1. Post #121
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    Either way you haven't read my other posts in this thread and is just targeting that specific one if you think I'm talking about all feminists, so I'm going to just ignore the rest of your post for now since I don't feel like reading your posts if you won't read mine.
    Eh, that's certainly not the message they send out. From having spent 3 years as a male minority of a class with 20 girls, 3 guys, and plenty of feminist teachers, it's a mere wonder that I managed to retain my view that women deserves more equal treatment. If what you're saying is true, they certainly not doing a very good job with education and the media to spread the message that they're not just focusing on women.
    you're simply bailing out because i'm questioning you.
    if you aren't talking about all feminists, then why the objections to reading about feminism?

    Edited:

    Really though, you're ALWAYS insanely aggressive every time I see you argue something. Not just in this thread, but in other debate threads, and in the sensationalist headlines section. I generally don't like reading your posts due to how it feels like hanging out with the gestapo.
    How about you respond to what i say instead of whining.

  2. Post #122
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    Yes, herr Flick

    I don't like reading feminist literature, because everything feminism inspired I have read in my life has felt non-relatable and at times offensive.
    If you're talking about their whole organization agenda and things, I don't feel like reading those right now because it's irrelevant to the point I was making.

  3. Post #123
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    I don't like reading feminist literature, because everything feminism inspired I have read in my life has felt non-relatable and at times offensive.
    If you're talking about their whole organization agenda and things, I don't feel like reading those right now because it's irrelevant to the point I was making.
    what have you read that was "feminist inspired"?
    and there is no feminist organization or agenda.
    just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay.

    my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about.

    it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't necessarily mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't necessarily mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.

  4. Post #124
    Impact1986's Avatar
    December 2011
    1,691 Posts
    I think it is time to abolish feminists and praise humanists, which really seek equality between all people. Feminists generally tend to only want the fun stuff of being the stronger gender. They want the same money (which they already earn), and push their agenda further by complaining that there are too few women in the tech industry. Well, everybody can be what he/she wants if he/she is good enough.

    But where are the females who clean up the sewers? Or check the chimneys? I still have to see one female construction worker. Where is the equality in that?

    Hypocrites. You haven't earned the apples, if you didn't grow the tree.

    Edited:

    what have you read that was "feminist inspired"?
    and there is no feminist organization or agenda.
    just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay.

    my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about.

    it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't necessarily mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't necessarily mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.
    He is dismissing it because the feminists themselves have the wrong definition of feminism. And act accordingly.

  5. Post #125
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    actually women earn about 3/4th of what men earn for the same work.
    and that doesn't change the issue with sexual assault or how the media portrays women.

    i'm sure plenty of female works clean sewers or check chimneys but you don't see them because that wouldn't suit your obvious confirmation bias.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

  6. Post #126
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    what have you read that was "feminist inspired"?
    Nothing worth remembering apparently
    and there is no feminist organization or agenda.
    Eh, guess I just get a bit confused what with it being treated like a political stance
    just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay.
    Porn is awesome. What are their opinions on gay porn? Is gay porn alright, or is that discriminative towards women? Is it perhaps discriminative towards men? Is it not discriminative towards men, but lesbian porn is? Is lesbian porn alright? Lol, porn is such a fun subject. I love porn.

    my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about.
    My point is simply, if feminists want equality for women and men alike, they are doing a really fucking terrible job telling the world that they aren't just focusing on making women equal with benefits.

    it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.
    Politics make me sad. Organizations doing bad things in the name of good intentions.

    Edited:

    i'm sure plenty of female works clean sewers or check chimneys but you don't see them because that wouldn't suit your obvious confirmation bias.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
    Now you're just throwing around accusations.

  7. Post #127
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    My point is simply, if feminists want equality for women and men alike, they are doing a really fucking terrible job telling the world that they aren't just focusing on making women equal with benefits
    the world's not gonna listen because the world does the exact same thing you did here, dismiss it and accept only your own stance on it as fact.

    i mean you utterly fail to see my point once again because:
    Porn is awesome. What are their opinions on gay porn?
    didn't i just fucking say that feminism isn't an ideology or agenda? if you wanna know people's opinions on gay porn why don't you go read and find out.

  8. Post #128
    RAPISTS ARE OPPRESSED
    mobrockers2's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,403 Posts
    actually women earn about 3/4th of what men earn for the same work.
    and that doesn't change the issue with sexual assault or how the media portrays women.

    i'm sure plenty of female works clean sewers or check chimneys but you don't see them because that wouldn't suit your obvious confirmation bias.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
    Actually, women earn about 98% of what men earn for the same work with the same function, education and experience.

  9. Post #129
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    the world's not gonna listen because the world does the exact same thing you did here, dismiss it and accept only your own stance on it as fact.

    i mean you utterly fail to see my point once again because:


    didn't i just fucking say that feminism isn't an ideology or agenda? if you wanna know people's opinions on gay porn why don't you go read and find out.
    You didn't make your point clear. When I get confused, I interpret and discuss what I feel like.

  10. Post #130
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    Actually, women earn about 98% of what men earn for the same work with the same function.
    forgive me for being ethnocentric.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2..._United_States

    and it's far worse outside of the west of course.

  11. Post #131
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2006
    6,660 Posts
    I'd rather read the whole Twilight series.
    well if you're unwilling to actually take a few moments to learn about what you're talking about then you shouldn't be in here arguing

    go be willfully ignorant somewhere else

  12. Post #132
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    You didn't make your point clear. When I get confused, I interpret and discuss what I feel like.
    i'll hold your hand through it next time.

  13. Post #133
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    well if you're unwilling to actually take a few moments to learn about what you're talking about then you shouldn't be in here arguing

    go be willfully ignorant somewhere else
    Mjeh, how about you and your gestapo friend go persecute some jews or something.

  14. Post #134
    RAPISTS ARE OPPRESSED
    mobrockers2's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,403 Posts
    forgive me for being ethnocentric.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2..._United_States

    and it's far worse outside of the west of course.
    The statistic does not take into account differences in experience, skill, occupation, education or hours worked, as long as it qualifies as full-time work
    I'm not saying that ^ difference doesn't come from a difference in how women are treated and brought up, but please read your own sources. And yes, I have read the line after that one.

  15. Post #135
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    Eh, how about you and your gestapo friend go persecute some jews or something.
    easy for me i can just persecute myself.

    Edited:

    I'm not saying that ^ difference doesn't come from a difference in how women are treated and brought up, but please read your own sources. And yes, I have read the line after that one.
    well uh
    that's a pretty important line.

    i mean it doesn't diminish anything i said.

  16. Post #136
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    easy for me i can just persecute myself.
    I would not put it above you.

  17. Post #137
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    I would not put it above you.
    please PM me your dumb insults instead of cluttering up the thread with them.
    i got it, gestapo, you don't have to say it over and over again.

  18. Post #138
    RAPISTS ARE OPPRESSED
    mobrockers2's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,403 Posts
    easy for me i can just persecute myself.

    Edited:



    well uh
    that's a pretty important line.

    i mean it doesn't diminish anything i said.
    All it says it that some part can't be explained, meaning that a far larger part CAN be, meaning that my 98% is a more likely percentage than your 75%.

  19. Post #139
    Impact1986's Avatar
    December 2011
    1,691 Posts
    actually women earn about 3/4th of what men earn for the same work.
    and that doesn't change the issue with sexual assault or how the media portrays women.

    i'm sure plenty of female works clean sewers or check chimneys but you don't see them because that wouldn't suit your obvious confirmation bias.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
    Can you give me a percentage of how many women work as sewer cleaner?
    What about the garbage men? Have you ever seen a garbage woman? Why dont feminists complain because that job is sexist and that it needs more women?

    Besides, you are missing the point.
    http://it-jobs.fins.com/Articles/SB1...-Tech-Industry
    Feminists want more women in male dominated industries. But what if more women just dont want to work there?

  20. Post #140
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    All it says it that some part can't be explained, meaning that a far larger part CAN be, meaning that my 98% is a more likely percentage than your 75%.
    that's a complete stretch.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
    that article goes into more detail.

  21. Post #141
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    please PM me your dumb insults instead of cluttering up the thread with them.
    i got it, gestapo, you don't have to say it over and over again.
    You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.

  22. Post #142
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    Can you give me a percentage of how many women work as sewer cleaner?
    What about the garbage men? Have you ever seen a garbage woman? Why dont feminists complain because that job is sexist and that it needs more women?
    i don't know? i think that's something you should take up with the person complaining.

    Feminists want more women in male dominated industries.
    feminists don't really want the same thing.

    Edited:

    You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.
    this thread isn't about my tendencies.

  23. Post #143
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    this thread isn't about my tendencies.
    It is when I'm forced to interact with them.

  24. Post #144
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    It is when I'm forced to interact with them.
    yeah sorry for forcing you to post, my mistake.

  25. Post #145
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2006
    6,660 Posts
    You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.
    it's the socratic method dogg. why should i insert new arguments when a. the internet has the answer to any question ever for anyone willing to look it up and b. ~the truth has been in ur heart all along~

  26. Post #146
    RAPISTS ARE OPPRESSED
    mobrockers2's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,403 Posts
    that's a complete stretch.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
    that article goes into more detail.
    All it does is show me that there is simply not enough research, or rather no research done right to determine the actual percentage. As in one country they determine it per yearly salary from "full-time" working people while full-time might not actually be full-time. And in another country per hourly salary, but taking the whole industry into account instead of per-sector. I still feel my percentage is closer to the truth (because of maternity leave, women choosing jobs in less-paying sectors etc) than yours is.

  27. Post #147
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    it's the socratic method dogg. why should i insert new arguments when a. the internet has the answer to any question ever for anyone willing to look it up and b. ~the truth has been in ur heart all along~
    I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned.

    Edited:

    yeah sorry for forcing you to post, my mistake.
    Apology accepted, you're only human

  28. Post #148
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    I still feel my percentage is closer to the truth (because of maternity leave, women choosing jobs in less-paying sectors etc) than yours is.
    maybe it's because i'm a pessimist and you're an optimist, hah

  29. Post #149
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2006
    6,660 Posts
    I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned.
    yeah but why? :smug:

  30. Post #150
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    yeah but why? :smug:
    Because why not?

  31. Post #151
    RAPISTS ARE OPPRESSED
    mobrockers2's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,403 Posts
    maybe it's because i'm a pessimist and you're an optimist, hah
    At the end it doesn't matter as women's career and educational choices (which have an effect on how much they make) are most probably heavily influenced by how society sees them. Which is the difference between mine and your percentage. (I think)
    I just feel like it comes more from an indirect discrimination which results in women choosing jobs that in comparison pay less than the jobs men are supposed to choose, than that it comes from direct discrimination.

  32. Post #152
    Stradbong's Avatar
    August 2011
    91 Posts
    ITT: White middle-class males thinking their opinions on feminism is far more important then them women.

    Also: All relationships must be organized around gender roles called "rocks and pussies" because hurr huh durr biotruths.

  33. Post #153
    Gold Member
    DuncanFrost's Avatar
    August 2007
    13,888 Posts
    I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned.
    "i'm not going to bother to learn about what i'm ham-handedly discussing, instead i will rely on others and then tell them that they are wrong when they give me the facts"

  34. Post #154
    Gold Member
    Upgrade123's Avatar
    January 2008
    5,478 Posts
    I'm about as feminine as my girlfriend, if not more, and we have absolutely no problems. Come at me bro.

  35. Post #155
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    "i'm not going to bother to learn about what i'm ham-handedly discussing, instead i will rely on others and then tell them that they are wrong when they give me the facts"
    "I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated".

    Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.

  36. Post #156
    Flyingman356's Avatar
    June 2008
    5,287 Posts
    Whoever gets to the door first holds it open. This is how I always do it with my friends, male or female.

  37. Post #157
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    Whoever gets to the door first holds it open. This is how I always do it with my friends, male or female.
    Indeed, that's just good manners.

  38. Post #158
    LCBADs's Avatar
    March 2009
    1,775 Posts
    "I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated".

    Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.
    No you didn't.

    I don't think I was misreading what they were saying. It's always "women are the victims, men are the culprits", "men have the advantage over women and are physically stronger, but women are more able and therefor stronger than men", "men do not have as much feelings as women and are a lot more insensitive", "men are obsessed with sex while girls like love", "domestic abuse from a man is a lot worse than from a woman because men are physically stronger". That's what people think feminism is about, and that's the message feminism in media sends out. It might not be the true purpose of it all, but it's the message people receive and that some people actually believe in.


    People need to get over the idea that only a few people act this way. Good rational feminists working for actual equality and understanding the real message of feminism is fucking RARE. I have not come across many what so ever, it's not the kind of thing they debate about in the newspapers or the things they press on in politics. Feminism is a confused caricature of what it might once have been.
    You were not arguing that they have bad PR, and that resulted in what you now know was a false impression. You were arguing that feminists really were what the media taught you they were. If you're going to abandon what you said, at least acknowledge it.

  39. Post #159
    Gold Member
    Simski's Avatar
    February 2007
    13,292 Posts
    No you didn't.



    You were not arguing that they have bad PR, and that resulted in what you now know was a false impression. You were arguing that feminists really were what the media taught you they were. If you're going to abandon what you said, at least acknowledge it.
    I were arguing that they have bad PR and that they're doing doing a good job presenting themselves as anything different from what the media portrays them as.
    The below highlighted message is no less true because of the above statement, they are in no way contradictions. I'm saying that right now, the wackjobs far outnumber the sane people, or at least are better at making their voice heard.

  40. Post #160
    Gold Member
    DuncanFrost's Avatar
    August 2007
    13,888 Posts
    "I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated".
    Like six different people have already explained in great detail how wrong you are but since you're ignoring them I figured a more direct approach might work.

    Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.
    How can anybody be this thick? How do you think you learn about what feminist 'actions' are? Through the same media that is presenting them in a negative light.