1. Post #641
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,231 Posts
    make no-fly zone, destroying tanks, tanks are flying?
    The resolution also implores member states to do everything possible to protect civilians, short of boots on the ground. Tanks and artillery have been bombarding cities like Benghazi, thus they need to be destroyed. The overall strategy is to lend enough support to the rebels for them to get rid of Gaddafi, who is the greatest threat to the Libyan people.
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  2. Post #642
    Gold Member
    FluD's Avatar
    February 2006
    1,147 Posts
    Gaddafi, who is the greatest threat to the Libyan people.
    you are really believe that?
    quite a lot of people ran away from the country


    why suddenly Once Egypt rolled over Gaddafi became dangerous?
    why the rebellion started near the borders of Egypt?
    and the France here what they had interest in there? oh yes they had also problem with the Arabs


    May someone provide me a price list of services of NATO, how much it costs disarming of countries.
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  3. Post #643
    Mr. Scorpio's Avatar
    May 2010
    11,140 Posts
    you are really believe that?
    quite a lot of people ran away from the country


    why suddenly Once Egypt rolled over Gaddafi became dangerous?
    why the rebellion started near the borders of Egypt?
    and the France here what they had interest in there? oh yes they had also problem with the Arabs


    May someone provide me a price list of services of NATO, how much it costs disarming of countries.
    Hey, I didn't know Gaddafi was a member of Facepunch.
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  4. Post #644
    Gold Member
    Maucer's Avatar
    August 2007
    2,314 Posts
    Some to some swedes, NATO wants Sweden and Finland to take action too.

  5. Post #645
    Gold Member
    Miskav's Avatar
    April 2010
    4,105 Posts
    you are really believe that?
    quite a lot of people ran away from the country


    why suddenly Once Egypt rolled over Gaddafi became dangerous?
    why the rebellion started near the borders of Egypt?
    and the France here what they had interest in there? oh yes they had also problem with the Arabs


    May someone provide me a price list of services of NATO, how much it costs disarming of countries.
    A fitting response to all your posts in this thread:

    Lol.
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  6. Post #646
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,231 Posts
    you are really believe that?
    quite a lot of people ran away from the country


    why suddenly Once Egypt rolled over Gaddafi became dangerous?
    why the rebellion started near the borders of Egypt?
    and the France here what they had interest in there? oh yes they had also problem with the Arabs


    May someone provide me a price list of services of NATO, how much it costs disarming of countries.
    Considering he is butchering his own people without mercy, yes. He is a threat to his own people. Or did I miss the memo where we're not allowed to criticise people who order their troops to open fire on protestors, disappear and torture political dissidents, and sponsor terrorism?

    The West is inconsistent. The West has sponsored horrible dictators in the belief it would stop the spread of Communism. The West has problems with corporate corruption. I freely concede that. Tell me again how this means we're not allowed to stop this murderous madman, especially when the Libyan people have asked for this help, and the United Nations has given the go-ahead for the mission.

    That being said, your post makes very little sense at all.
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  7. Post #647
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,008 Posts
    Oh boy, today out I found out our "beloved great country" sold hundreds of FN-2000's to them.
    Why did we do that? Because we are evil and corrupted to the bone, and now we are trying to wash it clean by sending a few crummy ass F-16's that are already falling apart due to malfunctions and state of disrepair.

    Gotta love a country where it is generally accepted that our entire not-governement system is corrupt, fat and rich as fuck.
    Its OK the UK was selling them guns and other weapons up till like last week. A newspaper here yesterday did a massive story about how Blair had helped set up many weapons deals in 2007 with Gaddafi. Anti tank missiles and surface to air missiles (lol).

    They pointed out the irony in the fact that the missile that is being talked about so much in the UK at the moment (the MBDA Storm shadow) is made by a company that had deals with Gaddafi

    The BBC live page picked up on a tweet a little earlier that sums it up.

    1334: harikunzru tweets:"Turns out UK is mainly blowing up stuff they sold #libya in 1st place. Oh, and #Bahrain is a beacon of democracy."

    Edited:

    Saying that, Libya does have a lot of modern weapons for a country that has been under an arms embargo for a long time.
    (actually, has it? I heard it had been but I can't find any concrete source on it)

  8. Post #648
    I also found the cnn reporting of interest, parts of a cruise missile recovered from Gadhafi's compound with manufacture dates of Dec. / 06



    Photo: Libyan government soldiers display pieces of shrapnel from a missile attack on a building inside Moammar Kadafi's Bab Azizia compound in Tripoli. Credit: Zohra Bensemra / *******


    One of three Air Force Global Strike Command B-2 Spirit bombers returns to home base at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, March 20, 2011 after striking targets in support of the international response which is enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya. The B-2s landed at Whiteman Air Force Base, Missouri after a more than 25-hour mission in support of Operation Odyssey Dawn. The bombers employed 45 guided Joint Direct Attack Munitions, each weighing 2,000 pounds, against hardened aircraft shelters in Libya.


    One of three Air Force Global Strike Command B-2 Spirit bombers returns to home base at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, March 20, 2011 after striking targets in support of the international response which is enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya. The B-2s landed at Whiteman Air Force Base, Missouri after a more than 25-hour mission in support of Operation Odyssey Dawn. The bombers employed 45 guided Joint Direct Attack Munitions, each weighing 2,000 pounds, against hardened aircraft shelters in Libya.
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  9. Post #649
    Scar's Avatar
    September 2010
    4,167 Posts
    The fact that Germany isn't partaking in this is a huge nuts kick for our national pride

  10. Post #650
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,008 Posts
    The fact that Germany isn't partaking in this is a huge nuts kick for our national pride
    At least they aren't objecting to NATO involvement, and from I have read / heard Germany is willing to step up its participation in Afghanistan if needed to allow things in use there by the US/UK/France to be used else where, if needed.
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  11. Post #651
    Scar's Avatar
    September 2010
    4,167 Posts
    At least they aren't objecting to NATO involvement, and from I have read / heard Germany is willing to step up its participation in Afghanistan if needed to allow things in use there by the US/UK/France to be used else where, if needed.
    Well, not partaking is just contradictory to what they said earlier. Really, I wish this government would do SOMETHING for once :frown:
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  12. Post #652
    Gold Member
    TheTalon's Avatar
    June 2008
    19,896 Posts
    Pretty awesome, our B-2's took off from the heart of America, flew all the way to Libya, Dropped 45x2,000lb JDAM's on what I guess was 45 different targets, then flew back all the way to Missouri. Non Stop.
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  13. Post #653
    Gold Member
    Silly Sil's Avatar
    March 2006
    5,103 Posts
    Pretty awesome, our B-2's took off from the heart of America, flew all the way to Libya, Dropped 45x2,000lb JDAM's on what I guess was 45 different targets, then flew back all the way to Missouri. Non Stop.
    Those B-2's gonna have like a redbull tank somewhere in there.
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  14. Post #654
    Gold Member
    TheTalon's Avatar
    June 2008
    19,896 Posts
    For the pilots maybe... I wonder if they had a second crew with them on-board, or if one napped while the other was awake... They did re fuel in flight though
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  15. Post #655
    Gold Member
    Swilly's Avatar
    December 2009
    16,020 Posts
    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/03/1...#comment-72665
    Some of the comments on this are so hilariously backwards.
    Nihal Fernando

    If people are supporting a war against Gadaffi, you are very single minded. Are you aware that they are ALREADY going to have a civil war against Libya? The only reason this war persists is because for Oil. ITs not becasue the US feels SORRY for the innocent people, there are definitely better ways to support the rebels than what they are doing now. I do not support the rebels and I do not support the allies. I hope there will be more protests against this pointless war.
    Lisa

    Why did the president of the United States go to the UN to seek permission to attack a sovereign and independent country and not go through congress. Because congress would have said NO. Hearings had already been held in regards to this situation. The pentagon and intelligence said this is a civil war. These are not unarmed citizens, they are armed rebels attempting to over throw Gahdafi.
    It’s naive to think this is about a no fly zone. This is about getting Gahdafi out…period. If the US was concerned about the civilians we would have gone into Iraq. Why Libya and why not Iran? Libya gave up it’s WMD”S, Iran is perusing them. Iran has been systematically killing and torturing its people since their bloody march for freedom began in June 2009. Why did one of the most dangerous threats to world security escape criticism, sanction and retaliation for the unmatched killing and torture of the millions who marched the streets for freedom against Islamic theocracy?
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  16. Post #656
    Gold Member
    Maucer's Avatar
    August 2007
    2,314 Posts
    For the pilots maybe... I wonder if they had a second crew with them on-board, or if one napped while the other was awake... They did re fuel in flight though
    The B-2 is mostly automatic. There are only two crew members, but still the other can take a nap, have a shit, or make a meal in a microwave while the other is keeping an eye on the flight.
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  17. Post #657
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,008 Posts
    or make a meal in a microwave
    Does this plane get any better?
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  18. Post #658
    Rautatie's Avatar
    May 2010
    267 Posts
    As a Finn, I am terribly ashamed that we have no plans whatsoever to take part in this operation D:
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  19. Post #659
    Scar's Avatar
    September 2010
    4,167 Posts
    As a Finn, I am terribly ashamed that we have no plans whatsoever to take part in this operation D:
    I know that feeling :smith:

    :hf:

    :smith:
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  20. Post #660
    Brage Nyman's Avatar
    May 2010
    2,348 Posts
    Althou i'm a sick fuck that actually enjoy war, i suddenly started to use my tiny brain. Is really bombing the right thing to do?

    War to liberate the people? Sure, but i bet that the hate on gadaffi and his goons is pretty overrated. War will result in refugees, pain and probably more terrorism in the end.

    Imagine so much food and blankets a single tomahawk missile would give.

  21. Post #661
    Jsm
    "Belgium is pretty much a non-country"
    Jsm's Avatar
    June 2006
    8,008 Posts
    Althou i'm a sick fuck that actually enjoy war, i suddenly started to use my tiny brain. Is really bombing the right thing to do?

    War to liberate the people? Sure, but i bet that the hate on gadaffi and his goons is pretty overrated. War will result in refugees, pain and probably more terrorism in the end.

    Imagine so much food and blankets a single tomahawk missile would give.
    Blankets and food are useless if people are going to be attacked by their government.
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  22. Post #662
    Gold Member
    smurfy's Avatar
    October 2007
    21,881 Posts
    I love the effect this crisis has had on British politics. The parties were at each other's fucking throats over EVERYTHING and it was really pissing me off, but over this they're united.
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  23. Post #663
    Brage Nyman's Avatar
    May 2010
    2,348 Posts
    Blankets and food are useless if people are going to be attacked by their government.
    Blankets and food are also useless when the people is being attacked by other governments.

    I'm putting mine tinfoil hat on and i'll say there is more then liberating behind this.

  24. Post #664
    Gold Member
    acds's Avatar
    October 2008
    14,947 Posts
    Have to say one thing though, all this didn't happen because we feel sorry for the rebels and the population. It could have been 10 times worse and even then we wouldn't have intervened unless we had something to gain.
    I'm not complaining though, we gain from it, the Lybian people gain from it. Everyone is happy.
    Well except Gadaffi, but that's ok.
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  25. Post #665
    I SHOULDN'T OWN A FIREARM
    GunFox's Avatar
    May 2005
    7,503 Posts
    Something that looks totally wrong to us Westerners may not be to the Libyans. We in the West believe that each and every individual is of inestimable value which extends into our conduct of military operations, but should we judge how other cultures fight wars by our "superior" standards alone?

    Looks like Gaddafi hasn't learned the important lessons of avoiding targeting by precision weapons. Another feckless adversary indeed.

    From a military standpoint, everything has a value.

    Pilots are extremely expensive both in terms of money and time to train. Aircraft are, obviously, extremely expensive and not easily replaced even if you have the money.

    It isn't western values that I'm using here. It is simple math. Suicide runs with fighter aircraft don't come down in your favor.

    Especially when you kill the tyrant's brother. That isn't going to stop the conflict, but it will make him more determined to kill as many of the rebels as possible before he is removed from power.

    Edited:

    Pretty awesome, our B-2's took off from the heart of America, flew all the way to Libya, Dropped 45x2,000lb JDAM's on what I guess was 45 different targets, then flew back all the way to Missouri. Non Stop.
    Strategic bombers really live up to their name. Most aircraft deal with a few targets at most. Strategic bombers operate on a strategic scale. It isn't "blow up that tank" it is "blow up that armored division". Gotta love 'em.
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  26. Post #666
    Gold Member
    Tac Error's Avatar
    September 2007
    5,081 Posts
    From a military standpoint, everything has a value.

    Pilots are extremely expensive both in terms of money and time to train. Aircraft are, obviously, extremely expensive and not easily replaced even if you have the money.

    It isn't western values that I'm using here. It is simple math. Suicide runs with fighter aircraft don't come down in your favor.

    Especially when you kill the tyrant's brother. That isn't going to stop the conflict, but it will make him more determined to kill as many of the rebels as possible before he is removed from power.
    Once again, you are still judging his actions from our Western perspective. To take an example, you know what the US Army in the 1980s believed what kind of commander the Soviet "scientific view of war" breeded? Without typing out an entire lecture, rigid and unflexible officers (a generally unfavorable view) unsuited for the modern battlefield when in reality it was very much the opposite.

    It was from that inaccurate judgement that AirLand Battle was formed on (read FM 100-5, 1986 edition). Even though it's now outdated, I can't see it being decisively effective against Soviet doctrine in the late '80s.

    Suicide runs with combat aircraft are indeed unorthodox, but it's up to you if you want to dismiss anything that doesn't look right to you as "absolutely stupid".

    Edited:



    Strategic bombers really live up to their name. Most aircraft deal with a few targets at most. Strategic bombers operate on a strategic scale. It isn't "blow up that tank" it is "blow up that armored division". Gotta love 'em.
    ...as long as said armored division is right out in the open. Iraq loved to do that back in 1991. Giulio Douhet's theories are amusing. Isn't it good that most of America's state adversaries are dumb enough not to think of the many counters out there?
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  27. Post #667
    Gold Member
    Swilly's Avatar
    December 2009
    16,020 Posts
    Just a note for those who visited the article. I rebutted a lot of the claims there

    You know you're wrong when I can refute your claims.
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  28. Post #668
    Gold Member
    goon165's Avatar
    August 2006
    9,806 Posts
    Got to love the people trying to protest this.

    This is what it must've been like listening to the isolationist durring WWII

    I agree this war is fucking stupid. We got nothing to do with it and crime against the civilians are overrated.

    It feels like a war all about political favors and probably commodity, sure Gadaffi is a fucking moron but this is absolutely the wrong thing to do.


    Replace America first with Everyone else first.
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  29. Post #669
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,231 Posts
    Quite frankly, the UN should do more intervention in such cases. The Rwandan genocide, for example, should not have been allowed to happen. Nor what recently occurred in the Ivory Coast. UN intervention in many African crises has been toothless. That needs to change. For the moment, it's good that at least one case is getting the treatment it needs.
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  30. Post #670
    Gold Member
    MrEndangered's Avatar
    October 2006
    4,754 Posts
    Quite frankly, the UN should do more intervention in such cases. The Rwandan genocide, for example, should not have been allowed to happen. Nor what recently occurred in the Ivory Coast. UN intervention in many African crises has been toothless. That needs to change. For the moment, it's good that at least one case is getting the treatment it needs.
    Don't forget Darfur.

    Ugh. A shameful stain on humanity.

  31. Post #671
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,231 Posts
    Don't forget Darfur.

    Ugh. A shameful stain on humanity.
    Absolutely. Regardless of whether or not the current Libyan intervention has suspicious motives (I highly doubt it's for oil because as mentioned before, Western oil companies already had access to Libyan oil before the crisis), at least something is being done. We just need to start helping more countries suffering from such atrocities.
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  32. Post #672
    Gold Member
    goon165's Avatar
    August 2006
    9,806 Posts
    Absolutely. Regardless of whether or not the current Libyan intervention has suspicious motives (I highly doubt it's for oil because as mentioned before, Western oil companies already had access to Libyan oil before the crisis), at least something is being done. We just need to start helping more countries suffering from such atrocities.
    And really the idea that we're invading for Oil holds even less water because the Oil companies are saying that there will be little to no exports from Libya for six Months.

    so from that standpoint we just made it worse.


    And also agree with everything else you said, the UN was founded to put an end to this kind of shit, not for diplomats to yell at each other and write angry letters while people die.

  33. Post #673
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    3,015 Posts
    Gaddafi sends someone to bomb British plane, Britain sends British planes to bomb Gaddafi.

    It's so good to finally get revenge for Lockerbie.
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  34. Post #674
    Gold Member
    Contag's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,828 Posts
    Gaddafi sends someone to bomb British plane, Britain sends British planes to bomb Gaddafi.

    It's so good to finally get revenge for Lockerbie.
    Yeah too bad your government helped free the bomber.
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  35. Post #675
    Gold Member
    goon165's Avatar
    August 2006
    9,806 Posts
    Gaddafi sends someone to bomb British plane, Britain sends British planes to bomb Gaddafi.

    It's so good to finally get revenge for Lockerbie.
    I also laughed when he ranted about his country being the victim of terrorism.

    "Haha, no Gaddafi, you supported terrorism, you don't get to play that card."

  36. Post #676
    Gold Member
    Contag's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,828 Posts
    And really the idea that we're invading for Oil holds even less water because the Oil companies are saying that there will be little to no exports from Libya for six Months.

    so from that standpoint we just made it worse.
    So.. you're saying that supply will go down, right?
    With same amount of demand?

    So, in other words, oil companies will be able to charge more?
    Yeah they must be gutted.

  37. Post #677
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    3,015 Posts
    Yeah too bad your government helped free the bomber.
    Yeah, but that was Gordon Brown.

    And Gordon Brown was an idiot.
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  38. Post #678
    Gold Member
    goon165's Avatar
    August 2006
    9,806 Posts
    So.. you're saying that supply will go down, right?
    With same amount of demand?

    So, in other words, oil companies will be able to charge more?
    Yeah they must be gutted.
    Welp there goes arguing with you.

  39. Post #679
    Gold Member
    Contag's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,828 Posts
    Yeah, but that was Gordon Brown.

    And Gordon Brown was an idiot.
    Wasn't the Libyan government also helped by non-elected public servants?

    Edited:

    Welp there goes arguing with you.
    That's quite the argument.

  40. Post #680
    sarcastic bastard
    Wiggles's Avatar
    October 2005
    5,073 Posts
    Yeah, but that was Gordon Brown.

    And Gordon Brown was an idiot.
    It wasn't Gordon Brown, it was the Scottish government.
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