1. Post #521
    Gold Member
    Patriarch's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,507 Posts
    Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff.
    WOAH GUYS
    THIS DUDE IS SERIOUS
    WE BETTER BACK OFF
    (Since when did we need those to aruge on whether we're too hard on religion?)
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  2. Post #522
    Sickle's Avatar
    November 2009
    6,600 Posts
    Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff.
    Sure.
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  3. Post #523
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff.
    Thanks for contributing that wonderful chunk of ad hominem to the thread.
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  4. Post #524
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,459 Posts
    So, you should bring all that science, philosophy, theology and shit together. Then you might get a pretty good picture what other "God's" there could be dwelling in the universe..
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  5. Post #525
    Sickle's Avatar
    November 2009
    6,600 Posts
    Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff.
    Because you need a degree to argue this stuff, eh?

    Do you have one?
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  6. Post #526
    DANCE YOU FOOLS
    LiquidNazgul's Avatar
    November 2007
    1,672 Posts
    Wrong. Hitler used Christianity to appeal to the masses to rise to power. It got him a lot of votes.
    All right, let's take a step back here for a second.
    I had originally responded to the picture of Nazis, which could mean anything: the poster thinking Nazis were religiously motivated to start and fight World War II, or initiate the Holocaust, or be a major pillar to their rise to power. I decided to interpret it as the first two.
    You're going to have to explain to me how the Nazis (who basically replaced the Bible with Mein Kampf) and their atrocities and them starting WWII in Europe was majorly connected to religion.
    To which was replied:
    I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work.

    - Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936
    This is not sufficient evidence to prove that the Holocaust, the initiation of World War II, and the persecution of minorities were majorly connected to religion. Almost everything done points to political, ideological, and racial lines.

    For example, Hitler did not refuse surrender from the city of Leningrad because "those damn Russian Eastern Orthodox heathens will suffer God's wrath!" No, it's because he didn't want a single block of it standing, because the Slavic race was seen as sub-human. Thus the city was besieged for well over 900 days in arguably the most destructive and bloody siege in human history.

    I replied:

    Much of what Hitler's cronies did was fueled by bigotry and hatred based off of a warped ideology of racial superiority. The Holocaust was not religiously motivated. The ignition of WWII in Europe was not religiously motivated. Hitler and the Nazis did not rise to power by appealing to the religious.
    And you responded:

    Wrong. Hitler used Christianity to appeal to the masses to rise to power. It got him a lot of votes.
    Unless you can find the vote counts for the elections at that time, I honestly have a hard time believing this. The Nazis did not parade around going on about heathens and the unfaithful. No, they paraded around going on about German supremacy, x minority group is a plague on society, etc. I'm sure they appealed more than once to the religious by saying how Judaism was an evil cult, but everything else was based on racial and idealogical lines.

    But the whole point I was trying to make is that the Nazis did not initiate the Holocaust or WWII in Europe based on religious motives. If you can prove that a lot of his votes came from the religious, then please do, because truth be told I am not very well informed on Hitler's initial rise to power beyond a few books.
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  7. Post #527
    SenseMake's Avatar
    February 2010
    42 Posts
    I don't know I guess, I feel like it's always a constant battle where there's no real winner. I feel that religion shouldn't be forced on people, but I'm completely okay with it. I'm a Roman Catholic with no issues with others but I try to follow the set rules and guidelines. But, I used to have a friend who took his atheism way too far. To the point where he told his girlfriend that he wouldn't go to her church to see her get confirmed(?) because he wanted nothing to do with any sort of church. I always saw atheism as a choice not to follow a religion, but to also tolerate others' religions. I see no fault in going, hell, I've gone to synagogues(correct me if I spelled that wrong) to see my jewish friends bar/batmitsvah services. I thought it was interesting. But, we all reserve right to our own honest opinions.
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  8. Post #528
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    Nobody here has either a high enough understanding in philosophy, science, or theology to argue this stuff. Not that it would matter anyways.
    It's amazing because everybody missed the fucking point of this thread.

    Which is to not fucking argue about the existence or non-existence of gods.
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  9. Post #529
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    It's amazing because everybody missed the fucking point of this thread.

    Which is to not fucking argue about the existence or non-existence of gods.
    Nowhere in the OP does it say that

    Also I think the existence of god is pretty important in regards to the validity of religious belief and whether or not we are too hard on people believing things that are demonstrably false.
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  10. Post #530
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    Nowhere in the OP does it say that

    Also I think the existence of god is pretty important in regards to the validity of religious belief and whether or not we are too hard on people believing things that are demonstrably false.
    You're a fucking moron if you think you can "disprove" religion. There are a few things that are "demonstrably false", but there aren't all that many when you consider that there's more to religion than those specific things. Just try to "demonstrate" that pantheism is false. Or Buddhism. Or even fucking Christianity.

    Yes, I get to use Russel's Teapot on the theistic side of the argument.
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  11. Post #531
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    So because you are "right", you can say what you like about people who are "wrong"?
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  12. Post #532
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,459 Posts
    Nowhere in the OP does it say that

    Also I think the existence of god is pretty important in regards to the validity of religious belief and whether or not we are too hard on people believing things that are demonstrably false.
    Or MAYBE the belief in God doesn't even have any importance if you don't really feel the need for hope, unlike some unfortunate people around the world who lack everything that we modernized people have.
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  13. Post #533
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    Or MAYBE the belief in God doesn't even have any importance if you don't really feel the need for hope, unlike some unfortunate people around the world who lack everything that we modernized people have.
    Way to go, you just insulted the vast majority of the world's population for no reason!
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  14. Post #534
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,459 Posts
    Way to go, you just insulted the vast majority of the world's population for no reason!
    Oh, like the middle-high class wealthy conservative American families eating well every day, going to great jobs, and thanking God for all the things that they do? When at the same time God is the only remaining source of hope/joy for some unfortunate people. So who's insulting who now?

    ANd even if you are a wealthy, healthy and an upstanding human citizen (who wouldn't have much use for hope et cet.), I wouldn't judge or insult if you chose to pray and meditate every week for shits and giggles.
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  15. Post #535
    Shiftyze's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,873 Posts
    No we aren't because they are hard on us.

    Seriously, you think we are hard on religion? If we don't worship religion they think we should be dead, killed, raped, put in prison(Which is ironic as 1% of the prison is atheist) and I would never want that from someone, I just want people to stop being close minded idiots and actually free think for once.

    I think religion helps bad people be good, but at the same time, I hate what it does to people.
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  16. Post #536
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    No we aren't because they are hard on us.

    Seriously, you think we are hard on religion? If we don't worship religion they think we should be dead, killed, raped, put in prison(Which is ironic as 1% of the prison is atheist) and I would never want that from someone, I just want people to stop being close minded idiots and actually free think for once.

    I think religion helps bad people be good, but at the same time, I hate what it does to people.
    Way to generalize all religion into one giant lump of hate.

    Edited:

    Oh, like the middle-high class wealthy conservative American families eating well every day, going to great jobs, and thanking God for all the things that they do? When at the same time God is the only remaining source of hope/joy for some unfortunate people. So who's insulting who now?

    ANd even if you are a wealthy, healthy and an upstanding human citizen (who wouldn't have much use for hope et cet.), I wouldn't judge or insult if you chose to pray and meditate every week for shits and giggles.
    Alright, what the fuck are you going on about?
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  17. Post #537
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,459 Posts
    Alright, what the fuck are you going on about?
    It says in my post so dunno how else to respond to that question.
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  18. Post #538
    Lethaxx's Avatar
    April 2011
    645 Posts
    We are not hard enough. Religion is one of the main causes of war. I dont think the human race can "evolve" without abolishing it. By evolve i mean to advance socially and scientifically
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  19. Post #539
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    We are not hard enough. Religion is one of the main causes of war. I dont think the human race can "evolve" without abolishing it. By evolve i mean to advance socially and scientifically
    Religion doesn't cause wars. It gives an excuse for them. Same as literally anything else.
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  20. Post #540
    Shiftyze's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,873 Posts
    Way to generalize all religion into one giant lump of hate.
    Okay. Tell me. How many times have you seen an Atheist say "Fuck all religions they should all die or get killed".

    Almost all wars are based on religion and you seriously think I'm generalizing? Ha how many atheists have you seen tell a religious person to go die? Compared to religion goers? Tell me sir? Since I'm generalizing factual proof of religionm, the main cause of war.

    Edited:

    Religion doesn't cause wars. It gives an excuse for them. Same as literally anything else.
    Religion doesn't cause wars?? Are you fucking serious kid? Get out now, and learn history. Learn all about history, religion is the number 1 reason of war. Haha wow.
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  21. Post #541
    Lethaxx's Avatar
    April 2011
    645 Posts
    Religion doesn't cause wars. It gives an excuse for them. Same as literally anything else.
    your point is as subjective as mine. Your opinion is that people start a war then blame it on religion. I am not disagreeing im just saying without religion there would be less war as they cant use it as an excuse and they cannot act in support of it. Bin Laden said he kills in the name of Allah, a religious god.
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  22. Post #542
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,459 Posts
    Dude, it's not just religion that causes wars.. It's complicated. It's people who fight, and it's people who use heaven and hell and other stuff as devices to incite people to fight a war. It's crazy.


    I mean, our whole fucking history has been VERY violent: A lot of people must have asked "OH WHY?!" when something incredibly fucked up happened to them in the dark ages of history.

    And that's also where religious Jesus/Hippie all-loving anti-war preaching comes in, but we all know how well received that was back in the days..
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  23. Post #543
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    Okay. Tell me. How many times have you seen an Atheist say "Fuck all religions they should all die or get killed".

    Almost all wars are based on religion and you seriously think I'm generalizing? Ha how many atheists have you seen tell a religious person to go die? Compared to religion goers? Tell me sir? Since I'm generalizing factual proof of religionm, the main cause of war.

    Edited:

    Religion doesn't cause wars?? Are you fucking serious kid? Get out now, and learn history. Learn all about history, religion is the number 1 reason of war. Haha wow.
    You appear to never have heard of nationalism, racism, greed, or royal blood-feuds...

    By the way I've heard a lot more hate coming from atheists toward religious people than the other way around. I know it's completely dependant on where you come from, so I don't go around spouting generalisations about it.
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  24. Post #544
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    Okay. Tell me. How many times have you seen an Atheist say "Fuck all religions they should all die or get killed".

    Almost all wars are based on religion and you seriously think I'm generalizing? Ha how many atheists have you seen tell a religious person to go die? Compared to religion goers? Tell me sir? Since I'm generalizing factual proof of religionm, the main cause of war.

    Edited:

    Religion doesn't cause wars?? Are you fucking serious kid? Get out now, and learn history. Learn all about history, religion is the number 1 reason of war. Haha wow.
    Anti-theism. For fuck's sake, you're doing it right now.

    How about you learn about basic fucking human nature? It's the organization of religion that people abuse, not the fucking religion itself.

    Edited:

    your point is as subjective as mine. Your opinion is that people start a war then blame it on religion. I am not disagreeing im just saying without religion there would be less war as they cant use it as an excuse and they cannot act in support of it. Bin Laden said he kills in the name of Allah, a religious god.
    Oh no, ONE example, surely my argument is defeated!

    Bin Laden was an asshole, and he always was going to be an asshole, regardless of religion.
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  25. Post #545
    Lethaxx's Avatar
    April 2011
    645 Posts
    Anti-theism. For fuck's sake, you're doing it right now.

    How about you learn about basic fucking human nature? It's the organization of religion that people abuse, not the fucking religion itself.
    Thats a very valid point, abuse of the organisation of religion, but is that not a reason for abolishing it to prevent this abuse? because it will always be abused as people blindly follow it.



    Oh no, ONE example, surely my argument is defeated!

    Bin Laden was an asshole, and he always was going to be an asshole, regardless of religion.
    But religion is the reason why he did what he did. He didnt do it for any other reason.
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  26. Post #546
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,459 Posts
    -fuck this
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  27. Post #547
    Shiftyze's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,873 Posts
    Anti-theism. For fuck's sake, you're doing it right now.

    How about you learn about basic fucking human nature? It's the organization of religion that people abuse, not the fucking religion itself.
    Ah, you're right. Not the religion its self. So the bible says I must throw rocks at slaves and punish women who speak in church. I must follow the religion right? Still sounds fucked up to me, want me to remind you of some more passages to follow that don't cause religion goers to go ape shit over non-believers?
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  28. Post #548
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    Thats a very valid point, abuse of the organisation of religion, but is that not a reason for abolishing it to prevent this abuse? because it will always be abused as people blindly follow it.

    But religion is the reason why he did what he did. He didnt do it for any other reason.
    Let's abolish porn too, while we're at it. Just think of all the child pornography that's been made!

    The point is that he would have found another reason. Or just gone with "fuck you, I'm taking over now".
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  29. Post #549
    Shiftyze's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,873 Posts
    Bin Laden was an asshole, and he always was going to be an asshole, regardless of religion.
    Um, no. That is a really really stupid theory. Religion is what drove him. You really do not know your shit, why do you keep posting.
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  30. Post #550
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,459 Posts
    But religion is the reason why he did what he did. He didnt do it for any other reason.
    Actually that's really vague.

    The reason why Bin Laden did what he did is because he despised a lot of things about America which we all despise as well. Now, what could those things be, hmm? Guido-faggots perhaps?
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  31. Post #551
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    Ah, you're right. Not the religion its self. So the bible says I must throw rocks at slaves and punish women who speak in church. I must follow the religion right? Still sounds fucked up to me, want me to remind you of some more passages to follow that don't cause religion goers to go ape shit over non-believers?
    The Bible was written by people. People, in case you didn't notice, are people, and therefore they tend to get in the way of whatever they claim was "divine inspiration" or whatever. It was edited hundreds, if not thousands, of times to fit the current culture. Even following that the Bible is infallible, we don't have any "original" copies. All we have are edited, and therefore fallible copies. (From the point of view of a Christian here, I'm not Christian myself)

    Edited:

    Um, no. That is a really really stupid theory. Religion is what drove him. You really do not know your shit, why do you keep posting.
    Thank you for your truly amazing counter-argument. You're a gift to logicians and debaters everywhere.
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  32. Post #552
    Lethaxx's Avatar
    April 2011
    645 Posts
    Let's abolish porn too, while we're at it. Just think of all the child pornography that's been made!

    The point is that he would have found another reason. Or just gone with "fuck you, I'm taking over now".
    People followed him because of the religion, no one goes, oh there is a random guy with no relevance to me at all so i will do as he says. The religion gave him power over people to do so, not "go kill yourself for no reason".
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  33. Post #553
    Ask me about my .gif fetish
    st0rmforce's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,594 Posts
    Politicians use the system to screw everybody for their own gain, ABOLISH POLITICS!
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  34. Post #554
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    People followed him because of the religion, no one goes, oh there is a random guy with no relevance to me at all so i will do as he says. The religion gave him power over people to do so, not "go kill yourself for no reason".
    "Fight for me and I'll give you some power"

    "Okay"

    Bam, no religion necessary.

    Edited:

    Politicians use the system to screw everybody for their own gain, ABOLISH POLITICS!
    People abuse economics to screw everybody for their own gain, ABOLISH THE ECONOMY!

    It's amazing how well this applies to so many different viewpoints.
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  35. Post #555
    Lethaxx's Avatar
    April 2011
    645 Posts
    Actually that's really vague.

    The reason why Bin Laden did what he did is because he despised a lot of things about America which we all despise as well. Now, what could those things be, hmm? Guido-faggots perhaps?
    so why havent countries within africa attacked america?

    Edited:

    "Fight for me and I'll give you some power"

    "Okay"

    Bam, no religion necessary.
    He came to power because of his religion he wasnt just randomly selected.
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  36. Post #556
    Wet Birds
    Levithan's Avatar
    September 2005
    8,027 Posts
    Shifty seems to be making a lot of assumptions. I didn't know he was so intimate with Osama and everyone that has decided to go to war ever.
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  37. Post #557
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    He came to power because of his religion he wasnt just randomly selected.
    Because he definitely couldn't have come to power any other way at all.

    You know, like the example I gave in the post you quoted.
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  38. Post #558
    Lethaxx's Avatar
    April 2011
    645 Posts
    Because he definitely couldn't have come to power any other way at all.

    You know, like the example I gave in the post you quoted.
    Apologies that was me misunderstanding. Yeah he could have came to power in another way but people would probably not have blindly followed him.
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  39. Post #559
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    12,459 Posts
    so why havent countries within africa attacked america?
    Because of lack of resources, because of tightened America's homeland security, especially after the 9/11 incident? Duh?

    Also why would they? Bin Laden carried out an attack, yes. And there is still hate towards the American ways in the East or wherever (even in America.) But still, not as much extreme measures are taken anymore, and there I listed some reasons why.
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  40. Post #560
    ECrownofFire's Avatar
    January 2011
    2,004 Posts
    Apologies that was me misunderstanding. Yeah he could have came to power in another way but people would probably not have blindly followed him.
    People will do whatever you want when you put a gun to their head. Religion just gives you a gun with a different name. This one is named "Helen" and it shoots rivers of sulfur.

    Edited:

    Because of lack resources, because of tightened America's homeland security, especially after the 9/11 incident? Duh?

    Also why would they? Bin Laden carried out an attack, yes. And there is still hate towards American ways in the East. But still, not as much extreme measures are taken anymore.
    Also, African countries tend to not hate us quite as much.

    But yeah, they couldn't even afford the plane flight to send a bomber to the US.
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