1. Post #201
    Warhol's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,473 Posts
    But what if they release war plans and operations that are still going on?
    So what?

    For example, what if one of the documents says "Tomorrow a whole bunch of soldiers will go to blahvillage"

    The document is released.

    Taliban kills them all because they knew they were going to blahvillage.
    That's the problem of the US soldiers. Why are they going to Blahvillage, Afghanistan in the first place. Plus, the US should train their troops in

    Not only that, this is speculative, vague and kinda false.

    By the way we aren't "slaughtering" innocent civilians. Most of the time they were accidents. Only 25% of the civilian deaths were intentional by a rough estimate.
    25% is still a fucking massacre. oh pfffffffffft its only 25% out of 1.3 million, lol all goooooood

    And a tonne of accidents are caused by negligence and pure stupidity.

    When you fucking go out of your way, when the death toll is MASSIVE, and say that a majority is "accidents lol", is fucking disgusting. I don't give a rats ass if it's a fucking accident. First of all, you just chalking it up to being an accident so we should ignore it proves you don't a FUCK about the civilians there. And second, it in NO way makes it justified or right. Now uber, before you say you're not justifying it, don't, because you JUST did. You're saying a massive death toll is fucking FINE AND FUCKING DANDY because they were accidents. When my niece knocks over a jug a milk by accident, I don't get mad because I know she made a mistake and is sorry about it.

    When you murder 75% of 1.3 million people "by accident", you can take your excuse and shove it down your throat.

    If you want to see slaughtering civilians, go back to when the Taliban were still in control of Afghanistan. They had fortresses where they would paint the walls with human blood.
    What the fuck are you talking about? At this point, I'm pretty certain you're just lying.

    Edited:

    Warhol, why can't you debate without so much angst directed at other people?
    You don't really know what angst is. oh noe, he curse! must be angst


    also, thanks for debating my points so clearly. I'll get right on that.

    Edited:

    They rig IEDs on frequently used highways. Its all a matter of luck that a US convoy goes past them.


    And what about that insurance file they have, but is still encrypted? What if that contains files that reveal operations? What happens then.
    you're speculating AGAIN.

    Edited:

    lol blaming the US gov for wikileaks decision to release the documents with the names in them.. of course they're not going to help someone steal their classified documents..are you fucking serious? rofl
    lol wikileaks is withholding the documents to do the exact opposite of what you're saying, good job not reading the article..are you fucking serious? rofl
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  2. Post #202
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    7,874 Posts
    didn't some dude from oklahoma leak the documents
    Apparently.
    This is the small detail that is forgotten it seems. If Wikileaks wasn't around or they refused to publish it the documents would have ended up somewhere eventually. If the person who wanted to leak them was determined to he could get them out into the public domain without the help of a site like Wikileaks.

  3. Post #203
    Warhol's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,473 Posts
    Yeah, because those soldiers whose lives he put in danger don't have it much worse.
    He's a journalist, he reports news.

    Soldiers, whom he hasn't put in danger, are there because they're willing to give their lives.

    Edited:

    Loose lips sink ships.
    What is 1943?

    Edited:

    The Taliban parses military documents looking for patterns to the military's strategy on the micro and macro level. This forces the army to constantly change its tactics, but if even for one moment they fail to do so, then lives are potentially lost.
    A majority of the Taliban are insurgents who are pretty poor. So I doubt they can understand English or Swedish.

    Second, if this is the case, then maybe the US should leave?

    Edited:

    Alright... Fuck whatever I said earlier... Put this fucker up to his neck in desert sand, and let him boil for all I care.
    Wow you're a fucking sociopath.

    Edited:

    Actually we are. We're usually the ones who step in when something goes wrong.
    And usually make it worse.
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  4. Post #204
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,347 Posts
    Lol are you just replying to every post in the thread or what
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  5. Post #205
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    7,874 Posts
    A majority of the Taliban are insurgents who are pretty poor. So I doubt they can understand English or Swedish.
    I am guessing they have at least a few people who can translate documents and stuff for them.
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  6. Post #206
    Gold Member
    Pelf's Avatar
    September 2007
    2,931 Posts
    Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't this be considered treason?

    Definitions of Treason:

    • a crime that undermines the offender's government
    • disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior
    • treachery: an act of deliberate betrayal

    That sounds like people at Wikileaks to me.

    Edit:

    Could Assange be charged with treason for this?

  7. Post #207
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    7,874 Posts
    Possibly, but not Wikileaks. The person handing the documents to them is the person (if anyone) committing treason.

  8. Post #208
    notxmania's Avatar
    September 2009
    303 Posts
    Uhhh if those Afghan civilians are informants to the US don't they pretty much deserve to die?
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  9. Post #209
    Gold Member
    Doriol's Avatar
    January 2009
    6,484 Posts
    Uhhh if those Afghan civilians are informants to the US don't they pretty much deserve to die?
    no

  10. Post #210
    Dennab
    July 2009
    7,284 Posts
    He ALWAYS does that. He has a bad habit of banning people whom he disagrees with.

    I remember I got banned for trolling a while back for asking for a source for some absolute bullshit claim he made.

    Edited:


    Wow, bullshit ban and ignoring the argument. You failed pretty hard there, kiddo.

    Try fucking providing an argument. Again, you have CLEARLY never met a soldier.

    guess what Gunfox, 'gunfurry' was one word out of that long post. The rest was both observations and a fucking argument.

    waaaahhh, i disagree with him, he must be banned

    gunfox up to his ol' ban those who he disagrees with routine.

    And I didn't even fucking flame you.


    Try fucking providing an argument. Again, you have CLEARLY never met a soldier.

    Edited:


    Not really, you ban people for any ounce of dissent. People walk on egg shells with you.

    gunfurry is going to get perma? Oh grow up.

    totally not like anyone ever uses alts right?

    Now if you'll kindly answer my points or are you going to ignore them again and ban me.

    Edited:



    Anyone suffering right now is just a government smear campaign.

    Edited:

    There is NO evidence of anything of the sort happening.
    can we get a permaban on this tool already
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  11. Post #211
    Gold Member
    Doriol's Avatar
    January 2009
    6,484 Posts
    can we get a permaban on this tool already
    having a differing opinion isn't against the rules
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  12. Post #212
    Dennab
    July 2009
    7,284 Posts
    no but he sure is annoying
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  13. Post #213
    Xen Tricks's Avatar
    March 2010
    4,223 Posts
    Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't this be considered treason?

    Definitions of Treason:

    a crime that undermines the offender's government
    disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior
    treachery: an act of deliberate betrayal

    That sounds like people at Wikileaks to me.

    Edit:

    Could Assange be charged with treason for this?
    Yes. We should just announce to everyone what we are doing at all times.

    That won't undermine military operations at all. Nope. No way no how.

    I mean it's not like informants will see this and decide not to give us information anymore because now everyone knows who they are and that they are cooperating with the coalition forces. That won't put their families in danger at all.

    The government has tried to be nice, and I'm fine with wikileaks leaking a lot of things, but this is over the line. Arrest him. This is wreckless endangerment at best and at worst it's blatant treason.
    Jesus christ for the 100th time it's not Treason. He's not a citizen of the United States, he can't be charged with Australian treason because he release no direct information against them and there was no intent to aid the enemy, which is required to be treason under Australian law.

    Stop using the term :mad:

    EDIT: nvm you get the point
    WHAT DON'T YOU PEOPLE GET?! :rant:
    READ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#Australia

  14. Post #214
    CrazyMoron's Avatar
    September 2008
    502 Posts
    Seeing as he's censored all the names in this batch, they're only bitching just to cover up their war crimes.
    But that's impossible! The grand ol' US of A have never done ANYTHING wrong! We are the beacon of freedom and liberty and capitalism (which is far superior to that dirty socialism, bleh!) And we are fighting those evil muslims because they blew up our skyscrapers!

    /sarcasm

    But yea, this is completely necessary to stop the war going on.

  15. Post #215
    Gold Member
    BloodYScar's Avatar
    May 2005
    3,330 Posts
    Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't this be considered treason?

    Definitions of Treason:

    a crime that undermines the offender's government
    disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior
    treachery: an act of deliberate betrayal

    That sounds like people at Wikileaks to me.

    Edit:

    Could Assange be charged with treason for this?
    That sounds like normal government work to me?!

  16. Post #216
    Gold Member
    Doriol's Avatar
    January 2009
    6,484 Posts
    That sounds like normal government work to me?!
    what

  17. Post #217
    Gold Member
    teh pirate's Avatar
    March 2009
    5,304 Posts
    hey everyone shut up

    swearing at each other on an internet forum isn't going to help anything

    if you really gave two shits you'd be contacting a local newspaper or something to get your opinion out to the public.
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  18. Post #218
    Gold Member
    Doriol's Avatar
    January 2009
    6,484 Posts
    yeah we should not discuss anything at all and just erase this whole board

    you're dumb
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  19. Post #219
    Gold Member
    teh pirate's Avatar
    March 2009
    5,304 Posts
    also, i love how it's always the same few people in threads like this arguing the same points against the same people. it's fucking stupid, obviously neither of you is going to manage to get your point across to the opposing debaters, since they're the same people you've been arguing with for the last two and a half years. get a hobby or something jesus fuck

    Edited:

    yeah we should not discuss anything at all and just erase this whole board

    you're dumb
    the problem is you aren't even discussing you're just flaming the same people with the same stale insults for months on end

  20. Post #220
    Warhol's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,473 Posts
    We don't come into a country if it doesn't want us. Usually when the government cannot function under the current circumstances. is when we call ourselves in for the better good.
    Like Iraq, right?

    Edited:

    Going into Iraq to free the citizens from oppression is policing.
    lol, Iraq is far from free.

    Edited:

    The CIA doesn't even assassinate anyone. Leave that to Delta.
    The CIA doesn't do assassinations? are you fucking kidding me?

    Edited:

    Every single authorised assassination has been done or been attempted by the CIA

    Edited:

    Putting families in the threat of danger is crossing the line, harmed or not.
    Except they're not.

    Edited:

    I can't see the importance of the names of Afghani informers.
    Someone, somewhere needs information.

    Edited:

    Wasn't it just last week you were all sucking his dick and calling him a great man?
    nothing really changed, this is is a smear campaign. They DID censor the documents.

    Edited:

    why am I not surprised that gunfurry is in here being a military apologist

    "arrest him" etc.

    you want him arrested for exposing war crimes? they're REDACTING all the names as previously mentioned. the media is just trying to divert attention from the real reason that people don't want the documents exposed: because they show that the war is a failure and that there have been numerous war crimes that have continually been covered up

    (User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - GunFox))
    I'm like swilling vodka here and gluing my eyes to the screen scanning the FUCK out of this post for something even remotely an insult.

    Gunfox, the hell are you doing?

    Edited:

    And if they miss ONE NAME, it could get someone killed. ONE NAME out of 15 THOUSAND documents.
    Ok? So they don't miss the name.

    Not only that, the possibility of someone using the documents against people is low.

  21. Post #221
    Gold Member
    bravehat's Avatar
    July 2007
    12,047 Posts
    why am I not surprised that gunfurry is in here being a military apologist
    Found in under 3 seconds Warhol, and after only having 3 hours of sleep and almost dead here.

    Also you stated here:

    But what if they release war plans and operations that are still going on?

    So what?
    That's bad, people are put n unnecessary danger while they do their job and can only strengthen the enemy insurgency.

    That's bad, very fucking bad.

    Not only that, the possibility of someone using the documents against people is low.
    My, how wrong you are, I know that if I knew about the leak which the insurgents do, I'd be stripping that apart looking for information that could be put to my advantage.

  22. Post #222
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,347 Posts
    also, i love how it's always the same few people in threads like this arguing the same points against the same people. it's fucking stupid, obviously neither of you is going to manage to get your point across to the opposing debaters, since they're the same people you've been arguing with for the last two and a half years. get a hobby or something jesus fuck
    Debate isn't about convincing your opponent, it's about convincing the people who are watching but not participating, who are more easily swayed because their egos are not invested. If you appear to those people to be a reasonable and thoughtful person with a thorough understanding of the issue, they'll listen to what you have to say.
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  23. Post #223
    Warhol's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,473 Posts
    They did it to fuck the US government, not for the sake of the Afghani people.
    you're normally a smart reasonable person. This is absurd what you're arguing.
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  24. Post #224
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,347 Posts
    But yea, this is completely necessary to stop the war going on.
    It's not going to stop the war. It's going to hurt military positions and undermine America's relationship, such as it is, with the Afghani people. The military uses informants because it's less likely to lead to US and civilian casualties. By demolishing the military's relationship with these informants, Wikileaks is ensuring further and more intense violence in the region.

  25. Post #225
    Warhol's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,473 Posts
    Lol are you just replying to every post in the thread or what
    yes

    Edited:

    It's not going to stop the war. It's going to hurt military positions and undermine America's relationship, such as it is, with the Afghani people. The military uses informants because it's less likely to lead to US and civilian casualties. By demolishing the military's relationship with these informants, Wikileaks is ensuring further and more intense violence in the region.
    When the public turns against a war, the war ends. Look at Vietnam and Korea.

    Edited:

    Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't this be considered treason?

    Definitions of Treason:

    a crime that undermines the offender's government
    disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior
    treachery: an act of deliberate betrayal

    That sounds like people at Wikileaks to me.

    Edit:

    Could Assange be charged with treason for this?
    He's not American.

  26. Post #226
    Melnek's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,923 Posts

    When the public turns against a war, the war ends. Look at Vietnam and Korea.
    Wikileaks has been leaking their shit now for ages

    has it even remotely brought the war to a halt?

  27. Post #227
    Gold Member
    bravehat's Avatar
    July 2007
    12,047 Posts
    The war in vietnam ended because it was impossible to win.

  28. Post #228
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,347 Posts
    you're normally a smart reasonable person. This is absurd what you're arguing.
    Yeah, everybody is smart as long as they don't disagree with you.

    Protip: if you're siding against human rights organizations, you're on the wrong side. I don't care if it's not in vogue on the Left, gambling with innocent people's lives in order to fulfill some Western white-privilege-bred lolbertarian idea of how a government should function is despicable afaic.
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  29. Post #229
    Warhol's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,473 Posts
    Found in under 3 seconds Warhol, and after only having 3 hours of sleep and almost dead here.

    Also you stated here:
    gunfurry is not an insult.



    That's bad, people are put n unnecessary danger while they do their job and can only strengthen the enemy insurgency.

    That's bad, very fucking bad.
    Then the US needs to fucking pull out.


    My, how wrong you are, I know that if I knew about the leak which the insurgents do, I'd be stripping that apart looking for information that could be put to my advantage.
    The documents are fucking censored and the Taliban are really fucking unorganised.

  30. Post #230
    Gold Member
    edja007's Avatar
    September 2006
    2,404 Posts
    When the public turns against a war, the war ends. Look at Vietnam and Korea.
    Yeah right. Except it won't.

  31. Post #231
    Warhol's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,473 Posts
    Yeah, everybody is smart as long as they don't disagree with you.

    Protip: if you're siding against human rights organizations, you're on the wrong side. I don't care if it's not in vogue on the Left, gambling with innocent people's lives in order to fulfill some Western white-privilege-bred lolbertarian idea of how a government should function is despicable afaic.
    What the fuck are you talking about? This isn't some libertarian idea, this is exposing US war crimes and leaking NECESSARY documents that expose US functions. If the US is afraid of it, then they need to deal with it or leave the country.

  32. Post #232
    Gold Member
    Hostel's Avatar
    January 2009
    2,436 Posts
    I just can't believe people would not want their government to be held responsible for what they do. Or am I wrong? Our government is way more concerned with what is in the documents and covering their own asses than the people being endangered.

    Yes, I am concerned for those who are in danger. So if it was my choice, I would make the documents public when the war is over.

  33. Post #233
    Warhol's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,473 Posts
    Yeah right. Except it won't.
    Happened twice before.

  34. Post #234
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,347 Posts
    The documents are fucking censored and the Taliban are really fucking unorganised.
    Yeah, those dumb Talibans who drove the Soviet Union out of their country and have successfully resisted US forces for nearly a decade definitely aren't smart enough to figure anything like that out. I bet they can't even speak English.

    Edited:

    What the fuck are you talking about? This isn't some libertarian idea, this is exposing US war crimes and leaking NECESSARY documents that expose US functions. If the US is afraid of it, then they need to deal with it or leave the country.
    Go read the OP again. It's about several human rights organizations strenuously objecting to Wikileaks's actions (publishing the names of informants) and trying to stop them from doing it again.

  35. Post #235
    Gold Member
    bravehat's Avatar
    July 2007
    12,047 Posts
    gunfurry is not an insult.




    Then the US needs to fucking pull out.




    The documents are fucking censored and the Taliban are really fucking unorganised.
    Surely a man like you has heard of the term power vacuum correct?

    That's what's gonna happen if the Coalition pulls out too early, and who do you think is gonna fill the vacuum.

  36. Post #236
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    7,874 Posts
    The war in vietnam ended because it was impossible to win.
    Interesting way to say "lost".

  37. Post #237
    Gold Member
    bravehat's Avatar
    July 2007
    12,047 Posts
    It was a lost war and the US was stuck in their rigid conventional warfare while they were fighting an insurgency and guerilla war against locals with rifles and traps.

    That was an impossible war, unless they literally flattened the entire country with agent orange, napalm and daisy cutters.

  38. Post #238
    Melnek's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,923 Posts
    Interesting way to say "lost".
    The Vietnam war was an unwinnable war.

  39. Post #239
    ZekeTwo's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,314 Posts
    Go read the OP again. It's about several human rights organizations strenuously objecting to Wikileaks's actions (publishing the names of informants) and trying to stop them from doing it again.
    You assume these organizations aren't just acting as a mouthpiece. When human rights groups start saying the exact thing that the US government has been saying for weeks now, it's completely reasonable to be suspicious. In fact, it's downright odd that these human rights organizations have remained completely silent on the topic of war crimes that actually have been committed, only speaking up weeks later to ask that the documents be removed because someone may die later.

    Couple this with Assange's (vague) response and the fact that both the US government and these organizations refuse to help out with harm minimization and it's easy to see that we're only getting a small slice of the whole story.

    For the record, I DO support what Assange is doing. I firmly believe that if it even slightly hastens the end of this war it'll do more good than harm.
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  40. Post #240
    WickedIcon's Avatar
    March 2010
    750 Posts
    Assange fucked up, that doesn't make him evil.