And you don't prove or disprove something with science, ever.
Also I don't even understand why this shit is up for debate man, this is the 21st century, there are no such things as ghosts and poltergeists.
Listen, everyone who believes in ghosts. If you cannot prove something, it is untrue or it does not exist. This has been the basis of philosophy and science for thousands of years. If you cannot disprove something, that is not evidence of its existence. And saying that "there are still things unknown to science" is not proof of something because that does not provide any evidence to its existence. And I challenge anyone to give an example of any well known paranormal event. I am completely sure that if it is high profile, it HAS been disproven by science.
Seriously, science is not the answer to everything. I'd be more willing to believe in ghosts due to the sheer amount of eyewitnesses alone. Don't even try to tell me that eyewitnesses are unreliable. They're unreliable to a point, but when the number increases to millions, I'm pretty sure that's saying something. On top of this, I'm sure when the world was considered flat, everyone laughed at the person who said it wasn't. They probably said the same thing you said: "You can't prove that, therefore it's a waste of time!" I'm not saying everyone should believe in ghosts, but it is pretty ignorant to ignore the evidence we do have simply because science says "no". On the other hand, if you can give me any reasonable evidence disproving ghosts, my opinion might change a little.
There's a reason for that.
They are unreliable.
Millions of people CAN be wrong. They frequently are. In fact, they're wrong more often than they're right.
I refer back to this post in which I explain how millions of people can be and are wrong:
Also science is may not be the answer to everything when you account for metaphysical bullshit, but it's the only field that has any real answers to begin with.
Also, using your "world is flat" example:
Millions of people firmly believed the world was flat.
They were fucking wrong.
They were only proven wrong by a dude with science.
And do you know why science says no? Because there is no evidence. If there had been actual, falsifiable evidence it wouldn't be so easy to rule it out as bullshit.
Also you can't just say 'prove they don't exist' because the fact of the matter is, at this moment in time, there is nothing to suggest they do. You can't disprove something that isn't currently proven.
Also, what happens to ghost when the world ends? When it's absorbed by the sun, where do they go?
For me, it's religious. It's personal belief. But I do believe we should have an open mind about these things as we, ourselves do not know every single inch of the universe we are located inside of.
I live by Christianity so I believe to exist as a spirit, being manifested in a physical body. When my physical form dies, my spirit ascends into a different plane of existence, into heaven. Somewhere not in this realm or world, not in this universe or perceived reality, given a whole new, different form of body.
In the Bible, there are evil spirits. Perhaps spirits that wish the living harm. They do not necessarily have to take the form of humans, in fact, it is mentioned they could be grotesque monsters not from this world.
Aside from personal beliefs, the argument is also dependent on cultural, societal and ethnic tradition. Where I come from, folklore, Catholicism and the innate fear of the unknown play into the almost normalized view of spirituality. It is accepted in the Philippines that there are other-worldly beings that exist on our plane of existence.
Do you seriously want to invoke the God of the Gaps?
Because that sort of faith has extremely diminishing returns.
What does and does not have a soul?
At which point in the tree of life does a species acquire a soul?
Ugh, if this was all testable and not total bullshit, I'd totally be an Ectobiologist.
presumably when they can trade it for a bitchin ferarri
You don't have to believe in it completely, just don't dismiss it completely either.
i would call a ghost a superhuman suspended in animation from the depths of the earth onto the heavenly bodies that accept them. if ever encountering what you suspect to be a ghost, you may be just visiting the dimension they feel most comfortable with.
Only 300 years ago, almost the entire world believed in witches and warlocks. Millions of people claimed to have seen these things and interacted with them for centuries. These occurrences stood on nothing but "eyewitness accounts", yet today, we know them to be false. Why is this? Because Humans are stupid sometimes. We see things that aren't there, and the things we see that we don't understand are interpreted incorrectly.
This is ignoring the fact that having eyewitness accounts without other evidence is completely useless and would never be accepted in any scientific community or court of law. Eyewitnesses are used to reaffirm evidence that already exists, not as evidence itself.
You are looking at this completely backwards. This is actually as perfect example of why science ALWAYS matters and why nothing is real until it is proven.
And ghosts haven't been proven yet.
So they ain't real.
I am a solid atheist, never believed in this stuff, but in my great grandmothers old apartment two years ago. Well long story short, I heard my name called twice, footsteps in the middle of the night, electronics went on and off, a mirror that was screwed on to the wall just randomly fell over and crashed onto a table in front of me.
I really do not know what happened, I guess it was ghosts but I do not want to find out, refuse to go near that house.
Just because a lot of people believe in it doesn't give it any credence.
Unfortuately, until education improves, people will still believe in bronze age nonsense such as ghosts or gods.
I agree with what you said, OP, however I find myself unsure about where I stand on the subject of ghosts. I've had a couple of experiences throughout my life that I don't seem to be able to find a natural explanation for. My strongest experience was a couple of years ago when I was staying at my mom's place, and she, her husband at the time and his two children went down to the store to do some shopping. I decided to stay home alone, and started watching some TV in the basement. Suddenly I heard a loud noise, and as I turned my head into the direction where the noise came from, I saw that a door that was previously closed was open. I usually tried to keep this door closed, because it made me uneasy to see it being open in the corner of my eye. Without thinking much of it, I was just about to get up from the couch to close it, when it slammed shut. I should also make it clear that there were no open windows or anything around me, so it couldn't have been the wind. Now, after slamming shut with a loud bang, it opened itself again, only to slam itself shut again. It kept doing this, and it freaked me out so much that I ran out of the house in my socks and waited for the others to return home.
If ghosts do exist, I don't think they are necessarily dead people. If you believe in different dimensions, perhaps it's something from another dimension slipping into our dimension? Or perhaps it is an unknown entity we simply haven't been able to explain?
I'm just speculating wildly here.
And even if the wind was not the cause, you assume that invisible dead people are the cause? Or "something from another dimmension"? Do you even have any knowledge of the nature of other dimmensions? You are just making stuff up when your own knowledge fails you, further proving my point that peoples' minds fill in the blanks in any way possible, even if it is extremely illogical.
I done 2 out of 3 years of a forensics science course, I literally fucking eat, breath and shit evidence and trust me, just because people believe in it, doesn't make it proof.wikipedia posted:
I'm not sure if you're incapable of understanding what is being said in this thread so I'll strip it to the bare bones and make it as crystal clear as possible.
Faith in the existence of something, does not lend credence to the existence of the idea. This is because the existence of ghosts, faeries and poltergeists etc is not a subjective factor, something can either exist or not, there is no leeway, your belief doesn't make it real or does it become evidence of it's existence.
Considering that the door didn't just merely open and close itself, but that it rather swung open completely, and slammed completely shut, and then opened itself again, it's pretty safe to assume that it was no ordinary draft. Adding onto that, it first opened, and only when I was about to get off the couch did it close. After that it started opening and closing itself at a very fast speed constantly, with no pauses.
I've also experienced other things as I said in my post. Last year I could barely sleep for weeks, because whenever I tried to go to bed, my bed would start shaking a lot, as if someone grabbed a hold of it and shook it. My dad could even hear it shaking from downstairs, and would ask me what was going on in my room.
Again, I'm not directly assuming that this is the result of ghosts (as in dead people or whatever), however I don't have any other explanation for it.
Lack of an explation for something is not proof of a paranormal event. It merely means that those who have experienced it so far lack a proper understanding of the event. I canguarantee you that if you were to get a physics expert to evaluate the swinging door or vibrating bed (two of the most common "paranormal experiences"), a real, scientific explanation would be discovered for these happenings.
Adding speculation to the end of your post is irrelevant and unnecessary if you yourself don't even believe it.