1. Post #1
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts
    :siren:For those who don't know what usage-based billing is, please read this summary before continuing. Even if you are not Canadian, this may have a way of affecting you.:siren:

    :siren::siren:UPDATE: Harper government - CRTC, rescind your decision or we'll do it for you.:siren::siren:
    The Harper government will overturn the CRTC’s decision that effectively ends “unlimited use” Internet plans if the regulator doesn’t rescind the decision itself.
    -----


    Michael Geist (a law professor who has become a figurehead for internet-related consumer rights in Canada) has recently posted an editorial that attempts to clear up the myths surrounding usage-based-billing and reminds us that our internet is already one of the worst in the world. (What a nice guy)

    Over the past few weeks, public interest and concern with Internet bandwidth caps has hit a fever pitch as new ISP policies (Shaw and Primus announcing caps) and the CRTC decision on usage based billing has taken the issue to the mainstream - CBC's the National covered it, George Stroumboulopoulos discussed it, CBC's Spark talked to several players on the issue, the Globe has highlighted business concerns with bandwidth caps, and there have been numerous op-eds and media articles on the issue.

    The Stop the Meter Internet petition now has over 200,000 signatories and is growing fast, which may help explain why UBB has emerged as a political hot potato. The NDP was the first to raise it as a political issue, followed yesterday by a response from Industry Minister Tony Clement (who promised to study the decision carefully "to ensure that competition, innovation, and consumers were all fairly considered") and the Liberals, who called on the government to reverse the CRTC decision.
    I strongly recommend you read the entire article as these snippets won't do it justice. But one of the most important points is this:

    Fourth, arguments in support of UBB are frequently accompanied by the claim that the approach is like any other service - you pay for what you use. Yet Bell's UBB plan approved by the CRTC does not function like this at all. Its plan features a 60 GB cap with an overage charge for the next 20 GB. After 80 GB, there is no further cap until the user hits 300 GB. In other words, using 80 GB and 300 GB costs the same thing.
    All Canadians already overpay for internet services and while we will likely end up paying more if UBB stands, we will may probably won't be less subject to the asinine bandwidth caps currently imposed by some of the major ISPs:

    As virtually every Canadian Internet user knows, the Canadian market is almost uniformly subject to bandwidth caps - the OECD reports that Canada stands virtually alone with near universal use of caps. The scale of the Canadian caps are particularly noteworthy - while Comcast in the U.S. imposes a 250 GB cap, Canadian ISPs offer a fraction of that number:
    [list][*]Videotron starts at 3 GB for Basic Internet, 40 GB for its next plan and tops at 200 GB for very fast speeds at $149/month[*]Rogers Lite service caps at 15 GB, it fastest service stops at 175 GB[*]Bell's Essential Plus service offers a 2 GB per month cap, climbing to 75 GB for its fastest service[/list]
    Therefore:

    Addressing the bandwidth cap concern involves far more than reversing the CRTC's poorly reasoned UBB decision.
    tl;dr?

    While there is great anger with the CRTC and the dominant ISPs, we should recognize that the current market is a product of years of regulatory neglect and policy choices that created one of the most converged communications markets in the world. As Canada's global rankings slide down, we are now paying the price for those choices and it will take a concerted policy effort by governments and regulators to put us back on course.
    At this point you're probably wondering, is there good news? Well, there is. The Liberals and NDP have already spoken out against usage-based billing and just recently, the conservatives have called for a review.

    So what can you do? Obviously, you should contact your local MP as well as the federal government and the CRTC. Instructions for how to do this can be found here. For the truly lazy, there are also petitions you can sign. If you're Canadian you're probably overwhelmed by the amount of things happening to internet in our country lately. You may even have helped fight against Bill-C32, the "Canadian DMCA". Well don't quit yet, you're needed again.

    If this thread stays active I will try to post any updates and developments here instead of in new threads.
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    Kinversulath's Avatar
    February 2007
    3,779 Posts
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  3. Post #3
    ze beaver's Avatar
    November 2010
    5,513 Posts
    I fucking hate our caps, everyone else (except Aussies) has unlimited bandwidth but we can't have it?

    Damn you CRTC :argh:
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  4. Post #4
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts
    Looks like there is a silver lining after all.

    This could spell the end of the telecom monopoly.
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  5. Post #5
    Brage Nyman's Avatar
    May 2010
    2,348 Posts
    Limiting anyones Internet is fucking bullshit.

    Especially if the reason is greed.
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    SteeleCratos's Avatar
    April 2009
    2,323 Posts
    It will be overturned, like the dmca bill

    Still, I signed the petition and will contact my local MP soon. I encourage all Canadians to do the same

  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts
    It will be overturned, like the dmca bill
    Bill C-32 wasn't overturned and will most likely pass this year. You're thinking of the old one.

    What we're fighting for in C-32 is the right to bypass DRM for personal use, and it looks like we will be getting it.

  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    ThePutty's Avatar
    September 2006
    3,320 Posts
    We've had this sort of thing in Australia for years now

    It sucks, but what can you do about it
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  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    Micr0's Avatar
    September 2007
    2,963 Posts
    If Rogers ever starts charging per-gb I'm burning down their headquarters.
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  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    FunkyDisko77's Avatar
    April 2008
    1,731 Posts
    Fucking Shaw your internet is already shitty if you start charging me per GB i'm gonna start a god damned war against you
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  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    lum1naire's Avatar
    October 2008
    6,657 Posts
    Fucking Shaw your internet is already shitty if you start charging me per GB i'm gonna start a god damned war against you
    ya ya ^^^ lol!1
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  12. Post #12
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    What if I get a virus and it starts using internet like crazy?
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  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    hgncommand's Avatar
    June 2009
    2,126 Posts
    Egypt has it's internet shut off, there are riots.

    Canada has a internet usage-based billing change, we descend into chaos.
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  14. Post #14
    Soviet Russia's Avatar
    May 2010
    1,917 Posts
    Fucking Shaw your internet is already shitty if you start charging me per GB i'm gonna start a god damned war against you
    not sure about prices (I obviously don't pay the bills), but speed for shaw is fine for me. Also, does this affect shaw in any way? does shaw already have these caps? I can't find any info on those questions.

  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    VistaPOWA's Avatar
    October 2008
    8,370 Posts
    Thank god we don't have internet caps here in Hungary.

    Edited:

    not sure about prices (I obviously don't pay the bills), but speed for shaw is fine for me. Also, does this affect shaw in any way? does shaw already have these caps? I can't find any info on those questions.
    :google: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Shaw+internet+cap

    3rd result has nice has detailed info on it.
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  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    CoolCorky's Avatar
    February 2009
    17,260 Posts


    Relevant?
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  17. Post #17
    Pasalaqcua's Avatar
    August 2010
    2,192 Posts


    Relevant?
    Interesting.
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    sharzu's Avatar
    May 2006
    1,815 Posts


    Relevant?
    If this is true then you guys are being robbed...

  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Luuper's Avatar
    July 2008
    2,397 Posts
    If this is true then you guys are being robbed...
    It is true, we are being robbed. Standard plans all now come with a 25gb cap imposed, then 2$/gb overage fee

    Edited:

    Also contacted my MP and Tony Clement

    do the same
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  20. Post #20
    Lemons in Bulk
    Cakebatyr's Avatar
    May 2005
    4,484 Posts
    As I was reading this my MP walked in the door of my store. I sold him some beer and told him to do something about it.
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  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    Floreum's Avatar
    March 2006
    972 Posts
    Ever since today, I've been curious on how much I use per a day. So a found a program that monitors your usage.

    Now, this UBB doesn't affect me because Telus refuses to do this, but nonetheless I am curious on how much I could owe. I know for a fact already that if I were to reformat my computer and not back up my games on steam, I would owe around $300 for one of the months on Shaw's basic internet service. ...Ouch.
    anyways, if you're curious about the program I'm using, you can go.here

    So far, I'm up to 856.1MB today... StarCraft 2 really does eat at your usage.

  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    January 2005
    4,680 Posts
    thanks for making this thread zeke, it was very necessary

    the article by michael geist was extremely informative and should be a mandatory read by any canadian who uses the internet and gives a fuck about this issue

    hey canadians: got a problem with this? do something about it. write to your MP, write to the CRTC, write to the government. zeke attached fucking instructions on how to do it. there's no reason not to. if you care about the problem, take steps towards fixing it.

    depending on the various parties' stance and aggressiveness toward this, my vote in the next election could very well be dependent on just this issue alone
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    December 2009
    14,645 Posts
    Well this blows......for you guys. It'll soon hit us too in the States.

  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts


    Relevant?
    I printed that out and put it on the public notice board at the post office yesterday actually

    Thanks for finding it again
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  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    M2k3's Avatar
    February 2005
    2,092 Posts
    Already signed the petition at stopthemeter.ca and sent a letter to my MP earlier this week. For any other Canucks on FP we're getting together to protest the CRTC decision, there's a page up but the guy organizing it keeps changing and flip-flopping information. At one point it was the 12th on Parliament hill, then it is the 5th, now he saying we're not allowed to be on Parliament hill. The page is here if you plan on attending check it regularly, there's lots of people interested but the guy spearheading the thing is annoyingly unorganized. http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=130673687000309

  26. Post #26
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts
    It is true, we are being robbed. Standard plans all now come with a 25gb cap imposed, then 2$/gb overage fee

    Edited:

    Also contacted my MP and Tony Clement

    do the same
    I'm fortunate that my ISP (Sasktel) doesn't plan on instituting any caps in my area yet. (Probably because the fastest available here is 1.5/.2)

    Definitely contact your government, and speak with your wallet if possible. Don't subscribe to anything with Bell written on it.

  27. Post #27
    So Amazing
    Heroms's Avatar
    December 2006
    1,779 Posts
    Bell and Rogers were charging overage back when I moved here in like 2002. This really didn't change anything for me except remove all the unlimited plans.

  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    cryticfarm's Avatar
    January 2008
    2,205 Posts
    my mom threatened bell
    fibe 12 200gb bandwidth 40 dollars a month with dry band

  29. Post #29
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    January 2005
    4,680 Posts
    you guys should really consider switching to an independent ISP, even just the first I looked at in my area offered a faster speed at a lower price, but the UBB issue is the deal breaker for me

    this website can help you find one specific to your needs (what kind of connection, what price you want, even little things like voip accessibility, etc.)

    I'll be phoning around in the next few days and hopefully there will be at least one with an unlimited data option in my city

    shaw's not getting my fucking money

  30. Post #30
    Triumph Forks's Avatar
    July 2009
    4,689 Posts
    Hopefully a party other than the NDP gives a shit about this issue, because my local MP has no chance in hell of getting re elected next election

    I've already signed the petition and sent letters to my MP and Tony Clement, and I think a couple others if memory serves

  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts
    you guys should really consider switching to an independent ISP, even just the first I looked at in my area offered a faster speed at a lower price, but the UBB issue is the deal breaker for me

    this website can help you find one specific to your needs (what kind of connection, what price you want, even little things like voip accessibility, etc.)

    I'll be phoning around in the next few days and hopefully there will be at least one with an unlimited data option in my city

    shaw's not getting my fucking money
    Some people live in areas where there is only one choice, unfortunately.

    Edited:

    Hopefully a party other than the NDP gives a shit about this issue, because my local MP has no chance in hell of getting re elected next election

    I've already signed the petition and sent letters to my MP and Tony Clement, and I think a couple others if memory serves
    The liberals are against it and Harper has spoken out.

    Honestly I think it's time to just disband the CRTC.

  32. Post #32
    So Amazing
    Heroms's Avatar
    December 2006
    1,779 Posts
    I'll be phoning around in the next few days and hopefully there will be at least one with an unlimited data option in my city

    shaw's not getting my fucking money
    I don't think you know what you're talking about.

    The only tier 1 ISP's in Canada are Bell, Rogers, Shaw and Telus.
    Bell and Rogers had overage charges for a while now. Shaw is introducing them, and Telus has no plans to introduce any overage or caps.

    Every single other ISP leases it's lines from tier one ISP's. Your only hope to get unlimited is with Telus.
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  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts
    I don't think you know what you're talking about.

    The only tier 1 ISP's in Canada are Bell, Rogers, Shaw and Telus.
    Bell and Rogers had overage charges for a while now. Shaw is introducing them, and Telus has no plans to introduce any overage or caps.

    Every single other ISP leases it's lines from tier one ISP's. Your only hope to get unlimited is with Telus.
    Not necessarily, some independent ISPs will offer unlimited plans and absorb the extra cost in hopes that the extra customers will make up for it.
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  34. Post #34
    So Amazing
    Heroms's Avatar
    December 2006
    1,779 Posts
    some independent ISPs will offer unlimited plans and absorb the extra cost in hopes that the extra customers will make up for it.
    There is no such thing as independent ISP's anymore. All the tier one ISPs can now decide what each and every other ISP in Canada you can think of will have as a limit, and how much overage will be. That is what UBB is about.

    This of course ruins the potential market and the ability for small business to rise, not to mention completely removing competition. This isn't about you not willing to shed an extra $2 per GB you go over, that was in-place for quite a while now with Bell and Rogers.

    Fuck.
    At least bother to read up on this shit.

    Edited:

    If any ISP is claiming to have unlimited, they are either

    1. An ISP meant for a business account, which will cost you a lot of money.
    2. False advertising

  35. Post #35
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    16,070 Posts
    Shaw until now hasn't capped me, and i can confirm I've downloaded more than 300 gigs in a month and gotten no extra charges.

    If this changes, say goodbye to steam, Itunes, and any streaming video.

  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts
    There is no such thing as independent ISP's anymore. All the tier one ISPs can now decide what each and every other ISP in Canada you can think of will have as a limit, and how much overage will be. That is what UBB is about.

    This of course ruins the potential market and the ability for small business to rise, not to mention completely removing competition. This isn't about you not willing to shed an extra $2 per GB you go over, that was in-place for quite a while now with Bell and Rogers.

    Fuck.
    At least bother to read up on this shit.
    When I say "independent ISP" I'm referring to small ISPs that lease lines from larger ones. From what I understood they can still offer independant plans if they like, it's just that tier one ISPs will be charging them a lot more.

    But since you're being rude for no reason I can only assume I am wrong

  37. Post #37
    Triumph Forks's Avatar
    July 2009
    4,689 Posts
    Some people live in areas where there is only one choice, unfortunately.

    Edited:



    The liberals are against it and Harper has spoken out.

    Honestly I think it's time to just disband the CRTC.
    ah, missed that little bit in the OP. I suppose that's what I get for skimming through this kind of thing

    I do hope they're all sincere about it, and this actually sees debate instead of just being swept under the rug like a lot of other issues

    and yeah, the CRTC lately hasn't really shown itself to be anything more than archaic I find

  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    Zeke129's Avatar
    July 2007
    40,613 Posts
    What are the odds that we could call upon Valve to throw their weight around a little bit? Surely they can't be happy about this decision and it would likely be in their best interest to lobby against it.
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  39. Post #39
    So Amazing
    Heroms's Avatar
    December 2006
    1,779 Posts
    From what I understood they can still offer independant plans if they like, it's just that tier one ISPs will be charging them a lot more.
    No. Bell actually really wanted the CRTC to pass this exactly because it allowed them to place caps on any ISPs that are leasing their networks, in-turn generating more profit.

    But since you're being rude for no reason I can only assume I am wrong
    It's just that all of this misinformation is going around and some have even gone as far to assume that we are now paying on a per GB basis. It's really annoying.

  40. Post #40
    a-k-t-w's Avatar
    March 2008
    3,100 Posts
    We've had this sort of thing in Australia for years now

    It sucks, but what can you do about it
    Since when?