[MachiniOs]

I hope David Cameron doesn't get re-elected. If David Milliband were leading labour right now the'd be in better shape.

[Carne]

A guy got 6 months for stealing a bottle of water

[jaykray]

Carne posted:

A guy got 6 months for stealing a bottle of water

and a politician got less for stealing thousands of pounds.

[Fivas]

jaykray posted:

and a politician got less for stealing thousands of pounds.

Wow...
just... what.
That's ridiculous.

[Capitulazyguy]

Jallen posted:

What would this "non-military 'national service' for ALL 16-year-olds" involve? I'm 20 now so it won't really affect me, but I'm wondering exactly what it's going to be all about. Sounds like a load of shit to be honest.


Community service for everyone pretty much. Maybe it will solve problems, but when I was 16 (and if I had to do it now too) I wouldn't have cared about it and would have put in the least amount of effort to get through it without causing a problem for myself.

Basically all it does is stop them getting jobs vv

[Hellsten]

DaCommie1 posted:

Both sets of people want to preserve their culture, you can't honestly say Bill 101 promoted multiculturalism, nor does the separatist ideal. Matter of fact, Quebec even now does the best it can to oppress especially English and American cultures in an effort to preserve their own. Quebec tries to get its culture recognized by prevent other cultures from taking it over. In Britain, if their culture gets taken over completely, then they'd just end up becoming an America with a different accent, a nation perceived as "cultureless," despite the fact that America is far from.

Immigration is, as I see it, supposed to be about moving from one nation and culture to another, and accepting that as you have gone somewhere new they are not going to operate as your old country did, and you should do the best you can to integrate with the new society. Issues arise when that doesn't happen, and when a new culture attempts to take over, as it leads to unrest and disorder from all parties involved, the new culture because they feel the need to be recognized and the old one because they want theirs to be preserved. Such an issue has lead to wars in the past, and will likely lead to more in the future, because often times both parties feel an entitlement to their respective culture, especially if there is a lot of it present, even if it is a foreign culture. In my eyes, allowing another culture to co-exist in one's country is no problem, but when it begins to rob that country of its own culture, then it becomes a problem. That doesn't mean necessarily you should oppress the other culture, or try to eliminate it, but it can lead to major issues with national identity, and can often only be solved through concessions to the one culture that tend to take away from the other. I see no problem in saying you want to preserve your culture in your homeland, and I see no problem in saying you want some recognition of your culture in a foreign land, however I see a problem if your culture begins to take over the native one, and yes, that includes our current treatment of the Natives here.

Late, but these are my exact words. I totally agree with you. This might happen to Sweden too in a not too distant future.

[matt.ant]

Jordan Blackshaw, 21, of Marston, Cheshire, and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Warrington, also Cheshire, were jailed for four years each after admitting using Facebook to incite disorder, although none actually resulted.

A 17-year-old from Suffolk has been banned from using social networking sites for 12 months and ordered to observe a three month overnight curfew for using Facebook to encourage people to riot. He said the remarks were not meant to be taken seriously.

Anderson Fernandes, 22, was warned by a judge at Manchester Magistrates' Court he may face jail for stealing two scoops of ice cream. He will be sentenced next week after admitting burglary.

Nicolas Robinson, 23, of Borough, south-east London, was jailed for six months for burglary. He took a £3.50 case of water from Lidl supermarket

Mother-of-two Ursula Nevin, from Manchester, was jailed for five months for receiving a pair of shorts given to her after they had been looted from a city centre store.

The Recorder of Chester, Judge Elgan Edwards, said he hoped the sentences, which carried maximum sentences of 10 years, would act as a deterrent to others.

I'm all for tough sentences but wow

[jaykray]

matt.ant posted:

I'm all for tough sentences but wow

"Hmm, these people were rioting over absolutely nothing, lets give them something to riot about!"

[Megafan]

matt.ant posted:

I'm all for tough sentences but wow

They're seriously doing "deterrent" sentences? What a joke.

[MachiniOs]

Megafanx13 posted:

They're seriously doing "deterrent" sentences? What a joke.

The Conservatives are desperate to prove their Law and Order credentials so of course they are.

[matt.ant]

jaykray posted:

"Hmm, these people were rioting over absolutely nothing, lets give them something to riot about!"

No ones going to riot if it means a 10 year sentence

[MachiniOs]

matt.ant posted:

No ones going to riot if it means a 10 year sentence

That's a fucking ridiculous legth for a democracy, sure maybe if we were an autocracy but we aren't.

[Mort and Charon]

The only reason the riots spread was because people thought they could get away with it. Tough sentencing is a way to try and tell people they can't get away with it.

[Megafan]

Mort and Charon posted:

The only reason the riots spread was because people thought they could get away with it. Tough sentencing is a way to try and tell people they can't get away with it.

Tougher sentences as a "deterrent" simply don't work. It might scare people momentarily, but I guarantee you if an opportunity came by again, opportunists aren't going to stay at home and say "well if I did that I'd go to jail".

[Mort and Charon]

That's what I think they're doing it for. To stamp out the rioting completely so they can get shit together.

[Zeke129]

SUPER NANNY has the riots all figured out. It's the video games.

Edited:

matt.ant posted:

I'm all for tough sentences but wow

what bullshit

at least now people have a legit reason to riot

[Mort and Charon]

"OMG peaople getting jailed for theft!!111 RIOT!!!!"

Those sentences should be used normally. Then we'd have people who actually obeyed the law instead of not giving a shit because sentencing is so light.

[Zeke129]

Mort and Charon posted:

"OMG peaople getting jailed for theft!!111 RIOT!!!!"

Those sentences should be used normally. Then we'd have people who actually obeyed the law instead of not giving a shit because sentencing is so light.

Deterrence doesn't work

[jaykray]

Zeke129 posted:

SUPER NANNY has the riots all figured out. It's the video games.

People need to stop using phrases like "killing and burning for points", it's so archaic.

Edited:

Zeke129 posted:

Deterrence doesn't work

Has there been a nuclear war?

[Mort and Charon]

Really? Jail time instead of a fucking community service that most people get should be enough to make people think twice. It's a joke when we have police and detectives working hard to catch criminals and they get off with hardly anything. What happened to the "Justice"?

My dad worked a case on a thief, who committed 12 burglaries (one was his own grandmother) and 2 muggings. Got him to admit to them all and everything. He got 5 years. Won't even serve all of that.

[jaykray]

Mort and Charon posted:

Really? Jail time instead of a fucking community service that most people get should be enough to make people think twice. It's a joke when we have police and detectives working hard to catch criminals and they get off with hardly anything. What happened to the "Justice"?

My dad worked a case on a thief, who committed 12 burglaries (one was his own grandmother) and 2 muggings. Got him to admit to them all and everything. He got 5 years. Won't even serve all of that.

Justice means nothing when people are looking

[Megafan]

Mort and Charon posted:

Really? Jail time instead of a fucking community service that most people get should be enough to make people think twice. It's a joke when we have police and detectives working hard to catch criminals and they get off with hardly anything. What happened to the "Justice"?

Sounds to me like you aren't interesting in reform, rehabilitation, or any real "justice", only retribution and bloodlust.

Edited:

jaykray posted:

Has there been a nuclear war?

You're seriously comparing Mutually Assured Destruction to "tough on crime" policies?

Edited:

Mort and Charon posted:

"OMG peaople getting jailed for theft!!111 RIOT!!!!"

Those sentences should be used normally. Then we'd have people who actually obeyed the law instead of not giving a shit because sentencing is so light.

That has not worked and will never work.

Edited:

Mort and Charon posted:

To stamp out the rioting completely so they can get shit together.

Again, that's not going to be the result.

[Turnips5]

Zeke129 posted:

SUPER NANNY has the riots all figured out. It's the video games.

ah what

Supernanny was fun to watch, that woman was disturbingly good at child discipline. Then the parents invariably let it all go to hell again in the week where she disappeared

[Vasili]

MachiniOs posted:

I hope David Cameron doesn't get re-elected. If David Milliband were leading labour right now the'd be in better shape.

No thanks, the cunt took out 30k on expenses to do repairs, decorations, and furnishings for his spare house.

Edited:

His brother is also a joke of a leader.

[jaykray]

Vasili posted:

No thanks, the cunt took out 30k on expenses to do repairs, decorations, and furnishings for his spare house.

Edited:

His brother is also a joke of a leader.

The country is between a cock and a fireplace.

[Zeke129]

jaykray posted:

Has there been a nuclear war?

yeah, it was pretty one-sided though

[MachiniOs]

jaykray posted:

Has there been a nuclear war?

Uhm you affect quite a few more people through Nuclear war than you do through rioting.

Edited:

Vasili posted:

No thanks, the cunt took out 30k on expenses to do repairs, decorations, and furnishings for his spare house.

Edited:

His brother is also a joke of a leader.

Better than David Cameron who keeps rushing ideas for legislation to appease the public without thinking it through.

[Mort and Charon]

Megafanx13 posted:

Sounds to me like you aren't interesting in reform, rehabilitation, or any real "justice", only retribution and bloodlust.Edited:You're seriously comparing Mutually Assured Destruction to "tough on crime" policies?Edited:That has not worked and will never work.Edited:Again, that's not going to be the result.

Bloodlust? Haha, I haven't mentioned anything like that, stop putting words in my mouth. I do think rehabilitation is very important, otherwise the prison sentence is wasted. But I think they need to be sufficiently punished, the Police are being let down by the "justice" system.And as for the tough rioting sentences, I think the Police and government need to put out a message that it won't be tolerated, to stop it kicking off again.

[Megafan]

Mort and Charon posted:

But I think they need to be sufficiently punished

And what do you consider "sufficient" punishment?

Mort and Charon posted:

the Police are being let down by the "justice" system.

How are the police let down if criminals are treated with rehabilitation in mind rather than punishment?

Mort and Charon posted:

And as for the tough rioting sentences, I think the Police and government need to put out a message that it won't be tolerated, to stop it kicking off again.

And when has this tactic ever worked exactly? From what I know, deterrent sentencing does not and has not ever been successful in lowering the crime rate in any way long-term.

[smurfy]

Zeke129 posted:

SUPER NANNY has the riots all figured out. It's the video games.

Reminds me of that Byron woman who did a Supernanny-style show back when they were 'in.' The government commissioned her to do a study on whether video games are ruining our childrens minds, and she reported that video games were actually pretty cool and the people need to shit the fuck up with sensationalist bullshit

[matt.ant]

At least it will shut that person up who was on the BBC news who said, "So what if I get caught? it's my first offence, nothing's going to happen."

[MachiniOs]

matt.ant posted:

At least it will shut that person up who was on the BBC news who said, "So what if I get caught? it's my first offence, nothing's going to happen."

What so now we should violate free speech eh?

[jaykray]

MachiniOs posted:

What so now we should violate free speech eh?

Are you saying that black people shouldn't have free speech? I've been to england once so I know it very well and it is a very racist country. You are all racist and I am right.

[lukepker]

jaykray posted:

Are you saying that black people shouldn't have free speech? I've been to england once so I know it very well and it is a very racist country. You are all racist and I am right.

What?

[MachiniOs]

jaykray posted:

Are you saying that black people shouldn't have free speech? I've been to england once so I know it very well and it is a very racist country. You are all racist and I am right.

1) Who said the person quoted was Black
2)Part of the population is discriminatory, as with evey country but that doesn't mean that they are the majority. Hate groups like the BNP and the EDL have little to no support.
3)It's a well known fact that the majority of the UK hates England so I can obviously see you're biased due to the fact that you've misconstrued my sentance.

[jaykray]

How soon they forget

[MachiniOs]

jaykray posted:

How soon they forget

ProTip: A vague sentance =/= An argument.

[jaykray]

MachiniOs posted:

ProTip: A vague sentance =/= An argument.

I'm not arguing with you at all

[Megafan]

jaykray posted:

How soon they forget

Are you dense?

[Capitulazyguy]

MachiniOs posted:

What so now we should violate free speech eh?

That's not what he was saying at all. Stop trying to twist his words.

Edited:

MachiniOs posted:

3)It's a well known fact that the majority of the UK hates England so I can obviously see you're biased due to the fact that you've misconstrued my sentance.

Considering that England contains 84% of the UK's population, I really doubt that.