1. Post #161
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap.
    again... Scientists aren't chavs.

  2. Post #162
    Gold Member
    darkedone02's Avatar
    February 2006
    2,575 Posts
    I like to learn about other religions out there in the world that i am not familiar with. However in my opinion, I don't really follow religion and the beliefs of gods and goddesses, instead i just follow my own moral code and proper justice.

  3. Post #163
    Potanis's Avatar
    April 2011
    585 Posts
    Religion is an extremely interesting mental development. most religious people just blindly stumble into it without actually taking a step back and thinking about it. But, if your religious, that would kind of defeat the purpose.

  4. Post #164
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,725 Posts
    I come from really lefty beat generation parents so I've always been interested in eastern philosophies like Falun gong and Daoism

  5. Post #165
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    Would anyone here read the Quran/Koran?

  6. Post #166
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,725 Posts
    Would anyone here read the Quran/Koran?
    I haven't read it but I know a few Muslims and it does intrigue me. Especially the misconception that Fatwa is exclusively an assassination thing

    Edited:

    honestly, I think this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructionist_Judaism is the best form of abrahamic theology I've seen.

  7. Post #167
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    I'm sorry man but there is something horrifically wrong with your thought process.

    You call the big bang a mystical ball that had been there all along, when it's actually is a theory that has logic and evidence to back it up (yet science isn't claiming to know what happened before the big bang just yet). Yet you believe in another mystical ball that had been there all along (God) and assume he must have created it all instead because a book written by men says so.
    The only proof that I know of that science has to support the big bang theory is that the universe is expanding. Other than that, I wouldn't know. And I don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with me believing in God. I believe what I believe because (you even said it yourself) we do not know what happened before the big bang.

    Edited:

    You argument is hard to take seriously when you keep relating scientific statements to terrible internet "dialect".
    Shitty.

    Edited:

    please don't take Deaded38's form of argument as the norm for theists, my Jewish friend has on many occasions had rational and drawn out debates with me concerning his faith. I think religion should work on a reconstructionist theory, like a lot of Jews do.

    fuck I just realised I originally wrote revisionism, which could be taken quite badly by a jewish person
    Why? Because I am not an overly-religious person? Correct me if I'm wrong.

  8. Post #168
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,725 Posts
    Why? Because I am not an overly-religious person? Correct me if I'm wrong.
    your arguments just have an air of juvenility to them, you haven't really looked up both sides of the argument properly, and you haven't even really looked up your own side. Fair enough if you choose to believe what you want, but your attitude towards scientific reasoning is incredibly retroactive

  9. Post #169
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    The only proof that I know of that science has to support the big bang theory is that the universe is expanding. Other than that, I wouldn't know. And I don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with me believing in God. I believe what I believe because (you even said it yourself) we do not know what happened before the big bang.
    So basically your thought process is: "Science doesn't know what happened before the big bang yet.. therefore god_reigns."

  10. Post #170
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,426 Posts
    Would anyone here read the Quran/Koran?
    Tried reading it once, just for kicks. It was like all other 600+ year old mythological texts, nothing special, except the way it is set up. The older chapters (as in, those that were written first), which have generally short verses, appear later in the book and deal with the more spiritual and mythological things, while the newer chapters deal with more worldly things, such as lifestyle, warfare, and the like.

    It was about as positive a reading experience as reading the Bible is.

  11. Post #171
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,607 Posts
    I must not have been thinking when I wrote that. Let me correct myself.

    I believe in God because I don't see how this universe was created by a mystical ball that had supposedly been there all along. I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap. I've already said if there is absolute solid proof, that I will believe it. If not, that's shitty.
    The idea of matter coming from a outward expansion seems less plausible to you than some omnipotent entity doing it all?

    Edited:

    The only proof that I know of that science has to support the big bang theory is that the universe is expanding. Other than that, I wouldn't know. And I don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with me believing in God. I believe what I believe because (you even said it yourself) we do not know what happened before the big bang.
    So because science does not have the answer to every mystery of life, you default to God because somehow it's more plausible than scientific theory?

  12. Post #172
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    It was about as positive a reading experience as reading the Bible is.
    Well I've only read a bit of it. So I'm guessing it didn't do much for you in terms of emotions.

    Edited:

    I believe what I believe because (you even said it yourself) we do not know what happened before the big bang.
    I get it, you don't know what to believe in, so you choose the almighty Man upstairs. Fair enough, if you like him then good for you.

  13. Post #173
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    August 2005
    12,791 Posts
    I think some people just follow a religious path because it was basically crammed down their throat by their parents or someone else, and now they don't know how to actually give a good answer for a good question about their own religion.

    Others are just blind followers who only see it as the only way and nothing else matters, even if they are wrong.

  14. Post #174
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,426 Posts
    Well I've only read a bit of it. So I'm guessing it didn't do much for you in terms of emotions.
    Not really. Oh, and I didn't read all of it, might have sounded misguiding before. Mostly the chapters dealing with politics and jihad.

  15. Post #175
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,607 Posts
    Well I've only read a bit of it. So I'm guessing it didn't do much for you in terms of emotions.
    I would hope someone would look at the book for what it says, and not just put faith in it based on the stories swaying one's emotions.

  16. Post #176
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    I would hope someone would look at the book for what it says, and not just put faith in it based on the stories swaying one's emotions.
    I want to know more about the mythology behind it, because apparently some of the stories aren't exactly "original", some of them are in older books predating all of it.

    I would research it, but it feels like an arduous task.

  17. Post #177
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    Alright, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Name a few experiences.
    For me it's mostly little things. Quite a lot of little things throughout a number of years.

    One example: for the last couple of months I've been going to a new bible-study group run by some members of my church. So far, the theme for nearly every evening has been something that has been on my mind in the days leading up to them. As a result I usually have questions and thoughts lined up ready to discuss. I feel that god made me think about these subjects beforehand so that I have time to think. Generally, if there's something bothering me, somebody is always there ready to help.

    I've had (what I consider) answers to prayers: such as finding a job that suits me, healing when I smashed my foot with a paving slab and probably the strangest was (to cut a long story short) a friend at church offering to lend me money, completely out of the blue when I really needed it.

    Also I know a lot of people who have been changed radically for the better after becoming Christians. Seeing what they're like with that purpose in their life makes me feel good.

    For me there have been loads of times over several years that something (usually small and insignificant to most people) has happened that makes me feel like there is somebody there.

    There's no way that I can prove any of this and I don't expect you to take my word for it, but you did ask.

  18. Post #178
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    Alright, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Name a few experiences.
    When I was listening to Pink Floyd's Echoes with big headphones while on a journey, while the weather here was "blizzard-like" and snow everywhere, I felt an "out of body experience" there that can't be compared to much I've experienced in music before.
    But then again, I've had a lot of them over the last 3 or so years.

  19. Post #179
    Hunt3r.j2's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,868 Posts
    The problem with religion is when I know people that have their parents quite literally using it to strangle them. Things like having constant keylogging and screencaps of what they're doing on the computer, extensive parental controls, constant bible-thumping about how they have sinned and must repent, no leaving the house, no walking home, no going out with friends, etc.

    You see, if you take out religion, all of these actions become far less palatable. Religion is great because it was a form of government before we really figured out the whole government idea, but since then it's really just become a tradition that no one really examines. This is deeply related with the concept of securitization, in which by declaring something a matter of national security we just accept it instead of being able to examine it critically. Discourse is a necessary part of examining any aspect of a debate, and as a result religion is harder to palate because it inherently requires the removal of critical thought and a dependence on faith.

  20. Post #180
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,607 Posts
    One example: for the last couple of months I've been going to a new bible-study group run by some members of my church. So far, the theme for nearly every evening has been something that has been on my mind in the days leading up to them. As a result I usually have questions and thoughts lined up ready to discuss. I feel that god made me think about these subjects beforehand so that I have time to think. Generally, if there's something bothering me, somebody is always there ready to help.
    Why do you believe God had anything to do with you thinking about these subjects more, and why would he "make you" think about them even if he did?

    I've had (what I consider) answers to prayers: such as finding a job that suits me, healing when I smashed my foot with a paving slab and probably the strangest was (to cut a long story short) a friend at church offering to lend me money, completely out of the blue when I really needed it.
    Those are not unrealistic occurrences, and frankly I see no point in attributing something like that to God, because like most things of this nature, it's entirely unverifiable.

    Also I know a lot of people who have been changed radically for the better after becoming Christians. Seeing what they're like with that purpose in their life makes me feel good.
    That's less because of God himself, and more because of them attaining a sense of community, which is fine in its own respect.

    For me there have been loads of times over several years that something (usually small and insignificant to most people) has happened that makes me feel like there is somebody there.

    There's no way that I can prove any of this and I don't expect you to take my word for it, but you did ask.
    But this is exactly my point. A handful of seemingly meaningful events that in actuality are not that out of the ordinary don't prove anything really.

    If God had the time and patience to get you a job or heal your foot, why does he not lift people out of poverty, why not help out other people who are getting cholera or polio in poor parts of the world? If he has the time to help a middle class guy in the US, surely he has time for these other, more important things?

  21. Post #181
    Hunt3r.j2's Avatar
    July 2009
    2,868 Posts
    Why have some sort of trust in science? The fact that scientists are okay with flat out saying that they don't know is pretty good to me. No one is omnipotent in knowledge, and I notice that religious people claim to know far more than scientists do.

  22. Post #182
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,607 Posts
    Why have some sort of trust in science? The fact that scientists are okay with flat out saying that they don't know is pretty good to me. No one is omnipotent in knowledge, and I notice that religious people claim to know far more than scientists do.
    Because when scientists claim to know something, they back it up with evidence, and admit that they were wrong. The Bible has gone through so many edits, yet has always claimed to be correct and know the answers to how our world was created.

  23. Post #183
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    Science is more of a "happening" rather than a topic with a basis.

    The only basis science has is the method, but I can't really more than that because there's far too much going on in science to comprehend.

  24. Post #184
    Gold Member
    squids_eye's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,626 Posts
    the strangest was (to cut a long story short) a friend at church offering to lend me money, completely out of the blue when I really needed it.
    Do you not consider it a little ungrateful to credit a concerned friends charity to an act of the almighty?

  25. Post #185
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,725 Posts
    When I was listening to Pink Floyd's Echoes with big headphones while on a journey, while the weather here was "blizzard-like" and snow everywhere, I felt an "out of body experience" there that can't be compared to much I've experienced in music before.
    But then again, I've had a lot of them over the last 3 or so years.
    I actually had a really William Blake-style vision due to music and a binaural beats track. I was listening to this weird "fake drugs music" which is supposed to replicate drugs, although it didn't to my experience it was still very esoteric the feeling I got. I was on my way through the lake district in autumn and it was raining quite heavily outside our car. Suddenly the track on my Ipod switched from this quiet ambientish track to Radio nowhere by Bruce Springsteen. I opened my eyes in shock and even though I was only on a road surrounded by grey rainy trees, I had this very definite feeling in the deepest part of me that I was in 'hell', or that the world had ended and life had left. It's an indescribably beautiful and horrific moment.

    I guess that's the closest I've ever been to a 'religious experience' really

  26. Post #186
    J-Dude's Avatar
    December 2007
    1,641 Posts
    Some are a bit more stubborn bro. Let things die down in the middle east and we'll get back to the peace road pretty soon. Well not that soon...
    Die down in the Middle East? How, when and why?

    I don't foresee the hyper-religious mideast doing anything less than becoming more and more aggressive and proactive as long as the civilized world leans towards secular humanism, which it inevitably is, regardless of whether the United States EVER recovers from the downward spiral of the similarly advancing religious right or not.

    The best thing we can do is keep pushing education and not react to their threats whenever we breach taboos of THEIR religious culture. They won't "die down", they're behavior will escalate as their status quo is threatened by a changing world, but only by remaining firm will our ideals ever infiltrate their culture and at LEAST soften them, kicking and screaming, to the relatively "docile" standard of modern-day Christianity.

  27. Post #187
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    I actually had a really William Blake-style vision due to music and a binaural beats track. I was listening to this weird "fake drugs music" which is supposed to replicate drugs, although it didn't to my experience it was still very esoteric the feeling I got. I was on my way through the lake district in autumn and it was raining quite heavily outside our car. Suddenly the track on my Ipod switched from this quiet ambientish track to Radio nowhere by Bruce Springsteen. I opened my eyes in shock and even though I was only on a road surrounded by grey rainy trees, I had this very definite feeling in the deepest part of me that I was in 'hell', or that the world had ended and life had left. It's an indescribably beautiful and horrific moment.

    I guess that's the closest I've ever been to a 'religious experience' really
    Trust Bruce Springsteen to ruin a deep moment in someone's life. :]

  28. Post #188
    Mr. Scorpio's Avatar
    May 2010
    11,072 Posts
    Science is more of a "happening" rather than a topic with a basis.

    The only basis science has is the method, but I can't really more than that because there's far too much going on in science to comprehend.
    I can't really more than that either AK'z. I don't know who can really more than that.

  29. Post #189
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    I'm going to not debate with you if thats your atittude. Your being stupid
    Fighting generalization with generalization. I was explaining how dumb generalizing is.

  30. Post #190
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    How, when and why?
    Dude I'm not some kind of Superman, we'll have to wait and see.

    Edited:

    I can't really more than that either AK'z. I don't know who can really more than that.
    Nobody can really more than that no more, any more.

  31. Post #191
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,725 Posts
    Trust Bruce Springsteen to ruin a deep moment in someone's life. :]
    I think he actually made it in a way, that traumatic musical experience actually drove me to some of my best writing while I was at the lake district. I keep getting the feeling I should go back there and try to rekindle that moment, though I may actually require genuine psychadelics this time

  32. Post #192
    Mr. Scorpio's Avatar
    May 2010
    11,072 Posts
    Dude I'm not some kind of Superman, we'll have to wait and see.
    It must be really hard to predict the future when you live in a drug afflicted crazy world that looks like a cross between Life Force and Yellow Submarine, huh.

  33. Post #193
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    So basically your thought process is: "Science doesn't know what happened before the big bang yet.. therefore god_reigns."
    Yes, I don't see how that's a problem. You people think that science is the answer to anything and everything. Well, I don't. Deal with it.

  34. Post #194
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,725 Posts
    It must be really hard to predict the future when you live in a drug afflicted crazy world that looks like a cross between Life Force and Yellow Submarine, huh.
    in religion threads, do you seriously try and prove that you are the rational one by being a snippy twat to everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest? Because that's all I've really seen you do so far. You attack people and use sarcasm like that makes you smarter. You are literally the atheist giving other atheists a bad name at this point

  35. Post #195
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    In my opinion, all that you have to say is typical amongst "Raged Atheists" (not that all atheists are raged)
    Double standard much? Someone said all atheists are x and I'm explaining why generalizing is wrong. But apparently thats bad and makes me an angsty, angry atheist. You always construe everything you here from atheists to be bad. You need to stop that and thats why you think all most atheists do is hate on religion all day.

  36. Post #196
    Gold Member
    AK'z's Avatar
    January 2011
    29,686 Posts
    in religion threads, do you seriously try and prove that you are the rational one by being a snippy twat to everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest? Because that's all I've really seen you do so far. You attack people and use sarcasm like that makes you smarter. You are literally the atheist giving other atheists a bad name at this point
    Nah, he's a good guy. I just confused the shit out of him in the past with some psychedelic words. ;)

    Edited:

    Double standard much? Someone said all atheists are x and I'm explaining why generalizing is wrong. But apparently thats bad and makes me an angsty, angry atheist. You always construe everything you here from atheists to be bad. You need to stop that and thats why you think all most atheists do is hate on religion all day.
    Nope, just you.

  37. Post #197
    Gold Member
    strayebyrd's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,725 Posts
    Nah, he's a good guy. I just confused the shit out of him in the past with some psychedelic words. ;)
    that's aces I guess, I just can't stand the use of Ad hominem in a discussion, especially when the person is trying to appear like the logical one

  38. Post #198
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    People are happy = You are unhappy because they are happy about something you don't care for.
    Yep thats exactly what he said. Its like whenever an atheist says something you read it as if they are saying how badly they hate every christian and wish they would all die or something.

  39. Post #199
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    I get it, you don't know what to believe in, so you choose the almighty Man upstairs. Fair enough, if you like him then good for you.
    No, I believe in God. Maybe not all the principles Christianity follows (gays are bad, everyone goes to hell if they aren't a firm believer, etc). I'm not going to hold is against anybody for believing that science is the answer to everything. If you want to believe in something, go ahead. I don't give a damn if you believe in a fairy tortoise that is a pimp.

  40. Post #200
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    Nope, just you.
    Oh so you create double standards for just me. Thats a lot better. Oh wait no you don't from what I have just seen you do that with other atheists too. You're worse then the rage filled angsty atheists you talk about. Thinking they are concerned with your belief and judging you.