1. Post #1
    Gold Member
    Ganerumo's Avatar
    September 2011
    17,143 Posts
    Hello there.

    This debate is about the existence of Religion. We are not here to argue which religion is the best or if religion should or shouldn't exist, but to discuss about why religion was "invented" in the first place.

    In my opinion, Religion was first invented because Man needed common morals, a landmark so everyone would unite and stay together - but also because of a feeling of loneliness than even to this day is still present (to an even bigger scale when you think about it, but that's another debate entirely) and still needs to be fulfilled - knowing there is one or multiple fatherly/motherly figure watching you and guiding you can be comforting, and can help you going through the hardest moments of your life.

    What's your opinion on the matter ? Does religion exist because of a need of morals, because of the need of a superior figure, or for any other reason ?
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  2. Post #2
    x Haste's Avatar
    December 2011
    19 Posts
    I would surmise that religion exists in part from what you stated in your opinion, and the fact that people see/know things they can't explain or understand through other means. I would say other reasons include how there is no definitive proof of how the universe began, and the fact that science cannot explain life after death or any type of existence after death and that is unacceptable to most, if not all practitioners of religion.

    But I suppose what you're asking is partly "how did it come into existence?" My answer to that would simply be that there was no real scientific study to contradict the existence of an "omnipotent being" in early human history so religion provided the most viable explanation for questions that couldn't be answered.
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  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    Ganerumo's Avatar
    September 2011
    17,143 Posts
    But I suppose what you're asking is partly "how did it come into existence?" My answer to that would simply be that there was no real scientific study to contradict the existence of an "omnipotent being" in early human history so religion provided the most viable explanation for questions that couldn't be answered.
    That's part of the question indeed. But to be honest even now I don't think there's any proof of a lack of omnipotent being - if anything, it seems like we are even getting closer to a proof of its existence, even if it's more of a particle/an intangible entity than a god as pictured in common religion.
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  4. Post #4
    x Haste's Avatar
    December 2011
    19 Posts
    That's part of the question indeed. But to be honest even now I don't think there's any proof of a lack of omnipotent being - if anything, it seems like we are even getting closer to a proof of its existence, even if it's more of a particle/an intangible entity than a god as pictured in common religion.
    Indeed. I think the argument of "science is disproving what the Bible says" (I go with Christianity, I'm not so educated on the other religions) is an over-generalization. In many studies, cross-referencing what the Bible says with historical landmarks & archaeological evidence, the Bible actually coincides with what we draw from history. But unproven discrepancies are seen as reason enough to discredit the Bible along with the fact that there are some things in the Bible that, due to the physical nature of "proof," cannot be answered with tangible evidence.

    That said, I think the deconstructive arguments are more centered around the close-minded nature that surrounded religion and still does to this day. You can accept and learn so much from science and still be a "believer." It's just bias that says someone who practices religion must be an ignorant savage.
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    Ganerumo's Avatar
    September 2011
    17,143 Posts
    Indeed. I think the argument of "science is disproving what the Bible says" (I go with Christianity, I'm not so educated on the other religions) is an over-generalization. In many studies, cross-referencing what the Bible says with historical landmarks & archaeological evidence, the Bible actually coincides with what we draw from history. But unproven discrepancies are seen as reason enough to discredit the Bible along with the fact that there are some things in the Bible that, due to the physical nature of "proof," cannot be answered with tangible evidence.

    That said, I think the deconstructive arguments are more centered around the close-minded nature that surrounded religion and still does to this day. You can accept and learn so much from science and still be a "believer." It's just bias that says someone who practices religion must be an ignorant savage.
    Well as far as I know a lot of science fiction that takes place in our world (only in the future of course) tends to have a religion even though science made gigantic jumps forward, religion based on an entity rather than a defined god with a physical appearance and comprehensible functions and wishes, and I'm pretty sure in a hundred years or two, this will pretty much be the case for real life as well.
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  6. Post #6
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    I thought religion began in the tribal stage of humanity when they began to apply spiritual qualities to things, and out of that they developed gods and slowly phased out the other gods until they were left with one single divine entity. Very similar I would say to Marxist stages of history.

    Animism > Polytheism > Monotheism > Reformation > Atheism
    Tribal > Slavery > Feudalism > Capitalism > Socialism
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  7. Post #7
    NATURALLY WIRED TO HAVE SEX WITH KIDS
    Rubs10's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,754 Posts
    Nietzsche posted:
    In the ages of crude, primeval culture, man believed that in dreams he got to know another real world; here is the origin of all metaphysics. Without the dream one would have found no occasion for a division of the world. The separation of body and soul, too, is related to the most ancient conception of the dream; also the assumption of a quasi-body of the soul, which is the origin of all belief in spirits, and probably also of the belief in gods. “The dead live on; for they appear to the living in dreams”; this inference went unchallenged for many thousands of years.
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  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,059 Posts
    I've always seen religion as something people choose to answer 'why' things happen rather than 'how'
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  9. Post #9
    Goodthief's Avatar
    December 2009
    5,967 Posts
    Religion was initially made for filling in gaps in knowledge. Don't know how lightning is formed? it's Thor!

    and then people in power started using religion to control the masses: "Do this or you will die" and since people already considered religion as a sign of knowledge then they followed. Soon this came to be how religion is the supposed sign of how religion is the sign of morals
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  10. Post #10
    Douchebags's Avatar
    May 2008
    323 Posts
    Hello there.

    This debate is about the existence of Religion. We are not here to argue which religion is the best or if religion should or shouldn't exist, but to discuss about why religion was "invented" in the first place.

    In my opinion, Religion was first invented because Man needed common morals, a landmark so everyone would unite and stay together - but also because of a feeling of loneliness than even to this day is still present (to an even bigger scale when you think about it, but that's another debate entirely) and still needs to be fulfilled - knowing there is one or multiple fatherly/motherly figure watching you and guiding you can be comforting, and can help you going through the hardest moments of your life.

    What's your opinion on the matter ? Does religion exist because of a need of morals, because of the need of a superior figure, or for any other reason ?
    My opinion is religion is "needed" and i use that term loosely now, as an evolutionary trait. It's simply really. I agree that they needed something to help "bond" people together no matter what their differences are, as long as you "believe" in one god/goddess then you have something in common and it makes you connected which creates a community, which then will create a nation. i always thought it was funny because it makes sense to create religion and whoever came up with the religion in general should be awarded a great prize in coaxing people through the thousands of years to die for a simplistic idea of "paradise" I know i jumped trains but it makes sense and i'll explain:

    Let's say your king wants you to fight in his army and it is considered an honor to do so. Well lets also say that if you fight and die he says that "god" will reward you. You then don't feel so afraid of the fact that you're about to throw your life away for an idea such as "fighting for god and country" Without that "promise" of serving the lord in battle men will lose their morale and not want to throw their life away so easily.
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  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    DMGaina's Avatar
    May 2007
    2,718 Posts
    As an excuse to conquer lands, torture and kill people.
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  12. Post #12
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,310 Posts
    some people need to make shit up to explain things they don't understand, and to control people. The ten commandments and other laws are not moral codes, they are simply laws, and they are not all moral, and I'm glad people are starting to understand that.
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  13. Post #13
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    As an excuse to conquer lands, torture and kill people.
    This guy wants a word with you.
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  14. Post #14
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,310 Posts
    This guy wants a word with you.
    I think he's referring to the other large religions, Islam, and the other ones that follow the bible. Crusades, Inquisition, and quite frankly the story of muhammed
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  15. Post #15
    kill yourself
    Protocol7's Avatar
    June 2006
    25,841 Posts
    As much of a joke as it is, there's an image that says "Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings."

    Religion was a way to explain the unexplainable, and later used as exploitation by the people smart enough to do so. That's how I see it anyway. Nowadays it serves as a segmentation of people, for no good reason.
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  16. Post #16
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    I think he's referring to the other large religions, Islam, and the other ones that follow the bible. Crusades, Inquisition, and quite frankly the story of muhammed
    I was just pointing out that his post doesn't answer the question that was asked in the OP.
    "Religion" doesn't just mean Judaism,Christianity and Islam. There are a lot more out there.
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  17. Post #17
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,310 Posts
    I was just pointing out that his post doesn't answer the question that was asked in the OP.
    "Religion" doesn't just mean Judaism,Christianity and Islam. There are a lot more out there.
    It answers the overall theme on the question, not a specific religion. I don't know much about Buddhism so I won't comment on whether you can justify killing or torturing using it, so I suppose in that respect I do understand your point.
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    Ganerumo's Avatar
    September 2011
    17,143 Posts
    As an excuse to conquer lands, torture and kill people.
    Oh come on

    Edited:

    I think he's referring to the other large religions, Islam, and the other ones that follow the bible. Crusades, Inquisition, and quite frankly the story of muhammed
    Let's not get into that debate, it's really not the point
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  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Droogie's Avatar
    July 2007
    2,083 Posts
    knowing there is one or multiple fatherly/motherly figure watching you and guiding you can be comforting, and can help you going through the hardest moments of your life.
    In essence, this also extends to governing entire communities. The ancient Egyptians during the early Dynastic period were entirely dependent on the great Nile river that extended throughout the kingdom, and had an organised system of religion and government that reflected that by valuing autonomy above virtually everything else.
    Pagan medieval Scandinavian clans were scattered across Northern Europe and often fought over titles and power, which is also reflected in their worship of an omniscient court of gods that ruled over Northern lands regardless of civil unrest. Their perceived laws were therefore honored in common disputes.
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  20. Post #20
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,502 Posts
    As an excuse to conquer lands, torture and kill people.
    dumb dumb dumb da-dumb dumb dumb
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  21. Post #21
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,310 Posts
    Oh come on

    Edited:



    Let's not get into that debate, it's really not the point
    fair enough

    dumb dumb dumb da-dumb dumb dumb

    It's not dumb, it may not answer the question but it has some truth to it.
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  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    Ganerumo's Avatar
    September 2011
    17,143 Posts
    It's not dumb, it may not answer the question but it has some truth to it.
    It has nothing to do with the subject at all though.
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  23. Post #23
    Typhoonx10's Avatar
    July 2010
    866 Posts
    "Religion is to keep the poor from murdering the rich"
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  24. Post #24
    semite's Avatar
    July 2011
    145 Posts
    Who cares? Let people believe the bullshit if they choose to. They might even make some friends at church (friends with JESUS).
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  25. Post #25
    Dr. Evilcop's Avatar
    May 2011
    2,976 Posts
    Who cares? Let people believe the bullshit if they choose to. They might even make some friends at church (friends with JESUS).
    So they can then call me a bad person for not believing their religion and further try to shove it down our throats when things need to be done.

    Ok.
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  26. Post #26
    Scar's Avatar
    September 2010
    4,166 Posts
    Seneca the Younger posted:
    Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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  27. Post #27
    NotAName's Avatar
    April 2010
    1,941 Posts
    Religion exists to make up for people's insecurities and lack of knowledge.
    "How did everything get created?" = the primitive answer to this, before we had ways to study the universe, was religion.
    "Oh god I don't want to stop existing" = afterlife.
    "Life is meaningless" = life is just a test to get to the afterlife.
    Etc etc.
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  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    Helix Alioth's Avatar
    August 2009
    2,566 Posts
    Religion was probably created as the foundation of a civilization, and the one thing a group of neanderthals can agree on is that pain is bad, and religion threatens pain (in some afterlife) for disobeying morals.
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  29. Post #29
    NATURALLY WIRED TO HAVE SEX WITH KIDS
    Rubs10's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,754 Posts
    Nietzsche posted:
    In the ages of crude, primeval culture, man believed that in dreams he got to know another real world; here is the origin of all metaphysics. Without the dream one would have found no occasion for a division of the world. The separation of body and soul, too, is related to the most ancient conception of the dream; also the assumption of a quasi-body of the soul, which is the origin of all belief in spirits, and probably also of the belief in gods. “The dead live on; for they appear to the living in dreams”; this inference went unchallenged for many thousands of years.
    This is probably one of the most likely explanations I've read.
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  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    Maucer's Avatar
    August 2007
    2,314 Posts
    Well when the human got more intelligent, the mental health became more and more important.
    Probably every single ancient group of people have had some kind of religious beliefs. It was evolutionarry a conducive property (did I get it right?) to have them. Religion gives simple answers to hard questions, gives some people reason to live and outcome troubles.
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  31. Post #31
    NATURALLY WIRED TO HAVE SEX WITH KIDS
    Rubs10's Avatar
    June 2007
    8,754 Posts
    Well when the human got more intelligent, the mental health became more and more important.
    Probably every single ancient group of people have had some kind of religious beliefs. It was evolutionarry a conducive property (did I get it right?) to have them. Religion gives simple answers to hard questions, gives some people reason to live and outcome troubles.
    That's a common theory, but another possibility is that people attributed the world to spirits only after they invented them, and neglected to ask hard questions before they could attribute the answer to spirits.

    Which behavior is more common?
    Do people ask why something happens and then try to figure it out?
    Or do people draw conclusions based on what they already think?
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  32. Post #32
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    It was likely a result of an inability to explain the world early on.

    "I don't know why we have night and day, therefore the the sun god did it"
    "I don't know why there are thunderstorms, therefore, it must be Zeus being angry at something"

    As humanity got more educated we replaced this kind of religious nonsense with science, real knowledge that actually works.

    Education, religion's worst enemy, is slowly going to replace the current wave of mythology with reality. It's not going to be overnight, but to quote Stephen Hawking: "science will win because it works".

    You can see they aren't going out without a fight though. Trying to get evolution removed from schools because it conflicts with their favorite myths is one example. The scary thing is that if religion still had as much power today as it did in the past, they would have no problem bringing us back to the dark ages with zero scientific progress.
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  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    I'd probably agree that early on it'd be about explaining the world, but modern religions fall in the brain washing and controlling people category.
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  34. Post #34
    funion is gay
    Zukriuchen's Avatar
    September 2009
    16,719 Posts
    Well, it probably stopped being about "explaining the world" after mankind started creating new technologies. It was more about morals and purposes later on.

    Edited:

    just imagine the first humans, looking at the sky during a storm, they're gonna see these lightnings and think "holy shit what the fuck, that cant be normal, bro"

    I know that I tried to think of many explanations to things I didn't understand as a kid. They must have gone through the same process.
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  35. Post #35
    playdoh
    lifehole's Avatar
    May 2008
    2,970 Posts
    Religion was humanities attempt to understand their place in the universe, the world, and why they, as conscious beings, exist.

    But after a while humanity got twisted inside of its own attempts at understanding the universe and started to enforce rules, laws, and morals based on religion.

    In my opinion religion is just one of the many ways of viewing how humanity, the earth, the universe, and everything came to be. Science is, quite frankly, a more effective way of doing this.

    The way I can see humans existing in the best way is if religious people helped science, to use rational and logical ways of thinking to figure out if there is actually, a "God".
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  36. Post #36
    Why so Sirius?
    SIRIUS's Avatar
    April 2009
    1,779 Posts
    This guy wants a word with you.
    not a religion
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  37. Post #37
    playdoh
    lifehole's Avatar
    May 2008
    2,970 Posts
    not a religion
    Me, coming from a mainly Buddhist family with some Methodist Christians in-between I can confirm Buddhism is indeed, a religion.

    They even chant to the buddha three times a day for an hour every day.
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  38. Post #38
    I wish I had a tentacle hand. Japan would pay billions for some real-life tentacles.
    Bokito's Avatar
    February 2009
    4,471 Posts
    not a religion
    Something can be a religion without following a certain deity.
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  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    Lonestriper's Avatar
    September 2008
    5,613 Posts
    As an excuse to conquer lands, torture and kill people.
    Don't correlate acts committed by genocidal idiots who happen to justify their acts with religion with why it exists in the first place, it's plain wrong.
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  40. Post #40
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,310 Posts
    Don't correlate acts committed by genocidal idiots who happen to justify their acts with religion with why it exists in the first place, it's plain wrong.
    it does appear to be systematic with Christianity, they started killing jews in 1400 AD if I recall and stopped in 1946. Justified in your mind or not, it make sense that a lot of Europe is now secular because they've seen what religion is used to justify.

    The basic idea that those who do not believe in YOUR god are inferior or worth of punishment could justify the acts to not just batshit crazy people, but the indoctrinated masses who follow the organized religion.
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