1. Post #201
    Wet Birds
    Levithan's Avatar
    September 2005
    8,158 Posts
    also what is ghosts maximum flight speed
    My Monster Manual says 300' a minute with perfect maneuverability.

  2. Post #202
    Dennab
    December 2011
    5,623 Posts
    I often find myself flip-flopping on my belief in the paranormal. (Ghosts and such) That statement sounds hypocritical, but being an Atheist sort of allows that. Why? Well science is just as much of a guessing game as anything else. What we don't know we try to guess and solve with logic; then we test it with experiments until it can be proven or disproven as a theory. I have had a few paranormal experiences, but I just haven't and inclination of what a ghost would be if souls aren't actually there. I don't think we'll know for quite a long time and I'm ok with that. Part of the excitement of living in this Universe is always having some goal or exciting truth to uncover about the Universe's mysterious internal workings.
    Guessing game? the fuck kinda science have you ever done that involved guess work?

    And you don't prove or disprove something with science, ever.

    Edited:

    Also I don't even understand why this shit is up for debate man, this is the 21st century, there are no such things as ghosts and poltergeists.

  3. Post #203
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    Listen, everyone who believes in ghosts. If you cannot prove something, it is untrue or it does not exist. This has been the basis of philosophy and science for thousands of years. If you cannot disprove something, that is not evidence of its existence. And saying that "there are still things unknown to science" is not proof of something because that does not provide any evidence to its existence. And I challenge anyone to give an example of any well known paranormal event. I am completely sure that if it is high profile, it HAS been disproven by science.

  4. Post #204
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    And saying that "there are still things unknown to science" is not proof of something because that does not provide any evidence to its existence.
    On this point, you can use just about any argument against the God of the Gaps to the same effect. Ignorance is not license to make shit up, and ignorance is only a temporary, perpetually shrinking state.

  5. Post #205
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    Listen, everyone who believes in ghosts. If you cannot prove something, it is untrue or it does not exist. This has been the basis of philosophy and science for thousands of years. If you cannot disprove something, that is not evidence of its existence. And saying that "there are still things unknown to science" is not proof of something because that does not provide any evidence to its existence. And I challenge anyone to give an example of any well known paranormal event. I am completely sure that if it is high profile, it HAS been disproven by science.
    "Science is the only way in the whole world anything can be even remotely true."

    Seriously, science is not the answer to everything. I'd be more willing to believe in ghosts due to the sheer amount of eyewitnesses alone. Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable. They're unreliable to a point, but when the number increases to millions, I'm pretty sure that's saying something. On top of this, I'm sure when the world was considered flat, everyone laughed at the person who said it wasn't. They probably said the same thing you said: "You can't prove that, therefore it's a waste of time!" I'm not saying everyone should believe in ghosts, but it is pretty ignorant to ignore the evidence we do have simply because science says "no". On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little.

  6. Post #206
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable.
    FYI eye-witnesses are the lowest form of testimony in any first-world court, and are completely inadmissible in any rational or scientific setting.

    There's a reason for that.

    They are unreliable.

    Millions of people CAN be wrong. They frequently are. In fact, they're wrong more often than they're right.

    I refer back to this post in which I explain how millions of people can be and are wrong:

    There are no such things as ghosts, or spirits, or paranormal poltergeists or whatever.

    The human brain has an extreme propensity for making shit up. Psychologically, we have evolved to HATE the act of not knowing something. We hate the dark because we don't know what's in it, if anything. We hate seeing closed doors and shuttered windows because we don't know what's behind them. We hate seeing a rustling bush because we don't know if it's a bird or a chupacabra.

    Thus, the human brain faces a constant sense of cognitive dissonance when we WANT to know something but CAN'T. Regularly, to cope with the dissonance between information known and information unknown, the brain will actively speculate and attempt to fill in the blanks of the equation, typically in a "worst-case scenario" fashion. I'm not talking about conscious speculation, either, I'm talking about speculation as in "the part of your brain that processes visual information makes some shit up before sending it up to the conscious brain." This is a survival mechanism. Even if there's a one in one hundred chance that whatever is rustling in that bush is dangerous, the motherfucker who assumes it is despite all reason and rationale was the fucker who didn't get ate.

    This function of the human psyche gave birth to religion, spirituality, and general supernatural mythology. We are hard-wired to have an extreme desire to know things and to make shit up in our own heads when we can't. You see this phenomenon at work a lot in scientific circles, particularly historical scientists (Newton, for instance,) who turn to religion and supernaturalism when they reach the limits of their knowledge and simply do not have the tools or the means to learn more things legitimately.

    Additionally, human perceptions are extremely faulty. The human forebrain, to conserve energy, often gets "bored," so to speak, when it is presented with static, mundane information. For instance, a recent study (don't have a link, but google it) showed that a majority of human test subjects who were told to look at themselves in a mirror non-stop for long periods of time would eventually report that their own faces morphed, or were replaced by monstrous, inhuman figures. This is because, as the brain stops processing repetitious visual information, it starts making assumptions about what it *should* be seeing rather than actively processing sensory information. The brain is not very good at making assumptions, suffice to say.

    So, when you see something out of the corner of your eye, or immediately think "ghosts!" when something seems off, your brain is quite simply fucking with you. The "see it to believe it" logic is faulty considering our senses are so completely inept at actually giving us accurate information that we had to invent scientific tools just to compensate with our tendency to make shit up--scientific tools that have, thus far, returned negative results toward supernatural hypotheses 100% of the time.

    Your instincts function to help you survive, not to help you understand. If you think you see a ghost and you run, you will certainly survive to tell the tale. That does not mean your instinct is trustworthy in that regard. You can trust your brain to keep you alive, not to tell you the truth.
    Edited:

    Also science is may not be the answer to everything when you account for metaphysical bullshit, but it's the only field that has any real answers to begin with.

    Edited:

    Also, using your "world is flat" example:

    Millions of people firmly believed the world was flat.

    They were fucking wrong.

    They were only proven wrong by a dude with science.

  7. Post #207
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,458 Posts
    "Science is the only way in the whole world anything can be even remotely true."

    Seriously, science is not the answer to everything. I'd be more willing to believe in ghosts due to the sheer amount of eyewitnesses alone. Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable. They're unreliable to a point, but when the number increases to millions, I'm pretty sure that's saying something. On top of this, I'm sure when the world was considered flat, everyone laughed at the person who said it wasn't. They probably said the same thing you said: "You can't prove that, therefore it's a waste of time!" I'm not saying everyone should believe in ghosts, but it is pretty ignorant to ignore the evidence we do have simply because science says "no". On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little.
    Yes, eyewitness are notoriously, infamously unreliable. To be honest it seems like more of an excuse used to justify belief in something ignorant. Every day countless people see angels, aliens, ghosts, god, gods, monsters and more (and even have conversations with these), of which none obviously took place.

    And do you know why science says no? Because there is no evidence. If there had been actual, falsifiable evidence it wouldn't be so easy to rule it out as bullshit.

  8. Post #208
    Gold Member
    halflife_123's Avatar
    June 2006
    1,678 Posts
    Also you can't just say 'prove they don't exist' because the fact of the matter is, at this moment in time, there is nothing to suggest they do. You can't disprove something that isn't currently proven.

  9. Post #209
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little.
    The fact that if ghosts existed, the world would go around the sun to leave them floating in space.

  10. Post #210
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,458 Posts
    The fact that if ghosts existed, the world would go around the sun to leave them floating in space.
    and the sun would be circulating around the black hole in the center of our galaxy, which itself is currently moving at around 400 km/s through empty space.

    Also, what happens to ghost when the world ends? When it's absorbed by the sun, where do they go?

  11. Post #211
    Gold Member
    sHiBaN's Avatar
    April 2006
    4,109 Posts
    For me, it's religious. It's personal belief. But I do believe we should have an open mind about these things as we, ourselves do not know every single inch of the universe we are located inside of.

    I live by Christianity so I believe to exist as a spirit, being manifested in a physical body. When my physical form dies, my spirit ascends into a different plane of existence, into heaven. Somewhere not in this realm or world, not in this universe or perceived reality, given a whole new, different form of body.

    In the Bible, there are evil spirits. Perhaps spirits that wish the living harm. They do not necessarily have to take the form of humans, in fact, it is mentioned they could be grotesque monsters not from this world.

    Aside from personal beliefs, the argument is also dependent on cultural, societal and ethnic tradition. Where I come from, folklore, Catholicism and the innate fear of the unknown play into the almost normalized view of spirituality. It is accepted in the Philippines that there are other-worldly beings that exist on our plane of existence.

  12. Post #212
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    Do you seriously want to invoke the God of the Gaps?

    Because that sort of faith has extremely diminishing returns.

  13. Post #213
    Wet Birds
    Levithan's Avatar
    September 2005
    8,158 Posts
    What does and does not have a soul?

    At which point in the tree of life does a species acquire a soul?

    Ugh, if this was all testable and not total bullshit, I'd totally be an Ectobiologist.

  14. Post #214
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    presumably when they can trade it for a bitchin ferarri

  15. Post #215
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    That explanation is bullshit. People don't just say they see things because they want to believe in them. Yes, our senses aren't the best, but that still doesn't mean ghosts and anything else we don't completely understand is just "bullshit" as most people say. Like I said, I could understand if it were just a few thousand people claiming to have seen such things. But millions? No. How can millions of people claim to see ghosts, and it turns out all of it was just their mind fucking with ALL of them? Now, I could understand the majority of those people claiming to see ghosts were just seeing things. But I don't believe that applies to ALL of the eyewitnesses. I hold this strongly because I've actually seen something of the paranormal (not a ghost) and even though my evidence is lacking, that doesn't mean you or anyone else should completely dismiss anything that isn't scientifically possible.

    You don't have to believe in it completely, just don't dismiss it completely either.

  16. Post #216
    Gold Member
    Patriarch's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,507 Posts
    For me, it's religious. It's personal belief. But I do believe we should have an open mind about these things as we, ourselves do not know every single inch of the universe we are located inside of.
    Just because we don't know everything, doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever.

  17. Post #217
    Dennab
    October 2008
    1,044 Posts
    i would call a ghost a superhuman suspended in animation from the depths of the earth onto the heavenly bodies that accept them. if ever encountering what you suspect to be a ghost, you may be just visiting the dimension they feel most comfortable with.

  18. Post #218
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    That explanation is bullshit. People don't just say they see things because they want to believe in them.
    Prove they don't.

    Edited:

    Or are you the only one that can demand proof of a negative?

  19. Post #219
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    For me, it's religious. It's personal belief. But I do believe we should have an open mind about these things as we, ourselves do not know every single inch of the universe we are located inside of.
    I have an open mind. But that doesn't mean there's evidence for the paranormal. It just means that once there's evidence, I'll accept it.

    That explanation is bullshit. People don't just say they see things because they want to believe in them. Yes, our senses aren't the best, but that still doesn't mean ghosts and anything else we don't completely understand is just "bullshit" as most people say. Like I said, I could understand if it were just a few thousand people claiming to have seen such things. But millions? No. How can millions of people claim to see ghosts, and it turns out all of it was just their mind fucking with ALL of them? Now, I could understand the majority of those people claiming to see ghosts were just seeing things. But I don't believe that applies to ALL of the eyewitnesses. I hold this strongly because I've actually seen something of the paranormal (not a ghost) and even though my evidence is lacking, that doesn't mean you or anyone else should completely dismiss anything that isn't scientifically possible.

    You don't have to believe in it completely, just don't dismiss it completely either.
    Millions of people believed the world was flat once. There's no scientific evidence that anything paranormal has happened, or exists. That's enough of a conclusion to say that ghosts don't exist, just as you can say that Russel's Teapot doesn't exist.

  20. Post #220
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    Russel's Teapot doesn't exist.
    Silence, heathen.

    One day.

    You will rue this day.

  21. Post #221
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    "Science is the only way in the whole world anything can be even remotely true."
    Uhhhhh yes that's actually 100% correct. If something can't be proven with science, it's not real. Everything that we know to be real currently has been proven by science or has at least had evidence to back it up that was determined using the scientific method. Ghosts and paranormal activities have no such scientific proof or evidence.

    Seriously, science is not the answer to everything. I'd be more willing to believe in ghosts due to the sheer amount of eyewitnesses alone. Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable. They're unreliable to a point, but when the number increases to millions, I'm pretty sure that's saying something.
    Only 300 years ago, almost the entire world believed in witches and warlocks. Millions of people claimed to have seen these things and interacted with them for centuries. These occurrences stood on nothing but "eyewitness accounts", yet today, we know them to be false. Why is this? Because Humans are stupid sometimes. We see things that aren't there, and the things we see that we don't understand are interpreted incorrectly.

    This is ignoring the fact that having eyewitness accounts without other evidence is completely useless and would never be accepted in any scientific community or court of law. Eyewitnesses are used to reaffirm evidence that already exists, not as evidence itself.

    On top of this, I'm sure when the world was considered flat, everyone laughed at the person who said it wasn't. They probably said the same thing you said: "You can't prove that, therefore it's a waste of time!" I'm not saying everyone should believe in ghosts, but it is pretty ignorant to ignore the evidence we do have simply because science says "no". On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little.
    You are looking at this completely backwards. This is actually as perfect example of why science ALWAYS matters and why nothing is real until it is proven.

    And ghosts haven't been proven yet.

    So they ain't real.

  22. Post #222
    Dennab
    December 2011
    5,623 Posts
    "Science is the only way in the whole world anything can be even remotely true."

    Seriously, science is not the answer to everything. I'd be more willing to believe in ghosts due to the sheer amount of eyewitnesses alone. Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable. They're unreliable to a point, but when the number increases to millions, I'm pretty sure that's saying something. On top of this, I'm sure when the world was considered flat, everyone laughed at the person who said it wasn't. They probably said the same thing you said: "You can't prove that, therefore it's a waste of time!" I'm not saying everyone should believe in ghosts, but it is pretty ignorant to ignore the evidence we do have simply because science says "no". On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little.
    Science is the answer to an overwhelming majority of questions though, and if you believe in ghosts well I pity you.

    Edited:

    That explanation is bullshit. People don't just say they see things because they want to believe in them. Yes, our senses aren't the best, but that still doesn't mean ghosts and anything else we don't completely understand is just "bullshit" as most people say. Like I said, I could understand if it were just a few thousand people claiming to have seen such things. But millions? No. How can millions of people claim to see ghosts, and it turns out all of it was just their mind fucking with ALL of them? Now, I could understand the majority of those people claiming to see ghosts were just seeing things. But I don't believe that applies to ALL of the eyewitnesses. I hold this strongly because I've actually seen something of the paranormal (not a ghost) and even though my evidence is lacking, that doesn't mean you or anyone else should completely dismiss anything that isn't scientifically possible.

    You don't have to believe in it completely, just don't dismiss it completely either.
    See heres the problem, we can and will completely dismiss ghosts and shit until someone can give the scientific community a way to test for the presence of souls with every single possible variable accounted for and until then keep your beliefs in ghosts, fairies and unicorns to yourself, cause at the end of the day if you believe in ghosts why not unicorns, trolls and Russells Teapot?

  23. Post #223
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    at the end of the day if you believe in ghosts why not unicorns, trolls and Russells Teapot?
    Because millions among millions of people don't claim to see unicorns, trolls and Russell's Teapot.

  24. Post #224
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    Because millions among millions of people don't claim to see unicorns, trolls and Russell's Teapot.
    Truth is not proportional to the amount of people who believe it.

  25. Post #225
    MEGA SENPAI KAWAII UGUU~~ =^_^=
    Megafan's Avatar
    September 2008
    14,608 Posts
    Because millions among millions of people don't claim to see unicorns, trolls and Russell's Teapot.
    The fact that more people believe in it does not make it any more credible. All the people in the world could believe that the Earth is flat and they would still be wrong.

  26. Post #226
    I am a solid atheist, never believed in this stuff, but in my great grandmothers old apartment two years ago. Well long story short, I heard my name called twice, footsteps in the middle of the night, electronics went on and off, a mirror that was screwed on to the wall just randomly fell over and crashed onto a table in front of me.

    I really do not know what happened, I guess it was ghosts but I do not want to find out, refuse to go near that house.

  27. Post #227
    Gold Member
    Jookia's Avatar
    July 2007
    6,768 Posts
    I really do not know what happened, I guess it was ghosts
    Ghost of the gaps.

  28. Post #228
    Dennab
    December 2011
    5,623 Posts
    Because millions among millions of people don't claim to see unicorns, trolls and Russell's Teapot.
    That's cool and stuff, but that's not how truth works broski, by that idea then witches and dragons exist, I mean after all St. George like full on fought a dragon right? and if witches weren't real then there would have been no need for the Salem witch trials right?

    Just because a lot of people believe in it doesn't give it any credence.

  29. Post #229
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    Because millions among millions of people don't claim to see unicorns, trolls and Russell's Teapot.
    I had a personal experience with Russells Teapot, but because you can't disprove me that therefore means it is real.

  30. Post #230
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,458 Posts
    Because millions among millions of people don't claim to see unicorns, trolls and Russell's Teapot.
    Hundreds of millions of people claim to communicate with Allah every day. I guess that is evidence of his existence.

  31. Post #231
    Hundreds of millions of people claim to communicate with Allah every day. I guess that is evidence of his existence.
    sadly yes it is

    infinitesimally small evidence, but evidence nonetheless

  32. Post #232
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,111 Posts
    sadly yes it is

    infinitesimally small evidence, but evidence nonetheless
    In the same way, if enough people claim Mr Hubbards works of fiction are true, then that will be evidence as well.

    Unfortuately, until education improves, people will still believe in bronze age nonsense such as ghosts or gods.

  33. Post #233
    snip i'm fucking dumb

  34. Post #234
    Jocken300's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,361 Posts
    I agree with what you said, OP, however I find myself unsure about where I stand on the subject of ghosts. I've had a couple of experiences throughout my life that I don't seem to be able to find a natural explanation for. My strongest experience was a couple of years ago when I was staying at my mom's place, and she, her husband at the time and his two children went down to the store to do some shopping. I decided to stay home alone, and started watching some TV in the basement. Suddenly I heard a loud noise, and as I turned my head into the direction where the noise came from, I saw that a door that was previously closed was open. I usually tried to keep this door closed, because it made me uneasy to see it being open in the corner of my eye. Without thinking much of it, I was just about to get up from the couch to close it, when it slammed shut. I should also make it clear that there were no open windows or anything around me, so it couldn't have been the wind. Now, after slamming shut with a loud bang, it opened itself again, only to slam itself shut again. It kept doing this, and it freaked me out so much that I ran out of the house in my socks and waited for the others to return home.

    If ghosts do exist, I don't think they are necessarily dead people. If you believe in different dimensions, perhaps it's something from another dimension slipping into our dimension? Or perhaps it is an unknown entity we simply haven't been able to explain?
    I'm just speculating wildly here.

  35. Post #235
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    I agree with what you said, OP, however I find myself unsure about where I stand on the subject of ghosts. I've had a couple of experiences throughout my life that I don't seem to be able to find a natural explanation for. My strongest experience was a couple of years ago when I was staying at my mom's place, and she, her husband at the time and his two children went down to the store to do some shopping. I decided to stay home alone, and started watching some TV in the basement. Suddenly I heard a loud noise, and as I turned my head into the direction where the noise came from, I saw that a door that was previously closed was open. I usually tried to keep this door closed, because it made me uneasy to see it being open in the corner of my eye. Without thinking much of it, I was just about to get up from the couch to close it, when it slammed shut. I should also make it clear that there were no open windows or anything around me, so it couldn't have been the wind. Now, after slamming shut with a loud bang, it opened itself again, only to slam itself shut again. It kept doing this, and it freaked me out so much that I ran out of the house in my socks and waited for the others to return home.

    If ghosts do exist, I don't think they are necessarily dead people. If you believe in different dimensions, perhaps it's something from another dimension slipping into our dimension? Or perhaps it is an unknown entity we simply haven't been able to explain?
    I'm just speculating wildly here.
    You can't be serious. You know that a window doesn't need to be open to create a draft right? My door slams itself open and closed all day because of the wind outside.

    And even if the wind was not the cause, you assume that invisible dead people are the cause? Or "something from another dimmension"? Do you even have any knowledge of the nature of other dimmensions? You are just making stuff up when your own knowledge fails you, further proving my point that peoples' minds fill in the blanks in any way possible, even if it is extremely illogical.

  36. Post #236
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    Truth is not proportional to the amount of people who believe it.
    You're right. But the amount of people who believe in ghosts is evidence to support them. I'm not saying ghosts are absolutely real. I'm saying that (from what I've gathered) there really isn't any evidence to disprove ghosts except for "well, they're fiction, dummy". I'd like to see some decently solid evidence before I can even remotely change my opinion. At this moment, the only evidence I know of is the eyewitnesses, which leads me to believe more in ghosts than not believe in them.

    Edited:

    I had a personal experience with Russells Teapot, but because you can't disprove me that therefore means it is real.
    That statement is pure stupid considering I'm talking about millions of people claiming to see paranormal things - not a single user on Facepunch. I'm obviously not going to be inclined to believe one person.

  37. Post #237
    Dennab
    December 2011
    5,623 Posts
    You're right. But the amount of people who believe in ghosts is evidence to support them. I'm not saying ghosts are absolutely real. I'm saying that (from what I've gathered) there really isn't any evidence to disprove ghosts except for "well, they're fiction, dummy". I'd like to see some decently solid evidence before I can even remotely change my opinion. At this moment, the only evidence I know of is the eyewitnesses, which leads me to believe more in ghosts than not believe in them.

    Edited:



    That statement is pure stupid considering I'm talking about millions of people claiming to see paranormal things - not a single user on Facepunch. I'm obviously not going to be inclined to believe one person.
    DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW EVIDENCE WORKS?

    wikipedia posted:
    Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. Giving or procuring evidence is the process of using those things that are either (a) presumed to be true, or (b) were themselves proven via evidence, to demonstrate an assertion's truth. Evidence is the currency by which one fulfills the burden of proof.
    I done 2 out of 3 years of a forensics science course, I literally fucking eat, breath and shit evidence and trust me, just because people believe in it, doesn't make it proof.

    I'm not sure if you're incapable of understanding what is being said in this thread so I'll strip it to the bare bones and make it as crystal clear as possible.

    Faith in the existence of something, does not lend credence to the existence of the idea. This is because the existence of ghosts, faeries and poltergeists etc is not a subjective factor, something can either exist or not, there is no leeway, your belief doesn't make it real or does it become evidence of it's existence.

  38. Post #238
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    You're right. But the amount of people who believe in ghosts is evidence to support them. I'm not saying ghosts are absolutely real. I'm saying that (from what I've gathered) there really isn't any evidence to disprove ghosts except for "well, they're fiction, dummy". I'd like to see some decently solid evidence before I can even remotely change my opinion. At this moment, the only evidence I know of is the eyewitnesses, which leads me to believe more in ghosts than not believe in them.

    Edited:



    That statement is pure stupid considering I'm talking about millions of people claiming to see paranormal things - not a single user on Facepunch. I'm obviously not going to be inclined to believe one person.
    Well I don't care if you're going to ignore logic and ask for proof of a negative. If you can only come up with a single piece of evidence based on eyewitness accounts, that does not mean you should accept it as true. What it means is that the concept is probably false since you can't find any real evidence. It isn't proof of ghosts existing.

  39. Post #239
    Jocken300's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,361 Posts
    You can't be serious. You know that a window doesn't need to be open to create a draft right? My door slams itself open and closed all day because of the wind outside.

    And even if the wind was not the cause, you assume that invisible dead people are the cause? Or "something from another dimmension"? Do you even have any knowledge of the nature of other dimmensions? You are just making stuff up when your own knowledge fails you, further proving my point that peoples' minds fill in the blanks in any way possible, even if it is extremely illogical.
    I'm not assuming that it's invisible dead people or creatures from other dimensions. I was simply wildly speculating at the end of my post of what many people experience as dead people could in reality be something completely different and unknown to us.

    Considering that the door didn't just merely open and close itself, but that it rather swung open completely, and slammed completely shut, and then opened itself again, it's pretty safe to assume that it was no ordinary draft. Adding onto that, it first opened, and only when I was about to get off the couch did it close. After that it started opening and closing itself at a very fast speed constantly, with no pauses.

    I've also experienced other things as I said in my post. Last year I could barely sleep for weeks, because whenever I tried to go to bed, my bed would start shaking a lot, as if someone grabbed a hold of it and shook it. My dad could even hear it shaking from downstairs, and would ask me what was going on in my room.

    Again, I'm not directly assuming that this is the result of ghosts (as in dead people or whatever), however I don't have any other explanation for it.

  40. Post #240
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    Lack of an explation for something is not proof of a paranormal event. It merely means that those who have experienced it so far lack a proper understanding of the event. I canguarantee you that if you were to get a physics expert to evaluate the swinging door or vibrating bed (two of the most common "paranormal experiences"), a real, scientific explanation would be discovered for these happenings.

    Adding speculation to the end of your post is irrelevant and unnecessary if you yourself don't even believe it.