1. Post #5721
    Taepodong-2's Avatar
    December 2009
    13,530 Posts
    THE TAVAR THIRTY SIX

    The older version of the VHS that looked like a FAMAS was much better. There's also supposed to be a version with a G36 optic.

    Also they're taking so long to finalize a design for it that Croatia is pretty much ditching it for the G36 anyway.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Canada Show Events

  2. Post #5722
    No such thing as overkill.
    catbarf's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,925 Posts
    also lol carry handle. You don't need a carry handle on an assault rifle, that shit is so 90s.
    And where, master gunsmith, would the sights go?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 6 (list)

  3. Post #5723
    Lizzrd's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,792 Posts
    On the top side?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Norway Show Events

  4. Post #5724
    No such thing as overkill.
    catbarf's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,925 Posts
    On the top side?
    It's a bullpup. Have you ever tried firing a bullpup rifle without raised sights? It's not very intuitive and is more than a bit awkward. A carry handle is there to raise the sights so you don't have to wrench your head over at an awkward angle just to use the ironsights. They COULD just have very tall sights (like, for example, the Vepr prototypes), but they might as well just put them on a carry handle and add that little bit of extra functionality.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events

  5. Post #5725
    Bestest polish IFAPer
    BBOOBBYY!'s Avatar
    February 2007
    5,012 Posts
    Functionality that soldiers get into trouble for, because military doesn't allow them to carry their guns by the "carrying handle". Just because they appear to "lose muzzle control"
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Romania Show Events

  6. Post #5726
    Shotgun Guru
    notrabies's Avatar
    February 2009
    7,313 Posts
    I find the regular Tavor's sight does the job just fine.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events

  7. Post #5727
    No such thing as overkill.
    catbarf's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,925 Posts
    I find the regular Tavor's sight does the job just fine.
    Notice how the Tavor's sights are raised, extending upwards from the body to put them in the same sight plane as the optics that are almost always used instead- almost as tall as carry handle ironsights. Almost all bullpups that don't have carry handles have very tall sights, or they're mounted higher (like on the F2000). If the Tavor had AK or AR15 style sights, it'd be near-unusable.

    Carry handles aren't useless embellishment. Believe it or not, but the actual firearm design firm that created the weapon may know a little bit more about firearm design than random airsofters on the Internet.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events Zing Zing x 3Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  8. Post #5728
    Lizzrd's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,792 Posts
    Have you ever tried firing a bullpup rifle without raised sights?
    No, should I have?

    Edited:

    But yeah hadn't really thought about that.

    Still don't need the metal bridge between the sights though.

    Edited:

    But yeah hadn't really thought about that.

    Still don't need the metal bridge between the sights though.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Norway Show Events

  9. Post #5729
    Uncle Bourbon's Avatar
    November 2011
    4,754 Posts
    No, should I have?

    Edited:

    But yeah hadn't really thought about that.

    Still don't need the metal bridge between the sights though.

    Edited:

    But yeah hadn't really thought about that.

    Still don't need the metal bridge between the sights though.
    Maybe the carry handle is to increase it's structural strength?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows Vista Finland Show Events

  10. Post #5730
    Shotgun Guru
    notrabies's Avatar
    February 2009
    7,313 Posts
    Notice how the Tavor's sights are raised, extending upwards from the body to put them in the same sight plane as the optics that are almost always used instead- almost as tall as carry handle ironsights. Almost all bullpups that don't have carry handles have very tall sights, or they're mounted higher (like on the F2000). If the Tavor had AK or AR15 style sights, it'd be near-unusable.

    Carry handles aren't useless embellishment. Believe it or not, but the actual firearm design firm that created the weapon may know a little bit more about firearm design than random airsofters on the Internet.
    Uhh, that was my point though, you're stealing it.
    Raised sights are fine, carry handles are lame/not useful.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events

  11. Post #5731
    No such thing as overkill.
    catbarf's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,925 Posts
    Uhh, that was my point though, you're stealing it.
    Raised sights are fine, carry handles are lame/not useful.
    The point is, the only difference between the two is a bar of metal between the sights. Said bar of metal can also be used to carry the gun (whether an official practice or not), and provides a raised platform to put optics on, which has ergonomic advantages. There are other more minor things too, like structural integrity and keeping dirt away from the ejection port or charging handle.

    Part of the P90's design, for example, is the raised rail on which the ironsights are mounted. With a scope or sight, this allows the user to quickly and easily bring the gun to the shoulder, lining up naturally with the sight. It's the same principle as the Thompson's angled stock, but keeps the stock in line with the action, so it doesn't produce off-axis recoil.

    The point is that the carry handle is there for a reason. Have you ever wondered why issued M4s and M16s retain the carry handle, even though it's removable and could be ditched entirely?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events

  12. Post #5732
    Shotgun Guru
    notrabies's Avatar
    February 2009
    7,313 Posts
    The point is, the only difference between the two is a bar of metal between the sights. Said bar of metal can also be used to carry the gun (whether an official practice or not), and provides a raised platform to put optics on, which has ergonomic advantages. There are other more minor things too, like structural integrity and keeping dirt away from the ejection port or charging handle.

    Part of the P90's design, for example, is the raised rail on which the ironsights are mounted. With a scope or sight, this allows the user to quickly and easily bring the gun to the shoulder, lining up naturally with the sight. It's the same principle as the Thompson's angled stock, but keeps the stock in line with the action, so it doesn't produce off-axis recoil.

    The point is that the carry handle is there for a reason. Have you ever wondered why issued M4s and M16s retain the carry handle, even though it's removable and could be ditched entirely?
    To each his own I guess.
    I find optics easiest to see through when mounted on a midprofile mount/rings, carry handle optics only seem valuable with a facemask on. Rear raised sight will still keep dirt away from the charging handle, but not so much with the ejection port. Structural integrity went out the window when they made the handle detachable, the RIS does that now.

    The P90 is a whole other ballpark. Its magazine requires the sights to be the way they are, but they don't have carry handles on them anyways.

    I think the reason that the carry handle is still on the rifles is because there's no reason to replace them besides the looks, which is completely irrelevant to its purpose. When you add cost of new rear sights into the mix it becomes completely pointless.

    Once again, my issue is not with raised sights, but with the handle, it accomplishes next to nothing on a modern AR. Only time I'd use a carry handle is in airsoft where I'm actually allowed to grab it. Even still I find a sling with one hand on the handguard/pistol grip preferable.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events

  13. Post #5733
    iFail's Avatar
    March 2009
    2,448 Posts
    Notice how the Tavor's sights are raised, extending upwards from the body to put them in the same sight plane as the optics that are almost always used instead- almost as tall as carry handle ironsights. Almost all bullpups that don't have carry handles have very tall sights, or they're mounted higher (like on the F2000). If the Tavor had AK or AR15 style sights, it'd be near-unusable.

    Carry handles aren't useless embellishment. Believe it or not, but the actual firearm design firm that created the weapon may know a little bit more about firearm design than random airsofters on the Internet.
    Raised sights, sure. useless piece of metal generating weight inbetween them? nah. It really doesn't help me in any way, and mounting optics is easier with a top rail below the sight plane like on a ar15. This allows generous space for night optics and allows a IR laser to mount on the top rail. If you want a taller optic mount, there are things like the larue QD mounts which raise them up to a cowitness height.

    Edited:

    The point is, the only difference between the two is a bar of metal between the sights. Said bar of metal can also be used to carry the gun (whether an official practice or not), and provides a raised platform to put optics on, which has ergonomic advantages. There are other more minor things too, like structural integrity and keeping dirt away from the ejection port or charging handle.

    Part of the P90's design, for example, is the raised rail on which the ironsights are mounted. With a scope or sight, this allows the user to quickly and easily bring the gun to the shoulder, lining up naturally with the sight. It's the same principle as the Thompson's angled stock, but keeps the stock in line with the action, so it doesn't produce off-axis recoil.

    The point is that the carry handle is there for a reason. Have you ever wondered why issued M4s and M16s retain the carry handle, even though it's removable and could be ditched entirely?
    Also, recent m4s and m16s aren't using the carry handle, depending on branch they will likely have the TA31RCO or an eotech. In conjunction with these, they use the Matech BUIS, or for SF types they use the Knight's Armament.

    Edited:

    You act like a carry handle is the only way to get optics mounted higher up. It's not. There are a lot of companies out there that produce QD optics mounts that put them at a good height, while maintaining the cheekweld.

    Edited:

    Also, Catbarf, I get that you're a cool guy around here, CIA dad and all that shit, but I really don't need any of your fucking condescending tone. "master gunsmith"? You literally don't know anything important about me or where I spend my time. I'm fine with reasoned debate, but I don't appreciate you just coming in and starting up with a "you don't know shit" type remark. You want to question my credibility, then attack my argument, not me.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows XP Taiwan Show Events Agree Agree x 7Friendly Friendly x 1 (list)

  14. Post #5734
    wallyroberto_2's Avatar
    August 2011
    2,296 Posts
    So now Isreal will lose holy war because of that gun
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Canada Show Events

  15. Post #5735
    Taepodong-2's Avatar
    December 2009
    13,530 Posts
    So now Isreal will lose holy war because of that gun
    It's a Croatian gun designed for the Croatian army though. It has nothing to do with Israel.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Canada Show Events Agree Agree x 2Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  16. Post #5736
    child porn prodigy
    venom's Avatar
    April 2005
    15,237 Posts
    Also, Catbarf, I get that you're a cool guy around here, CIA dad and all that shit, but I really don't need any of your fucking condescending tone. "master gunsmith"? You literally don't know anything important about me or where I spend my time. I'm fine with reasoned debate, but I don't appreciate you just coming in and starting up with a "you don't know shit" type remark. You want to question my credibility, then attack my argument, not me.
    I actually almost don't notice it anymore, all of catbarf's arguments are in that same tone
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows Vista Canada Show Events Agree Agree x 6Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  17. Post #5737
    iFail's Avatar
    March 2009
    2,448 Posts
    I don't get why they revamped it already. It seems like all the changes are just to make it look like a tavor?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows XP Taiwan Show Events

  18. Post #5738
    Taepodong-2's Avatar
    December 2009
    13,530 Posts
    I don't get why they revamped it already. It seems like all the changes are just to make it look like a tavor?
    Apparently the one Codemoney posted was a prototype and the current production model is the FAMAS looking version


    I've also seen a version with a G36 optic.

    Edited:

    Not really a G36 optic, but it still looks like an optic built in to the carrying handle
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Canada Show Events Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  19. Post #5739
    child porn prodigy
    venom's Avatar
    April 2005
    15,237 Posts
    it almost looks like a FAMAS if kel-tec had designed it
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows Vista Canada Show Events Agree Agree x 7 (list)

  20. Post #5740
    Gold Member
    FloaterTWO's Avatar
    November 2008
    7,089 Posts
    Do those take G36 mags?

    If so, airsoft versions would be cool if they're compatible with existing G36 mags. FAMAS mags over here are hard to come by.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events

  21. Post #5741
    iFail's Avatar
    March 2009
    2,448 Posts
    i think they're proprietary.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows XP Taiwan Show Events

  22. Post #5742
    Taepodong-2's Avatar
    December 2009
    13,530 Posts
    It uses STANAG compatible mags.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Canada Show Events Informative Informative x 3 (list)

  23. Post #5743
    iFail's Avatar
    March 2009
    2,448 Posts
    derp you already said that. i'm a fucking idiot

    Edited:

    those mag linking nubs seem like a pain tho. Having multiple mag linked up probably wouldn't be as comfortable as on a conventional rifle.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows XP Taiwan Show Events

  24. Post #5744
    ಥ益ಥ ... Beautiful.
    Kill001's Avatar
    April 2006
    12,040 Posts
    I actually really want a famas now for some reason

    gbb would be pretty rad but I want kwa or something to make a metal aeg one
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete United States Show Events Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  25. Post #5745
    Premature Joculation
    cardfan212's Avatar
    April 2009
    7,908 Posts
    I actually really want to get a TM FAMAS.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events

  26. Post #5746
    Captain Armed Dildo, Master of Ratings
    cpt.armadillo's Avatar
    February 2011
    5,526 Posts
    This page is gross.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows Vista United States Show Events

  27. Post #5747
    Premature Joculation
    cardfan212's Avatar
    April 2009
    7,908 Posts
    You're gross.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events Zing Zing x 2 (list)

  28. Post #5748
    Gold Member
    Stupideye's Avatar
    October 2006
    12,424 Posts
    I actually really want to get a TM FAMAS.
    I used to have one, externally they feel really plasticy and creaky but it's a really neat gun. you can upgrade it apparently since some v2 and v3 gearbox parts are compatible with the v1 gearbox it uses (probably with some modification - don't remember where I read about this, check ASC).
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Canada Show Events

  29. Post #5749
    No such thing as overkill.
    catbarf's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,925 Posts
    Also, recent m4s and m16s aren't using the carry handle, depending on branch they will likely have the TA31RCO or an eotech. In conjunction with these, they use the Matech BUIS, or for SF types they use the Knight's Armament.
    Slowly but surely, optics are becoming the new standard. When they're not used, though, you almost always see the carry handles on the rifles. Having them raised as high as the carry handle provides makes it a lot easier to aim- the handle isn't strictly necessary, and there are alternatives, but that piece of metal is cheap, effective, and hard to damage. It's not intrinsically better, but it's not intrinsically worse.

    Also, Catbarf, I get that you're a cool guy around here, CIA dad and all that shit, but I really don't need any of your fucking condescending tone. "master gunsmith"? You literally don't know anything important about me or where I spend my time. I'm fine with reasoned debate, but I don't appreciate you just coming in and starting up with a "you don't know shit" type remark. You want to question my credibility, then attack my argument, not me.
    Sorry, I know I can be a bit flippant/sarcastic sometimes and end up coming across as an asshole. It was really just the 'lol carry handle. You don't need a carry handle on an assault rifle, that shit is so 90s' comment that got on my nerves, I see a lot of airsofters make wild claims about real steel firearms and it gets annoying. I'm usually pretty level when it comes to other subjects, it's just guns that get me. I dunno why, probably the number of people in my major (game design) who think they're gun experts thanks to CoD.

    So, sorry for being a dick about it.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events Friendly Friendly x 5 (list)

  30. Post #5750
    GOSH FUDGING DARNIT
    Fish Muffin's Avatar
    January 2008
    7,450 Posts
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows Vista United States Show Events Funny Funny x 9 (list)

  31. Post #5751
    No such thing as overkill.
    catbarf's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,925 Posts
    2012 resolution: stop getting worked up over rooty tooty point n shootys
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events Winner Winner x 6Zing Zing x 1 (list)

  32. Post #5752
    Oh no, what have I done!
    milkandcooki's Avatar
    November 2007
    21,869 Posts

    ok.

    Edited:

    ahhhugugh why are you not embedding
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events Late Late x 3 (list)

  33. Post #5753
    iFail's Avatar
    March 2009
    2,448 Posts
    lol figures doublestar would be the one to do this shit. but eotech certainly isn't helping with their stupid zombie and mw3 sights.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows XP Taiwan Show Events

  34. Post #5754
    No such thing as overkill.
    catbarf's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,925 Posts
    I'm all for novelty 'zombie hunter' ammo

    Maybe even a biohazard symbol on a rifle, why not

    but a chainsaw, just why
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 4 (list)

  35. Post #5755
    GOSH FUDGING DARNIT
    Fish Muffin's Avatar
    January 2008
    7,450 Posts
    what

    Edited:

    why
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows Vista United States Show Events Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  36. Post #5756
    your all nerdes
    the_killer24's Avatar
    November 2007
    14,024 Posts
    someone used it

    dream come true
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  37. Post #5757
    BROFISTICUS's Avatar
    September 2011
    136 Posts
    I like how it's tan, for fighting zombies in the desert
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events