1. Post #121
    Antdawg's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,887 Posts
    For some reason, I'm getting the implication that native Scandanavians have a lower amount of respect for Muslims (and certain other demographics of immigrants) than Australians, generally speaking.

    Just seems odd because we're a pretty racist bunch (most of you will probably know about Cronulla).

  2. Post #122
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,126 Posts
    A lot of the racism stems from that a lot of immigrants don't want to adapt to Swedish culture, and Swedish people generally don't want to adapt to their culture.
    So a lot of people have a "if you want to live in our house you have to obey our rules" mentality.

  3. Post #123
    Don't mistake racism from dislike of welfare leeching.

  4. Post #124
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,126 Posts
    For some reason, I'm getting the implication that native Scandanavians have a lower amount of respect for Muslims (and certain other demographics of immigrants) than Australians, generally speaking.

    Just seems odd because we're a pretty racist bunch (most of you will probably know about Cronulla).
    We're not all racist for wanting to decrease immigration however, a lot of people from other countries seem to assume this. Personally I would like to decrease immigration, because we don't have enough housing or jobs to go around. Currently there's A LOT of unemployment, so more immigrants mean more competition for employment and more people who will go without jobs. We also have a lot of issues with residencies, especially among young people. So taking in more immigrants and giving them their own apartments and homes is not a good thing when young people will have even more competition for a place to live.

    Basically, I think we need to tend more for our own before we start trying to save the rest of the world.

  5. Post #125
    metromod.net
    _Chewgum's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,216 Posts
    the older immigrants can barely speak swedish and that is a massive issue imo, older swedish people fucking hate immigrants. but I guess the problem is that immigrants don't really adjust and get into the swedish culture/society and it's creating a wall between us. we're not USA.

  6. Post #126
    Gold Member
    Eric95's Avatar
    January 2009
    4,782 Posts
    Many muslims I know of are really embedded in their own culture while living here. The thing is, they often try to change fundamental parts of traditional swedish culture, and a lot of people dislike that. For example, they tried to forbid singing the swedish national anthem at "school ends" (the day when the summer break starts). Another thing that is slightly annoying is how they don't want to celebrate school ends in churches, which is what many schools have done for years.

    Also one time a bunch of muslim kids threw rocks at me and my friends when we were walking through their neighborhood so yeah.

  7. Post #127
    LSD
    LSD's Avatar
    March 2011
    20 Posts
    Saying that Scandinavians in general don't like the idea of people immigrating to their countries is nothing but a massive generalization of every person in Scandinavia. It's as stupid as saying most muslims are terrorists. And the fact that it came from someone as far away as the US and glorious A, just makes it worse.

  8. Post #128
    Gold Member
    Crimor's Avatar
    June 2008
    10,332 Posts
    Saying that Scandinavians in general don't like the idea of people immigrating to their countries is nothing but a massive generalization of every person in Scandinavia. It's as stupid as saying most muslims are terrorists. And the fact that it came from someone as far away as the US and glorious A, just makes it worse.
    I once overheard a woman that thought that muslims could literally explode, voltorb style, hence where my avatar came from

  9. Post #129
    Gold Member
    Cheezy's Avatar
    October 2005
    1,497 Posts
    For example, they tried to forbid singing the swedish national anthem at "school ends" (the day when the summer break starts). Another thing that is slightly annoying is how they don't want to celebrate school ends in churches, which is what many schools have done for years.
    This simply isn't true. The reason many schools have forbidden the anthem/traditional graduations is because somewhen back in the late 90's somebody (if I recall correctly it was a native headmaster.) got the idea that our traditions might be offensive to any non-natives, especially muslims (for reasons unknown). As we all know being offended is worse than being raped so a large number of schools obliged, often going as far as to forbid students from wearing clothing featuring swedish flags or singing the anthem during school hours.

  10. Post #130
    I am a moderator.
    Swebonny's Avatar
    August 2006
    12,870 Posts
    the older immigrants can barely speak swedish and that is a massive issue imo, older swedish people fucking hate immigrants. but I guess the problem is that immigrants don't really adjust and get into the swedish culture/society and it's creating a wall between us. we're not USA.
    I don't know, but older Swedes doesn't seem to "fucking" hate me.

    Edited:

    This simply isn't true. The reason many schools have forbidden the anthem/traditional graduations is because somewhen back in the late 90's somebody (if I recall correctly it was a native headmaster.) got the idea that our traditions might be offensive to any non-natives, especially muslims (for reasons unknown). As we all know being offended is worse than being raped so a large number of schools obliged, often going as far as to forbid students from wearing clothing featuring swedish flags or singing the anthem during school hours.
    Doubt many schools are taking after that specific case.

    I had both "Julspel" and graduation in churches. We had to pray "Fader Vår" every morning since 1 st grade. We rose the Swedish flag in the church and sang the anthem together with other "patriotic" songs. It was quite awesome to be honest.

    But does that reflect all the Swedish school?

    Edited:

    This thread is getting a bit to prejudicial, reading trough the post without linking it to Sweden/Scandinavia makes it sound like you are talking about some 1984 like country where immigrants are getting everything for free while the "whites" have to work for everything else.

    Edited:

    Currently there's A LOT of unemployment, so more immigrants mean more competition for employment and more people who will go without jobs.
    That's also something I've been wondering about. I'm a student at KTH, doing my first year, which means that I have no skills to perform any complex work. But yet I've been practically showered with job opportunities.

    Most recently I together with 2 friends helped a company called Jung Von Matt gather information for an ad campaign. You can now see our work at T-centralen's new digial ad screens. After finishing the first project I got offered to continue, which I declined.

    I then had the opportunity to do some sales work, being a extra teacher, a guide and most recently I've been thinking of applying to the support personnel position at Mojang (which would be quite a nice place to work at). I'm actually not really in need of a job, since my studies take up a lot of time. I bet I'd be able to find many if I actually searched.

    I get the feeling that the unemployment rate has something to do with laziness and lack of education of the general population. Because, Norway and Denmark I believe bring in almost the same amount of immigrants as Sweden does. Yet their unemployment rates are at 4%, while Sweden is at 8%. Then we have Finland, which I don't think has a history of bringing in immigrants which amazingly has an unemployment rate as high as Sweden. An unemployment rate of 8% isn't actually that bad, then of course it could be lower.

    It seems to me that you believe immigrants are able to jump on and get a job immediately after getting off the boat. I mean you aren't blaming the immigrants, for the "lack" of jobs, are you?

    Edited:

    I'm not saying that immigration shouldn't be limited to some degrees, but I just want to be clear with all the numbers, information, causes and problems that some of you are theorizing about. Right now it's all about personal experiences.
    There's so much behind the problems than simply pointing at a group of 1 million people.

  11. Post #131
    black_tech's Avatar
    May 2007
    333 Posts
    I remember christianity being a huge thing in school as well, not so much now.

    I know that Norway hasn't abolished the state church, but has other Scandinavian countries done this?
    I mean, everyone has the right to have their own religion, but you should not put religion and politics together.
    The state (I'm not totally sure about this, correct me if I'm wrong) are building mosques, though it's a good cause, this, combined with having a state religion, will fuel the "hate" against Muslims in Scandinavian countries, should we also build religious buildings for other religions as well, then?

    This is a very socialist thing to do, and I think they should really stop giving the majority a right to something and give everyone the liberty they deserve by stop caring about religion, abolish the state church, and have a better integration system.

  12. Post #132
    Gold Member
    Ond kaja's Avatar
    December 2009
    2,954 Posts
    I remember christianity being a huge thing in school as well, not so much now.

    I know that Norway hasn't abolished the state church, but has other Scandinavian countries done this?
    I mean, everyone has the right to have their own religion, but you should not put religion and politics together.
    The state (I'm not totally sure about this, correct me if I'm wrong) are building mosques, though it's a good cause, this, combined with having a state religion, will fuel the "hate" against Muslims in Scandinavian countries, should we also build religious buildings for other religions as well, then?

    This is a very socialist thing to do, and I think they should really stop giving the majority a right to something and give everyone the liberty they deserve by stop caring about religion, abolish the state church, and have a better integration system.
    Sweden is the only country in Scandinavia that has abolished the state church. Anti-immigration parties also seem to get more votes in Denmark (Danish People's Party, 12.3%), Norway (Progress Party, 22.9%) and Finland (True Finns, 19.1%) than in Sweden (Sweden Democrats, 5.70%). Interesting correlation, to be honest.

  13. Post #133
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,126 Posts
    I get the feeling that the unemployment rate has something to do with laziness and lack of education of the general population. Because, Norway and Denmark I believe bring in almost the same amount of immigrants as Sweden does. Yet their unemployment rates are at 4%, while Sweden is at 8%. Then we have Finland, which I don't think has a history of bringing in immigrants which amazingly has an unemployment rate as high as Sweden. An unemployment rate of 8% isn't actually that bad, then of course it could be lower.

    It seems to me that you believe immigrants are able to jump on and get a job immediately after getting off the boat. I mean you aren't blaming the immigrants, for the "lack" of jobs, are you?

    Edited:

    I'm not saying that immigration shouldn't be limited to some degrees, but I just want to be clear with all the numbers, information, causes and problems that some of you are theorizing about. Right now it's all about personal experiences.
    There's so much behind the problems than simply pointing at a group of 1 million people.
    Perhaps work is better in your area, but around here it's scarce. As a person with a general education rather than a specific occupation based education I'm qualified for a lot of general jobs but a lot of those jobs requiring a specific education are still unavailable. So the general jobs not requiring a specific type of education are the jobs people without a occupation specific education have to compete over.

    Now I'm not saying that immigrants get some form of "get a job free card", just that they usually receive a basic education and end up chasing the same kind of jobs people in general will search for with basic educations, or when they can't find an employment for their occupation based education. It's not all the immigrants fault, but it does add fuel to the fire. Not everyone also knows right away after graduation what they want to continue studying, so they have to search for work during the time they figure this out.

    Though I find the residential issue to be a bigger problem than them being competition for jobs really.

    Edited:

    Another thing that is slightly annoying is how they don't want to celebrate school ends in churches, which is what many schools have done for years.
    As an atheist, I'm completely fine with this. Churches give me the creeps
    I don't like how it's illegal to try to influence children politically bit legal to influence them religiously.

  14. Post #134
    MisterSponge's Avatar
    December 2010
    104 Posts
    Here in Finland one of the problems is that many immigrants have no idea how to speak English or Finnish, and have no intention to learn either. Many people running a company take this as a huge disadvantage, so these immigrants can only get jobs as cleaners etc. The pay is still pretty good, even as a cleaner though, so I guess sometimes people just feel lazy and get money from the social security.

  15. Post #135
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,605 Posts
    Here in Finland one of the problems is that many immigrants have no idea how to speak English or Finnish, and have no intention to learn either.
    Do you have anything to substantiate this beyond your own opinion?

  16. Post #136
    MyBigBoner.com
    fritzel's Avatar
    March 2009
    4,412 Posts
    The problem normally occurs when the immigrants are from homogenous population with same religion, culture and race.

  17. Post #137
    Fabulous Vailglorous Extraordinaire
    Haxxer's Avatar
    February 2007
    10,705 Posts
    We're a multicultural society, I think we should be able to adapt to their customs as much as them to us.

    Also I'd also like to bring up the issue with Hijabs and how people look at them. We (not all, but some) say it's a way to oppress women and I mighty disagree. If anything, it's we who oppress those who choose to wear it, Scandinavian or not. Isn't it oppression from our side when a woman with Hijab has a way less chance to get a job, than one without?

  18. Post #138
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,126 Posts
    We're a multicultural society, I think we should be able to adapt to their customs as much as them to us.
    A lot of people don't want the Swedish culture to be ignored though, they enjoy our traditions and values and therefor don't like the idea of ignoring them because some people might take offense. Personally I'm not one of them though, I couldn't give less of a rats ass about our culture.

    Also I'd also like to bring up bring up the issue with Hijabs and how people look at them. We (not all, but some) say it's a way to oppress women and I mighty disagree. If anything, it's we who oppress those who choose to wear it, Scandinavian or not. Isn't it oppression from our side when a woman with Hijab has a way less chance to get a job, than one without?
    Well no matter how you look at it, it might not always be good for business to flaunt your religion or to wear head attire when serving customers or while in doors. I'd expect this to be especially true regarding elderly care, considering all the people raised with old standards or with dementia might be prejudiced or paranoid.

  19. Post #139
    I am a moderator.
    Swebonny's Avatar
    August 2006
    12,870 Posts
    We're a multicultural society, I think we should be able to adapt to their customs as much as them to us.

    Also I'd also like to bring up the issue with Hijabs and how people look at them. We (not all, but some) say it's a way to oppress women and I mighty disagree. If anything, it's we who oppress those who choose to wear it, Scandinavian or not. Isn't it oppression from our side when a woman with Hijab has a way less chance to get a job, than one without?
    I don't have anything against other cultures and tradition, but living here in Sweden, I'm expecting it to be Swedish. If you came to the place I lived in you'd probably think it's in some well-developed middle eastern country.
    They even want to send out prayers trough the speakers from their Mosques where I live. Those are the kind of things I find are stepping a bit on the line between the whole integration/assimilation matter.

  20. Post #140
    Kagrs's Avatar
    June 2008
    1,352 Posts
    I don't have anything against other cultures and tradition, but living here in Sweden, I'm expecting it to be Swedish. If you came to the place I lived in you'd probably think it's in some well-developed middle eastern country.
    They even want to send out prayers trough the speakers from their Mosques where I live. Those are the kind of things I find are stepping a bit on the line between the whole integration/assimilation matter.
    Then again, isn't ringing the church bells a bit like that too? I know you want to keep it Swedish and I too want to keep my culture Danish but I just think it's a little interesting.

    Oh man, speaking of which we had a case here in Denmark after France banned niqabs. Some of our political parties were hell bent on doing the same in Denmark... Until, after doing a count, the only found three women in all of Denmark who regularly use it.

    I response to Haxxer I think it's rather understandable that women who wear a hijab will have less chance of getting a job. For one thing there's a lot of places with a specific dress code, for example in many stores you are not allowed to wear necklaces with religious symbols clearly showing and other similar ways that will show what religion you identify with.
    Another point is that anyone wearing something that covers part of their face - Hats, sunglasses, even a beard will have a more difficult time seeking certain jobs. I'm not sure if it's culture or instinct or both, but I know many people are uncomfortable if they can't see the entire person's head and face.

  21. Post #141
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,126 Posts
    I'm not sure if it's culture or instinct or both, but I know many people are uncomfortable if they can't see the entire person's head and face.
    This is especially true for people with dementia.

  22. Post #142
    I am a moderator.
    Swebonny's Avatar
    August 2006
    12,870 Posts
    Then again, isn't ringing the church bells a bit like that too? I know you want to keep it Swedish and I too want to keep my culture Danish but I just think it's a little interesting.
    That's true. I guess it's just because I'm used to church bells. May also be because I don't find singing in a foreign language in the morning to be pleasing, if they had clocks I wouldn't mind at all. We got a church a few hundred meters from our house, but I've not heard any bells.
    I mean, if the prayers can be heard within the range of the mosque then I wouldn't mind either, but all the stories I've heard is that they will blast the prayers to the whole area

    But yeah you made an interesting point.

  23. Post #143
    Gold Member
    trotskygrad's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,488 Posts
    That's true. I guess it's just because I'm used to church bells. May also be because I don't find singing in a foreign language in the morning to be pleasing, if they had clocks I wouldn't mind at all. We got a church a few hundred meters from our house, but I've not heard any bells.
    I mean, if the prayers can be heard within the range of the mosque then I wouldn't mind either, but all the stories I've heard is that they will blast the prayers to the whole area

    But yeah you made an interesting point.
    that's true, the minarets are a lot more "distracting" than church bells.

    If we wanted true equality we would restrict both, but to be honest when it comes to large-scale sound producing devices, I say the power to decide what should be allowed should be decided through means of a referendum

  24. Post #144

    February 2012
    103 Posts
    Guess what?

  25. Post #145
    Gold Member
    trotskygrad's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,488 Posts
    Guess what?
    what is your point?

  26. Post #146
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2009
    17,111 Posts
    Personally I feel that it's not muslims or immigrants that are the problem, but perhaps how we deal with them. It's very difficult cause you don't want to take away their culture but at the same time you want them to be able to fit in with the citizens.

  27. Post #147
    Tampio's Avatar
    May 2007
    722 Posts
    I'm Finnish, but that's irrelevant.

    I don't have at least big problems with or against immigrates, but my views of immigration surely aren't helped by some acting like total dicks towards us ethnic Finns.

  28. Post #148
    Gold Member
    trotskygrad's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,488 Posts
    I'm Finnish, but that's irrelevant.

    I don't have at least big problems with or against immigrates, but my views of immigration surely aren't helped by some acting like total dicks towards us ethnic Finns.
    are you talking about the muslims or the russians?