all different races and cultures that slaughtering defenseless men, women and children is wrong.
    You are right since HITLER

  13. Post #53
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    Yeah guys I know lets equate the Holocaust with the Gulf War because you know, the similarities are just ENDLESS!
    The Gulf War?

    He's talking about The current War in Iraq.

  14. Post #54
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    What are you talking about. No were in what I was responding to did you mention civilians in the fictional building were the Taliban were hiding. You compared combat to two militant forces to the slaughtering of civilians.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwa...hdad_shootings

  15. Post #55
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    By the way, another flaw in the "he was just following orders" theory (IF he actually served at the camp, not saying he definitely did), is the fact that the majority of Ukranians (not Germans, Ukranians) who worked in camps were volunteers.
    Yeah you're right actually, he was Ukrainian. My bad.

    However, if his story stands up that he was a captured Red Army soldier than he shouldn't be punished.
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  16. Post #56
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,088 Posts
    Read what I posted. It has no relevance to what we were discussing.

  17. Post #57
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts

    However, if his story stands up that he was a captured Red Army soldier than he shouldn't be punished.
    Agreed. The tricky thing is proving it either way, seeing as it happened so long ago.

  18. Post #58
    Gold Member

    June 2005
    4,438 Posts
    Read what I posted. It has no relevance to what we were discussing.
    Yes you are right, nothing is relevant, sorry for posting.

  19. Post #59
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,088 Posts
    Yes you are right, nothing is relevant, sorry for posting.
    I'm a bit confused, show me what I posted that was in relation to the black water incident.

  20. Post #60
    Gold Member
    CaptainSnake's Avatar
    February 2006
    1,506 Posts
    God I don't understand why people want to put him on trial now that he's 89 years old.

    Good god putting an 89 man in jail will do nothing to avenge the hollocaust. You are creating more suffering because of many sufferings.

    And they don't view the story on his point of view. At the time he probably didn't know it would end like this or any better. He was following orders. If you didn't follow orders you'd most likely get shot and imprisoned. Its not like he asked to be an accessory to murder 27,000. Holy shit people.

    Someone needs to smack these bitches, hard.
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  21. Post #61
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    I'm a bit confused, show me what I posted that was in relation to the black water incident.
    He was trying to make a point about killing innocents or something but it's unnecessary and the analogy of the Iraq war was bad to begin with.

  22. Post #62
    Gold Member
    Boba_Fett's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,092 Posts
    Yo, Nazi Germany was Fascist. Not socialist.
    They're the same to me.

  23. Post #63
    Gold Member
    BusterBluth's Avatar
    November 2008
    4,088 Posts
    God I don't understand why people want to put him on trial now that he's 89 years old.

    Good god putting an 89 man in jail will do nothing to avenge the hollocaust. You are creating more suffering because of many sufferings.

    And they don't view the story on his point of view. At the time he probably didn't know it would end like this or any better. He was following orders. If you didn't follow orders you'd most likely get shot and imprisoned. Its not like he asked to be an accessory to murder 27,000. Holy shit people.

    Someone needs to smack these bitches, hard.
    Yes in fact he did ask to be an accessory to murder by volunteering there.
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  24. Post #64
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    They're the same to me.
    Well that's completely wrong and they are nothing the same.

    Take a government class.

  25. Post #65
    Gold Member
    Boba_Fett's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,092 Posts
    Well that's completely wrong and they are nothing the same.

    Take a government class.
    I have. The Italians basically enslaved their people during WW2, as did the Russians. They may be on the opposite side of the political spectrum, but either way, they people ended up enslaved and poor. Communism promised that everyone equally shares, but it didn't work that way in Russia during the Cold War era. The government kept all the power, which in my eyes, is just like fascism, but with a false promise involved.

  26. Post #66
    Gold Member

    February 2006
    2,985 Posts
    Hitler was a socialist, which is evil.
    You are so dumb it's ridiculous

  27. Post #67
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    I have. The Italians basically enslaved their people during WW2, as did the Russians. They may be on the opposite side of the political spectrum, but either way, they people ended up enslaved and poor. Communism promised that everyone equally shares, but it didn't work that way in Russia during the Cold War era. The government kept all the power, which in my eyes, is just like fascism, but with a false promise involved.
    Except that's totally wrong. Fascism is authoritarian with a dictator, and they don't have a command economy like Communism.

    The Communism in Russia never actually reached Communism. It was its own clusterfuck of a governmental system.

  28. Post #68
    Gold Member
    gnome's Avatar
    July 2005
    2,874 Posts
    I think this is stupid. He probably didn't even kill anyone himself, he was a FUCKING GUARD, doing his damn job.

  29. Post #69
    Gold Member
    Boba_Fett's Avatar
    August 2007
    9,092 Posts
    Except that's totally wrong. Fascism is authoritarian with a dictator, and they don't have a command economy like Communism.

    The Communism in Russia never actually reached Communism. It was its own clusterfuck of a governmental system.
    They both burn the same.

  30. Post #70
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    They both burn the same.
    Great.

  31. Post #71
    Gold Member
    gnome's Avatar
    July 2005
    2,874 Posts
    The "Just following orders" excuse is bull shit in most cases,this being one. By your logic Charles Manson's family should be let go, after all it was he who was giving the orders.

    This man was part of a machine that murdered people like animals. No sympathy should be had.
    Are you inept? People under Manson's command ACTUALLY killed people. This guy probably didn't kill anyone, and he was just doing as he was told. If he didn't do as he was ordered HE would probably be put to death. I mean, because he was a guard there over half a century ago suddenly he deserves to be jailed? Why? Is he a future threat to society? No.

  32. Post #72
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    I think this is stupid. He probably didn't even kill anyone himself, he was a FUCKING GUARD, doing his damn job.
    That is the whole argument.

    Edited:

    Are you inept? People under Manson's command ACTUALLY killed people. This guy probably didn't kill anyone, and he was just doing as he was told. If he didn't do as he was ordered HE would probably be put to death. I mean, because he was a guard there over half a century ago suddenly he deserves to be jailed? Why? Is he a future threat to society? No.
    Well there is a debate whether he was actually just doing his job or if he actually tortured people or if he was a Red Army prisoner of war. It's going to take so long to figure out what he actually did and to have a trial that unfortunately he probably won't make it to trial before his time is up.

  33. Post #73
    Gold Member
    gnome's Avatar
    July 2005
    2,874 Posts
    That is the whole argument.

    Edited:



    Well there is a debate whether he was actually just doing his job or if he actually tortured people or if he was a Red Army prisoner of war. It's going to take so long to figure out what he actually did and to have a trial that unfortunately he probably won't make it to trial before his time is up.
    Okay. But he's being charged as an accessory to murder, suggesting that they don't really care what he actually did, that he's just being convicted for having anything to do with it at all.

  34. Post #74
    SylarMinelli's Avatar
    July 2008
    67 Posts
    Are you inept? People under Manson's command ACTUALLY killed people. This guy probably didn't kill anyone, and he was just doing as he was told. If he didn't do as he was ordered HE would probably be put to death. I mean, because he was a guard there over half a century ago suddenly he deserves to be jailed? Why? Is he a future threat to society? No.
    You don't get jailed for what you're going to do. You get jailed for what you have done.

    Also, yet again, if he was a guard there, he wouldn't have been ORDERED on penalty of death. He would have been a volunteer, as all Ukrainians who worked in Extermination camps were.

  35. Post #75
    Gold Member
    gnome's Avatar
    July 2005
    2,874 Posts
    You don't get jailed for what you're going to do. You get jailed for what you have done.

    Also, yet again, if he was a guard there, he wouldn't have been ORDERED on penalty of death. He would have been a volunteer, as all Ukrainians who worked in Extermination camps were.
    I know how the system works, but that doesn't make it right. Jailing him is pointless. He's probably nearing the end of his life anyway.

  36. Post #76
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    Okay. But he's being charged as an accessory to murder, suggesting that they don't really care what he actually did, that he's just being convicted for having anything to do with it at all.
    They do care, that's the whole point of the trial. They are trying to figure out what actually happened before making a judgement based on the fact that he was a scary Nazi.
    (i hope)

    Edited:

    I know how the system works, but that doesn't make it right. Jailing him is pointless. He's probably nearing the end of his life anyway.
    Like I said he probably won't even make it to trial. It's just fair to have one, because all the other ex Nazis had one.

  37. Post #77
    Gold Member
    gnome's Avatar
    July 2005
    2,874 Posts
    I would hope so, but maybe I should actually read up on it more before I go off on a rant about it.

    Yeah, but in this article and some others I've seen no mention that they're trying to determine what he actually did, just whether he was a guard there or not.

  38. Post #78
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    I would hope so, but maybe I should actually read up on it more before I go off on a rant about it.
    Yeah I did the same thing. I forgot he was Ukrainian, and thats totally different from German.
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  39. Post #79
    Gold Member
    massn7's Avatar
    October 2005
    1,628 Posts
    Wow, seriously?

    What are they going to do? The man is 89 and has a form of leukemia. Throwing him in prison would be a waste.

  40. Post #80
    MODS ARE FAGS's Avatar
    September 2009
    297 Posts
    Wow, seriously?

    What are they going to do? The man is 89 and has a form of leukemia. Throwing him in prison would be a waste.
    Like I said, he probably won't make it to prison.