1. Post #1
    ..............
    nekosune's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,827 Posts
    Huffington Post posted:
    Source: Caters
    A little boy who decided he was a girl trapped in a boy's body has become one of the youngest-ever children to have his decision backed by the NHS - aged just four.
    With his blonde pigtails and purple tutu, Zach Avery, now five, has been living as a girl for more than a year.
    Little Zach was just three when he began refusing to live as a boy, instead choosing to wear pink dresses and ribbons in his long, blonde hair - because he has Gender Identity Disorder (GID).
    Mum Theresa Avery, 32, said her son used to be a "normal" little boy who loved Thomas the Tank Engine, but suddenly at the end of 2010, he decided he wanted to live as a girl.
    He became obsessed with the children's TV character Dora the Explorer and started dressing in female clothing.
    Theresa and Zach's father Darren, 41, became worried by their son's behaviour and took him to the doctor.
    He was officially diagnosed with GID by NHS specialists at the Tavistock and Patman Foundation Trust in London, making Zach one of the youngest affected children in the UK.
    Mum-of-four Theresa said: "He just turned round to me one day when he was three and said: 'Mummy, I'm a girl'. I assumed he was just going through a phase and just left it at that.
    "But then it got serious and he would become upset if anyone referred to him as a boy.
    "He used to cry and try to cut off his willy out of frustration."
    Specialists explained to Theresa and Darren that gender identity disorder is a conflict between a person's actual physical gender and the gender that person identifies himself or herself as.
    Theresa said: "They told us that although he had a male body, his brain was telling him he was a girl."
    And Zach's school - Purfleet Primary in Essex - has even turned their toilet block gender-neutral to support him.
    Theresa added: "They have changed the toilets for Key Stage 1 pupils into Unisex instead of male/female and they address him as a girl, which is what he wants.
    "When he gets a bit older, to Key Stage 2, then obviously the law changes and there will be more difficulties surrounding the bathroom issue, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it - it may be that Zach will use the staff toilets.
    "We explained to the other kids at the school that Zachy's body was that of a boy but in his brain he was a girl. We said Zach was just happier being a girl than a boy.
    "But the other kids haven't batted an eyelid, they've accepted Zach as Zach and there's been no problems at the school with bullying.
    "The school has been brilliant and really, really supportive."
    When he goes to school, Zach, known affectionately as Zachy, wears a girl's trouser uniform and black boots with pink trim, which his mother said is female but still neutral.
    And mum said that although she misses her little boy, the family is very supportive of Zachy.
    She said: "He just wants to be like a little girl and he's very happy with his long blonde hair, pink and red bedroom and a wardrobe full of girls clothes.
    "He likes playing with his sister's old toys but he still loves Dr Who too and playing with his brother. And we still put some neutral clothes in his wardrobe if he ever decides he wants to wear them.
    "We leave it up to him to decide what he wants to do - if he changes his mind and wants to be a boy again then he does, but if he doesn't, he doesn't.
    She admitted: "I would love to have my son back, but I want him to be happy. If this is the route he wants to take - if this is what makes him happy - then so be it. I would rather him have my full support.
    "People need to be aware of this condition because it's very common but even many family support workers have never heard of cases in children. There are people out there but they don't want to talk about it."
    Figures from the Tavistock and Patman Foundation Trust clinic - the national body for GID - revealed 165 children have been diagnosed with GID this year.
    A spokesperson at Tavistock Clinic in London said they were unable to comment on individual case, but only seven children under the age of 5 were diagnosed last year - making Zach one of the youngest.
    The spokesperson said: "Tavistock Clinic had 97 referrals in 2009/2010; 139 in 2010/2011 and thus far this year 165 referrals.
    "The trend in referrals has been up over the years - this may reflect greater awareness.
    "We see children and young people up to the age of 18, from across the UK, who are experiencing difficulties in the development of their gender identity.
    "This includes children who are unhappy with their biological sex. Some may be boys who prefer activities and role associated with the opposite sex, some may also identify as the opposite sex and vice versa for girls.
    "In general when younger children are referred it is in relation to cross gender preferences in play, play mates and activities. It is more unusual for children of this age to express cross gender identification - that is the wish or belief that they belong to the opposite sex.
    "The diagnosis of GID is made by the key workers working with the young person. We will also assess their general wellbeing. We remain in contact with young people often for many years.
    "Our aim is not to predict or direct the outcome, but rather to support the young person in their general development as well as develop a trusting collaborative therapeutic relationship in which it is possible to openly explore their feelings about their gender."
    Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...31.html?ref=uk
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Funny Funny x 39Friendly Friendly x 12Optimistic Optimistic x 4Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  2. Post #2
    Zyx
    Guest 3855 is lost and can't find the park exit
    Zyx's Avatar
    February 2005
    2,827 Posts
    Alright, let me rephrase that:
    Maybe it's too early to just go all in on it.
    But hey, as long as it makes him happy and that he won't ever regret it, then good for him. Or her.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Show Events Agree Agree x 33Dumb Dumb x 6 (list)

  3. Post #3
    Because at the age of 4 you are mature enough to make such a big decision in your life.
    Because your maturity defines your genes right?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Latvia Show Events Dumb Dumb x 44Agree Agree x 3 (list)

  4. Post #4
    sarcastic bastard
    Wiggles's Avatar
    October 2005
    5,037 Posts
    Because at the age of 4 you are mature enough to make such a big decision in your life.
    Mum-of-four Theresa said: "He just turned round to me one day when he was three and said: 'Mummy, I'm a girl'. I assumed he was just going through a phase and just left it at that.
    "But then it got serious and he would become upset if anyone referred to him as a boy.
    "He used to cry and try to cut off his willy out of frustration."
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Friendly x 55Funny x 29Agree x 4Optimistic x 1Dumb x 1 (list)

  5. Post #5
    Gay Member #1
    Dennab
    November 2009
    5,519 Posts
    And? I used to dress as a girl and did shit with my dick at that age.

    I'm perfectly normal now ofc
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 31Disagree Disagree x 16Funny Funny x 8Informative Informative x 2 (list)

  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    Metanar's Avatar
    June 2009
    2,104 Posts
    Hey cool she's being treated at the tavistock clinic, I just got referred there.

    I kinda wish people would actually stop posting these threads, to be honest, I don't think any new ground is going to be broken in this thread as opposed to the other 50 transgender threads that just dissolved into arguments.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 30Friendly Friendly x 4Dumb Dumb x 3Winner Winner x 1 (list)

  7. Post #7
    TheJoker's Avatar
    July 2008
    3,601 Posts
    People still use the word "willy"?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 63Agree Agree x 10Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    raviool's Avatar
    February 2008
    3,005 Posts
    hes as much a girl as ross' son when wanted a barbie doll instead of a gi joe toy.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Estonia Show Events Dumb Dumb x 20Agree Agree x 2Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    farmatyr's Avatar
    June 2007
    4,214 Posts
    Because your maturity defines your genes right?
    Since when could they diagnose this shit genetically?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Norway Show Events Agree Agree x 26 (list)

  10. Post #10
    Gay Member #1
    Dennab
    November 2009
    5,519 Posts
    People still use the word "willy"?
    Cock and Dick are scary

    Penis is too adult for the children
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 36Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,873 Posts
    Since when could they diagnose this shit genetically?
    I'm pretty sure this kind of thing is caused by a male structured brain being changed into a female one for whatever reason, and the hormones and such are all imbalanced by that.

    Or something similar. The point is, it is a totally natural thing.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 2Dumb Dumb x 2 (list)

  12. Post #12
    TheJoey's Avatar
    June 2010
    4,398 Posts
    i remember when i was 4 and thought i was a frog.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 65Dumb Dumb x 3Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  13. Post #13
    i remember when i was 4 and thought i was a frog.

    Also,
    I thought I was "sky-clouds."
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Denmark Show Events Winner Winner x 5 (list)

  14. Post #14
    Wet Birds
    Levithan's Avatar
    September 2005
    8,027 Posts
    my brother wanted to grow up to be a rainbow
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows Vista United States Show Events Funny Funny x 39Optimistic Optimistic x 15Friendly Friendly x 2 (list)

  15. Post #15
    ..............
    nekosune's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,827 Posts
    Hey cool she's being treated at the tavistock clinic, I just got referred there.

    I kinda wish people would actually stop posting these threads, to be honest, I don't think any new ground is going to be broken in this thread as opposed to the other 50 transgender threads that just dissolved into arguments.
    I did it more because it was news, that had intrested me, then anything else.

  16. Post #16
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,752 Posts
    I really wish it could be referred to as something other than a disorder. Doesn't exactly help convey the best idea with people saying "You've got a disorder." all the time.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply United States Show Events Agree Agree x 5 (list)

  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    farmatyr's Avatar
    June 2007
    4,214 Posts
    I'm pretty sure this kind of thing is caused by a male structured brain being changed into a female one for whatever reason, and the hormones and such are all imbalanced by that.

    Or something similar. The point is, it is a totally natural thing.
    How can you call it natural when the body is doing something it's not supposed to?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Norway Show Events Dumb x 6Agree x 4Funny x 2Disagree x 2Artistic x 1 (list)

  18. Post #18
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,752 Posts
    Because it is a natural occurring condition. Its not that the body is doing something it shouldn't, just that its doing something uncommon.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply United States Show Events Agree Agree x 10 (list)

  19. Post #19
    Fudders
    Tudd's Avatar
    September 2010
    3,250 Posts
    I miss good old fashion 1950's "It's just a phase." mentality.


    EDIT

    It's a Joke.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 8Funny Funny x 3Disagree Disagree x 2Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    18,873 Posts
    How can you call it natural when the body is doing something it's not supposed to?
    As Zedacon said, it's less "unnatrual" and more "unusual".

    And there's nothing in the slightest wrong with being different - only with people that treat you different.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  21. Post #21
    Last or First's Avatar
    December 2009
    4,281 Posts
    How can you call it natural when the body is doing something it's not supposed to?
    I don't think that you're thinking of the right use of the word 'natural'.

    Being born blind isn't supposed to happen, but it is natural. Same with being a child genius / savant, or being gay.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 7 (list)

  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    DarkSpider's Avatar
    July 2006
    816 Posts
    Mother shouldn't have let him watch Dora the explorer at such an impressionable age. Unless there is physical evidence that it is in his genes, it's most likely his environment at the young age of 4 that leads him to believe false things.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Dumb Dumb x 13Agree Agree x 4Disagree Disagree x 2Artistic Artistic x 1 (list)

  23. Post #23
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,752 Posts
    Mother shouldn't have let him watch Dora the explorer at such an impressionable age. Unless there is physical evidence that it is in his genes, it's most likely his environment at the young age of 4 that leads him to believe false things.
    This isn't true at all. An incredibly overwhelming majority of transgender persons become aware of their gender identity between the ages of 4 and 7.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply United States Show Events Agree Agree x 7Useful Useful x 1 (list)

  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    Contag's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,828 Posts
    I'm pretty sure this kind of thing is caused by a male structured brain being changed into a female one for whatever reason, and the hormones and such are all imbalanced by that.

    Or something similar. The point is, it is a totally natural thing.
    there is no such thing as a male structured brain prior to socialization, and even then, it's a pretty poor concept as otherwise all males would be roughly similar, as would all females in terms of behaviour
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Informative Informative x 2Disagree Disagree x 2Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  25. Post #25
    Ask me about my 'female train' fetish.
    Dennab
    January 2006
    5,457 Posts
    I have GID.

    However I also have DID (Disassociative Identity Disorder) so the NHS won't back me for treatment.

    Fucking sucks. :smith:
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows XP United Kingdom Show Events Friendly Friendly x 21Funny Funny x 1Dumb Dumb x 1Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  26. Post #26
    Gold Member
    DarkSpider's Avatar
    July 2006
    816 Posts
    This isn't true at all. An incredibly overwhelming majority of transgender persons become aware of their gender identity between the ages of 4 and 7.
    God I feel for them. Knowing you can never have a kid and be happy with your life would make me kill myself. I don't think we have working sex changes yet do we? Or can they still be happy as a "girl" with a penis, just with a rewired brain structure from the hormones. Also, I blame the synthetic proteins that they are now putting in our food. Fuck you monsanto corp!
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Dumb Dumb x 8Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    Contag's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,828 Posts
    And I certainly don't think that gender is this static kind of monolithic structure that never ever changes

    I do understand the value of rhetoric surrounding that though, because otherwise idiots would think that emerging a gender is like a picking a pair of jeans, or that it can and should be cured

    I think that the medicalization of gender discourse has had pretty significant effects on trans* people and how they discover to convey their understanding of their gender
    (and obviously the resultant procedures)
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Agree Agree x 4Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  28. Post #28
    Mum Theresa Avery, 32, said her son used to be a "normal" little boy who loved Thomas the Tank Engine, but suddenly at the end of 2010, he decided he wanted to live as a girl.
    poor child

    the Thomas years were some of the best of my life
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 16Agree Agree x 4Winner Winner x 2 (list)

  29. Post #29
    TheJoey's Avatar
    June 2010
    4,398 Posts
    God I feel for them. Knowing you can never have a kid and be happy with your life would make me kill myself.
    wait, what?

    there's no such thing as adoption, or being happy with who you are no matter how many people believe you are not "the norm"?

    are you, like, an 80 year old republican?


    also this kid's missing out. thomas the tank engine is off the fucking railz
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Zing Zing x 2Agree Agree x 2Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  30. Post #30
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,752 Posts
    God I feel for them. Knowing you can never have a kid and be happy with your life would make me kill myself. I don't think we have working sex changes yet do we? Or can they still be happy as a "girl" with a penis, just with a rewired brain structure from the hormones. Also, I blame the synthetic proteins that they are now putting in our food. Fuck you monsanto corp!
    What the hell do synthetic proteins have to do with anything?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply United States Show Events Agree Agree x 6 (list)

  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    HawkeyeTy's Avatar
    February 2006
    1,608 Posts
    I'm all for Transgender people and everything but I am massively uncomfortable with the idea of a kid deciding their gender.
    Who you are is constantly changing, and never in life more-so than childhood, it just seems awful to make that massive of a life decision at an age where your comprehension of life in general is by far the worst it could be in your existence.
    This is a fucked up subject to think about.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Canada Show Events Agree Agree x 16Disagree Disagree x 3Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    Contag's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,828 Posts
    poor child

    the Thomas years were some of the best of my life
    yeah you can really see some strong lines of internalized sexism there

    Edited:

    I'm all for Transgender people and everything but I am massively uncomfortable with the idea of a >10 year old deciding their gender.
    Who you are is constantly changing, and never in life more-so than childhood, it just seems awful to make that massive of a life decision at a age where your comprehension of life in general is the worst it will ever be in your.
    This is a fucked up subject to think about.
    How? Kids are pretty aware of things
    She knows that pink and dora = girls, and thomas the tank engine = boys, and that dicks = boys, and feels an affinity for the girls side of things
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Optimistic Optimistic x 1Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  33. Post #33
    ..............
    nekosune's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,827 Posts
    I'm all for Transgender people and everything but I am massively uncomfortable with the idea of a kid deciding their gender.
    Who you are is constantly changing, and never in life more-so than childhood, it just seems awful to make that massive of a life decision at a age where your comprehension of life in general is the by far worst it will ever be in your existance.
    This is a fucked up subject to think about.
    Except what happens is therapy, no 'life desicion' is made, other then living as they want, and therapy, and when the time comes, if is still going on, puberty blockers until they are legally and mentally mature enough for therapists to decide if they should be put on hormones.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 5 (list)

  34. Post #34
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,752 Posts
    I'm all for Transgender people and everything but I am massively uncomfortable with the idea of a kid deciding their gender.
    Who you are is constantly changing, and never in life more-so than childhood, it just seems awful to make that massive of a life decision at a age where your comprehension of life in general is the by far worst it will ever be in your existance.
    This is a fucked up subject to think about.
    Its not about making a choice or decision, its about awareness. They aren't making a decision at this age, they are just becoming aware of it, as I previously stated.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply United States Show Events Agree Agree x 11 (list)

  35. Post #35
    TheJoey's Avatar
    June 2010
    4,398 Posts
    I'm all for Transgender people and everything but I am massively uncomfortable with the idea of a >10 year old deciding their gender.
    Who you are is constantly changing, and never in life more-so than childhood, it just seems awful to make that massive of a life decision at a age where your comprehension of life in general is the worst it will ever be in your.
    This is a fucked up subject to think about.
    i don't agree that this is a very fucked up subject but i do agree that the kid at 4 doesn't really know what the fuck he's talking about. he might like pigtails and the color pink, but whoa okay chopping at your dick because your mom won't let you wear a dress? i didn't even know girls and boys had different parts at that age, so how does he know he doesn't want a dick?

    i dunno man, that shit don't make no sense.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,329 Posts
    Personally I wouldn't let my kid do this until they hit puberty. When they're something like 4 years old you don't know if for sure that they're going to grow out of it or if it's something that will always be with them.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 3Disagree Disagree x 1Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    Contag's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,828 Posts
    a person's actual physical gender
    and this folks, is what is wrong with GID doctors

    Edited:

    Personally I wouldn't let my kid do this until they hit puberty.
    You wouldn't let them do what?
    Go to the doctor?

    Edited:

    you are aware that nothing has occurred other than a diagnosis has been made?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Agree Agree x 5 (list)

  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    Meller Yeller's Avatar
    June 2010
    10,329 Posts
    and this folks, is what is wrong with GID doctors

    Edited:



    You wouldn't let them do what?
    Go to the doctor?
    I would probably not do much of anything. See if it's something they go through and get tired of or to see if it actually lasts.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Dumb Dumb x 2Disagree Disagree x 1Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    Contag's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,828 Posts
    This includes children who are unhappy with their biological sex. Some may be boys who prefer activities and role associated with the opposite sex, some may also identify as the opposite sex and vice versa for girls.
    sex =/= gender!
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Australia Show Events Agree Agree x 6 (list)

  40. Post #40
    I'm different!
    Doctor Zedacon's Avatar
    July 2006
    13,752 Posts
    i don't agree that this is a very fucked up subject but i do agree that the kid at 4 doesn't really know what the fuck he's talking about. he might like pigtails and the color pink, but whoa okay chopping at your dick because your mom won't let you wear a dress? i didn't even know girls and boys had different parts at that age, so how does he know he doesn't want a dick?

    i dunno man, that shit don't make no sense.
    He may not know what the different reproductive organs are at that age, but he is aware that there are differences. Many children are aware of differences in the sexes to at least a small degree even that young. I knew girls didn't have penises at about his age. Hell, I remember some of my friends speculating what girls actually had instead of a penis in second grade; if they had anything to wager, they'd have been placing bets.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply United States Show Events Funny Funny x 1 (list)