1. Post #921
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    They can tunnel through if they know the coordinates (universal coordinates)
    Which is why the rocket you launch helped them discover our universe.
    but with their current technology they where dependent on local transportation (airships etc)

    Basically, if they knew about a universe, they could teleport in at a certain location, but not anywhere else inside the dimension; That's why Eli and Kliner's used Xen as (effectively) a dimensional slingshot, you teleport there and then from there back into our universe at a location you wanted to go to.
    What. No.

    Early stage teleporters used Xen as a slingshot, later ones no longer required it, hence why you had to configure it in Blue Shift but it was never referenced in other games.

    The Combine didn't know earth existed until they found it through Xen. So they were then able to tunnel from their universe into ours directly. However they only have long range teleportation, they do not have the ability for localised teleportation. Hence Nova Prospekt to the C17 Citadel, but not to any specific local area.

    Mossman posted:
    They can tunnel through from their universe, but once they're here they're dependent on local transportation. If they knew what we're doing with entanglement - Oh, listen to me, I sound like a post-doc.
    The rebels have access to localised teleportation technology, hence allowing them to make the short teleport from Kleiners lab to Eli's lab.

    Since the Combine lacked such technology prior to the raid on Eli's lab (Where they would have been able to acquire it) they were dependant on pre-existing transport networks with their own modified vehicles.

    The satellite Gordon launches simply enables the Lambdasat network which failed to seal the rift. This network is later reused in Episode 2 by Magnusson to close the combine superportal.
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  2. Post #922
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    What. No.

    Early stage teleporters used Xen as a slingshot, later ones no longer required it, hence why you had to configure it in Blue Shift but it was never referenced in other games.
    Wrong.

    Mossman mentions using Xen as a dimensional slingshot in the elevator ride down to the lab.
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  3. Post #923
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    Wrong.

    Mossman mentions using Xen as a dimensional slingshot in the elevator ride down to the lab.
    Probably connected to a pre-existing one since they would have had no means to get to Xen in the first place.

  4. Post #924
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    Probably connected to a pre-existing one since they would have had no means to get to Xen in the first place.
    pre-existing teleporter or relay?

    because if you mean teleporter you are implying they dissembled 2 teleporters from Black Mesa, which are the size of rooms, and somehow smuggled them into Eastern Europe without the Combine noticing.



    right.
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  5. Post #925
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    pre-existing teleporter or relay?
    Relay. I'm pretty sure the Americas are mostly abandoned now with all but small pockets of survivors and perhaps a Citadel in a population center.

  6. Post #926
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    Relay. I'm pretty sure the Americas are mostly abandoned now with all but small pockets of survivors and perhaps a Citadel in a population center.
    Then why can't they use the relay activated in Blue Shift?

    I still can't get over how convoluted Black Mesa's teleporters were compared to Aperture
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  7. Post #927
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,458 Posts
    Then why can't they use the relay activated in Blue Shift?

    I still can't get over how convoluted Black Mesa's teleporters were compared to Aperture
    I'm sure it helps that your teleportation technology is based on a game-defining gameplay mechanic.

    Edited:

    And if the Borealis was Apertures attempt at teleporting something large over a larger distance than rooms (not including the moon for obvious reasons) then theirs wasn't very effective either.
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  8. Post #928
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    I'm sure it helps that your teleportation technology is based on a game-defining gameplay mechanic.

    Edited:

    And if the Borealis was Apertures attempt at teleporting something large over a larger distance than rooms (not including the moon for obvious reasons) then theirs wasn't very effective either.
    well they had the portal gun before the borealis

    and apparently that uses black holes as its method of transportation

    Edited:

    I mean for Aperture it's just shoot here and shoot here

    Black Mesa is like "well we gotta send you to this hellish nightmare before we can get you down to Ms. Robinson's down the street"
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  9. Post #929
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    Then why can't they use the relay activated in Blue Shift?

    I still can't get over how convoluted Black Mesa's teleporters were compared to Aperture
    You have to remember that we have very little information on what happened between hl1 and hl2 and that valve consistently refuse to clarify any of it, not to mention that teleportation tech in the hl saga is incredibly sketchy.

    Magnusson was aware of the lambda relay and white forest base assuming that black mesa had somehow maintained some form of power shortly after the RC he could have simply downloaded all the data for teleportation co-ordinates, construction, etc.
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  10. Post #930
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    You have to remember that we have very little information on what happened between hl1 and hl2 and that valve consistently refuse to clarify any of it, not to mention that teleportation tech in the hl saga is incredibly sketchy.

    Magnusson was aware of the lambda relay and white forest base assuming that black mesa had somehow maintained some form of power shortly after the RC he could have simply downloaded all the data for teleportation co-ordinates, construction, etc.
    my point is that they still use Xen as a slingshot, instead of just in Blue Shift

    I have no idea what that last part has to do with that

  11. Post #931
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,458 Posts
    well they had the portal gun before the borealis

    and apparently that uses black holes as its method of transportation
    eh, as not to revive the previous discussion on whether the retcons in portal 2 affected the established plot in half-life storyline i'm not going to argue my opinion on the portal gun being invented in the fifties

    Apertures portal gun technology was reliant on both an entrance and an exit being established and only on certain surfaces, whereas the black mesa technology had the potential to teleport you anywhere on earth and xen (the same way gordon is teleported randomly around in hl2).

    Of course this doesn't explain why Eli and Kleiner had to use a teleporter entrance and exit (unless that was for conveniences sake)

  12. Post #932
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    eh, as not to revive the previous discussion on whether the retcons in portal 2 affected the established plot in half-life storyline i'm not going to argue my opinion on the portal gun being invented in the fifties

    Apertures portal gun technology was reliant on both an entrance and an exit being established and only on certain surfaces, whereas the black mesa technology had the potential to teleport you anywhere on earth and xen (the same way gordon is teleported randomly around in hl2).

    Of course this doesn't explain why Eli and Kleiner had to use a teleporter entrance and exit (unless that was for conveniences sake)
    but again, at least it's more straightforward, easy to operate, hasn't done something it wasn't supposed to a single time, and some conversion gel fixes that surface problem right up

    Edited:

    but why are we even talking about this it was an offhand comment

  13. Post #933
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,458 Posts
    indeed, far more important question is why gravitational pull doesn't travel through portals and crushes everything
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  14. Post #934
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    I have no idea what that last part has to do with that
    If Magnusson has the data > Simply input the slingshot. If they didn't have the data they wouldn't have been able to use it.

  15. Post #935
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    If Magnusson has the data > Simply input the slingshot. If they didn't have the data they wouldn't have been able to use it.
    ah ok

    what were we debating again?

  16. Post #936
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    ah ok

    what were we debating again?
    Personally I think we should all discuss the events post RC and what we think would have happened in the decade before the combine invasion and the decade after prior to gordons arrival.

  17. Post #937
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    Personally I think we should all discuss the events post RC and what we think would have happened in the decade before the combine invasion and the decade after prior to gordons arrival.
    decade before the combine's arrival? wasn't it right away?

  18. Post #938
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    decade before the combine's arrival? wasn't it right away?
    iirc the RC occurs in 200-. HL2 takes place in 202-.

    Combine are roughly presumed to be 201- because of the amount they've built up.


    (This is my super short version, I did write a longer one once)

    The way I see it is, after the RC the rift is incredibly active, aliens are being brought to earth alongside other pieces of xenian flora and fauna. Chunks of mass for islands, and all other kinds of things.

    The american government would probably collapse, with the military attempting to protect civilians. With civilians flocking to evacuation centres and eventually the largest cities becoming overcrowded population centres with a mixture of clashing cultures, disease, rioting and general breakdown of order.

    The military might of the world would be awfully fatigued after fighting such an alien presence, not to mention how portal storms would damage buildings, vehicles, aircraft, transport links and general infrastructure and probably disrupt communications.

    Combine invade, war lasts 7 hours. Major population centres are selected as prime targets for citadel usage (I.e. London, new york, etc), control of earth is surrendered.
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  19. Post #939
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    I always though pretty much immediately the combine swooped down, took advantage of the huge portal storms occurring, then started the 7 hour war

    In episode 2 the combine are trying to create a rift the size of the "first days" so the rest of the fleet can arrive.
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  20. Post #940
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    I always though pretty much immediately the combine swooped down, took advantage of the huge portal storms occurring, then started the 7 hour war

    In episode 2 the combine are trying to create a rift the size of the "first days" so the rest of the fleet can arrive.
    The portal storms started after the RC since the rift was never closed. Alyx's comment refers to those from when she was still a child. The Combines arrival and construction of the citadel (and whatever other structures) seemingly repaired the rift which also helps explain the lack of most other types of xenian flora.

    The combine are simply trying to open a super portal so they can get reinforcements in to quash the rebellion quickly before it spreads globally and they lose control.

  21. Post #941
    Dr. Conro J. Norock, Robot Sarcasm Master
    Conro101's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,714 Posts
    Exactly, the worst portal storms, and thus the best to travel with, happened right after the RC

  22. Post #942
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    Exactly, the worst portal storms, and thus the best to travel with, happened right after the RC
    The combine opened a portal directly to earth at fixed co-ordinates. Using a portal storm would have scattered them all over the place and made it incredibly disorganised.

    Hence why there were headcrabs and bullsquids in all kinds of weird places and the tentacles in the blast pit.

  23. Post #943
    Gold Member
    Jonii's Avatar
    January 2010
    868 Posts
    Portals are portals, holes in space, but teleporters disassemble you and reassemble you somewhere else. Aperture it seems could only get the holes so big with handheld tech, and GLaDOS took over before they tried attempting bigger portals. If the Borealis is a teleportation experiment gone wrong, that's different tech entirely, right?
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  24. Post #944
    UntouchedShadow's Avatar
    July 2009
    6,057 Posts
    The combine are simply trying to open a super portal so they can get reinforcements in to quash the rebellion quickly before it spreads globally and they lose control.
    They've already lost control. Since Freeman showed up, the Rebellion spread like wildfire and it's only a matter of time before the whole world gangs up on the pockets of Combine that are left over, completely cut off from any support.

    Just another reason Eli wants whatever is on the Borealis destroyed. Earth is pretty much winning now and he doesn't want the Rebellion to fuck it up by causing something worse to happen or by letting the Combine get their paws on it.

  25. Post #945
    Gold Member
    nightlord's Avatar
    May 2009
    7,402 Posts
    I've only just noticed the Portal gun apparantly has "Miniature surplus German Stick Grenades" in it, which were for throwing into the Black hole to restart it if it failed.
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  26. Post #946
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    I've only just noticed the Portal gun apparantly has "Miniature surplus German Stick Grenades" in it, which were for throwing into the Black hole to restart it if it failed.
    Portal 2's tech makes me want to cry at times. Albeit many things in P2 are very similar to Combine tech which makes me wonder if the Borealis was discovered a long long long time ago by the Combine.

  27. Post #947
    Gold Member
    Lordgeorge16's Avatar
    May 2010
    9,323 Posts
    ITT: We discuss physics more than mind fuckery.

    Edited:

    So let's get back on topic, shall we?
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  28. Post #948
    Gold Member
    nightlord's Avatar
    May 2009
    7,402 Posts
    Portal 2's tech makes me want to cry at times. Albeit many things in P2 are very similar to Combine tech which makes me wonder if the Borealis was discovered a long long long time ago by the Combine.
    The only similar thing the two have are the energy pellets and Turrets.

  29. Post #949
    Gabe Newell's Avatar
    March 2011
    1,556 Posts
    ITT: We discuss physics more than mind fuckery.

    Edited:

    So let's get back on topic, shall we?
    stop
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  30. Post #950
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    The only similar thing the two have are the energy pellets and Turrets.
    Energy Pellets, Energy Receptacles, Turrets, Hard Light Bridges (Episode 1)
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  31. Post #951
    Energy Pellets, Energy Receptacles, Turrets, Hard Light Bridges (Episode 1)
    Combine tech or just valve being lazy? You decide.
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  32. Post #952
    As far as we know, Aperture's portal technology was limited to Line-of-sight teleportation, but similarly Black Mesa's required sling-shotting (Which actually makes sense)
    Also Black Mesa's would not destroy the whole earth if something went wrong (as far as we know it uses a condensed black-hole ... in a gun)

    As for entanglement, that's not transportation; that's completely obliterating something in one universe; then reconstructing a completely exact copy in another place.

    edit:
    After most of the stuff in Portal that related to combine tech was either removed, or didn't play a part (Energy pellets, Non-stationary scaffolds, etc.) I consider it to be just VALVe laziness.

    Also; GearBox events are non-cannon unless stated otherwise; BlackMesa was really nuked, but that's about all that was confirmed.
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  33. Post #953
    Gold Member
    bIgFaTwOrM12's Avatar
    October 2010
    1,525 Posts
    teleportation != portals
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  34. Post #954
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    teleportation != portals
    Both exercise displacement fields.
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  35. Post #955
    Gold Member
    bIgFaTwOrM12's Avatar
    October 2010
    1,525 Posts
    Both exercise displacement fields.
    A what? They're completely different concepts that are in no way related, apart from the fact that they move stuff from point A to point B.
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  36. Post #956
    Gold Member
    Jonii's Avatar
    January 2010
    868 Posts
    Combine tech or just valve being lazy? You decide.
    Neither, but if I had to choose it'd sort of be laziness. Portal was an experiment, Valve wanting to test a concept, so it was a short, cheap game thrown into The Orange Box. When they decided it could take place in the HL universe, they were able to recycle resources from HL2 in order to cut costs and make the connection more obvious. Creating energy pellets could be two things:

    A. Combine stealing tech from Aperture when they come to earth
    B. Energy pellets being something that both Aperture and Combine figured out how to make independently of each other.
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  37. Post #957
    Gold Member
    nightlord's Avatar
    May 2009
    7,402 Posts
    The whole RED Vs BLU thing in TF2 has always confused me slightly, due to each owning half the land.

    It confuses me because there are things such as signs which are half in RED territory, and half in BLU. Did they build Half a sign and Hope the other team would finish it or something? I don't think either of them would let the other build in their territory.

    Then there's the Payload tracks - who placed them? I doubt the defending team would place tracks leading directly to a highly important object, but then how would the attacking team have placed them without being stopped?
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  38. Post #958
    "Epic Leddit pwner :)"
    UberMunchkin's Avatar
    March 2010
    12,375 Posts
    The whole RED Vs BLU thing in TF2 has always confused me slightly, due to each owning half the land.
    When Zepheniah Mann died, he decided to give his children Redmond and Blutarch all his land, but they had to split it between themselves. They couldn't share, and then they both got a team of mercenaries to kill the other brother and take their land.

    It confuses me because there are things such as signs which are half in RED territory, and half in BLU. Did they build Half a sign and Hope the other team would finish it or something? I don't think either of them would let the other build in their territory.

    Then there's the Payload tracks - who placed them? I doubt the defending team would place tracks leading directly to a highly important object, but then how would the attacking team have placed them without being stopped?
    That is probably the Administrator's doing to make it fair. Like how Elizabeth, one of her descendants asked Radigan Conagher to build a life support machine for both Redmond and Blutarch

    Edited:

    Out of anything creepy in TF2, it's probably the unknown man in the Mann family portrait. He's the guy concealed by the rip, and the guy who's identity is covered up in Zepheniah Mann's last will and testament.
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  39. Post #959
    UntouchedShadow's Avatar
    July 2009
    6,057 Posts
    Out of anything creepy in TF2, it's probably the unknown man in the Mann family portrait. He's the guy concealed by the rip, and the guy who's identity is covered up in Zepheniah Mann's last will and testament.
    My gut tells me it's the Pyro. Remember that in the loose cannon comic, there was also a third life extending machine built. If anything, the Pyro could still be Abe Lincoln.
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  40. Post #960
    Gold Member
    nightlord's Avatar
    May 2009
    7,402 Posts
    My gut tells me it's the Pyro. Remember that in the loose cannon comic, there was also a third life extending machine built. If anything, the Pyro could still be Abe Lincoln.
    How would they fit the life extending machine into that suit? The other ones are massive.
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