[Banned?]

NEWBIES! SCROLL DOWN UNTIL YOU SEE MORE RED TEXT!!

What is Defense of the Ancients?

Defense of the Ancients is the original map that created the "Action RTS" (ARTS) genre. It started as a map modification in Warcraft III and is now being made into it's own game with Valve using the Source engine. In short, it's a session based, Player vs. Player RPG. Ten people play on two teams of five and each person controls a hero of various ability, utility and strength. As you play in a game your hero will level up, you will gain gold, you'll kill opposing heroes and buy items to become stronger. The ultimate objective is to kill the enemies main structure in the back of their base. This takes teamwork and coordination, not something you can do by yourself as the base is also protected by AI controlled creeps that constantly spawn to defend it and towers meant to hold you back. Matches take anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and when you're finished and start a new game, you pick a new hero and start all over. Nothing is persistant when it comes to something that can affect each game. That sounds simple in description but what has kept people playing it for years now are the complexities of the game.


What is the history behind Defense of the Ancients?

Defense of the Ancients started out a long time ago as a map modification in Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos. It was originally started by someone who went by the name Eul back in 2003. DotA is actually based on an older map from StarCraft called Aeon of Strife. When Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne released, Eul never updated the map. Probably because he went to work for Valve on Half-Life 2 and every title since (see this interview).

Variants of the map were made to replace Eul's version but none really replaced it until Steve Feak, aka Guinsoo, made DotA Allstars. Guinsoo added more heroes, the recepie system for items, and Roshan (Which is named after his bowling ball? Huh.) with his Aeigs of Immortality. He held development of the map for two years and in that time also helped make a central hub for DotA players with Steve Mescon, aka Pendragon, at dota-allstars.com. The website is now debunk since Steve and Steve now work on League of Legends.

In 2005 Guinsoo handed off development to IceFrog, the most reclusive of the DotA developers. IceFrog turned DotA into the highly competitve map it is today. While he regularly updated the map, adding new heroes, items, and fixes over time, the only evidence that he was working on it was the fact that his name was branded on the loading screen. He even refused to do interviews. Eventually he opened up his own blog and then a website, playdota.com, to communicate better with players. PlayDotA is now the central hub for DotA. IceFrog's variation of the map is the most balanced and competitive. DotA didn't become an esport until this version. It's mind boggling to think how over 100 heroes on one map can be balanced to such a point but IceFrog did it and has been doing it for years now.

At some point Valve approached IceFrog with the proposal to make DotA into a full retail game. Robin Walker, Adrian Finol (Eul), and Erik Johnson were all fans of DotA and eventually started talking to IceFrog over e-mail using the fact that they were big game developers (lol). When IceFrog expressed the want to make a sequel that was free of the restrictions in the Warcraft III engine, Valve said "Hey, we've got a great idea! Why don't you come here?" Obviously he said yes.


So what is going to make Dota 2 better than DotA?

I feel like this section is a bit irrelevant but I'm going to rewrite it at some point anyway. Just know that playing DotA on Battle.net sucked balls and playing it in Dota 2 is like a dream.

So how can I play it?

You can't. Yet. Sorta. You can sign up for the beta. More and more people have been getting in every day. The selection is totally random at this point but if you're in the pool you still have a chance to get into the beta.

In the meantime, they also lifted the NDA. People in the beta can talk about it, post screenshots, and stream. If you want to watch some streams check Twitch.tv or own3d.tv. There is a website dedicated to streams for Dota 2, StreamDota2.com. You can also check Reddit's Dota 2 subreddit for news and screenshots and stuff like that. You can also watch all the matched from Valve's Dota 2 reveal tournament, The International. It's a spectacular series and shows off the game very well.


Coming from League of Legends? Read this.

Written by Zorus...

Like LoL, but a lot more unforgiving.

*Abilities don't scale with items, with the exception of a certain item increasing the damage on certain ultimates.
*There is no AD or AP as in LoL, just three attributes which give health/health regen, mana/mana regen, and attack speed/armor.
*Also there doesn't appear to be any sort of fixed metagame, unlike League with its standard bruiser top, caster mid, support/carry bot and jungler.
*Every hero uses mana as a resource.
*There is no combine cost for some items, but there are items called recipes which you must buy in order to complete certain items.
*CC is much more brutal, with fifteen second silences and five second stuns.
*You can control more than one unit, players control their own hero and a courier, and some heroes can summon units that they control. In League there's things like Tibbers, and Shaco clones, but to control those you can only hold alt and move the unit.
*Upon death, you lose gold. Killing a hero will not decrease their value. Bounties are pretty much the same thing, also exp reward from kills is much greater
*You can kill your own creeps when they are under 50% hp, only with autoattacks and certain skills, this is called denying and stops a hero from killing the creep for gold, while also decreasing the exp gain from the creep.
*Trees and elevation which can be used to advantage
*Day/Night system, some heroes get stronger during the night (and day?)
*A lot of mids gank, whereas in LoL mid normally doesn't gank/would gain more benefit from staying in lane
*LoL level cap is 18 and you can only level abilities, each ability can be levelled to 5. In Dota, level cap is 25, and you can add +2 to attributes as well as level abilities to 4 and ultimates to 3, not every hero only has 3 standard skills, also the hotkeys are different for each hero (however in Dota 2 the ability hotkeys are standard QWER with some heroes having more skills that extend to d and f)
*Certain heroes have more vision range than others.
*Wards last longer
*Neutral creeps do not give buffs, the equivalent to Baron drops an item which is the equivalent to Guardian Angel's passive, and also Cheese on third death
*Two runespots, runes are items that can be taken instantly, or bottled (with an item) to be used for later, runes can double damage, make two clones of your hero, (which take and deal less damage) stealth, increase movespeed, or regenerate hp and mana greatly
*Lane creeps give a lot more gold than in LoL
*Unit collision is more important
*Different types of shops, there's a unified base shop in Dota 2 but in Dota they were segmented, a secret shop in the jungle on both sides, and a sidelane shop
*To return to base you must either walk or purchase an item that allows you to teleport to allied structures, in other words, no global recall spell
*Towers deal less damage but fire faster, the last hit on a tower will reward extra gold, towers can be denied to the enemy team just as creeps can
*No runepages/summoner spells
*No bushes

and that's about it. I've played both games, switched to LoL for a long time and now I'm playing Dota 2. Some negligible things are that lane creeps are pretty damn big compared to hero units, and nomenclature of heroes isn't always standard. In LoL most heroes are called by name (Malzahar, the Prophet of the Void) whereas in Dota, you refer to a hero mostly by their occupation/title. Yurnero the Juggernaut, Krobelus the Death Prophet. Some exceptions like Zeus the Lord of Olympia or Rikimaru the Stealth Assassin.

Coming from Heroes of Newerth? Read this.

HoN has a very close relation to DotA, at least in it's early life. Over time its changed its but it still retains a lot of likeness and it the closest game to DotA between it and LoL. It does have it's differences thought. The HoN Wiki has a pages dedicated to what is the same and what is different between DotA and it. Check it here: http://honwiki.net/wiki/DotA_vs_HoN


Fucking helpful resources!!!
Welcome to DotA. You suck! A must read for newbies.
How to play Dota 2 in 4 Minutes A must watch for newbies.
Ultimate Guide to Warding If you don't read this guide and take close notes you're a terrible, bad person.
Dota 2 Wiki One of the best reference sites you'll find. Pretty much up to date within the hour of a new patch.
The Guide section of PlayDotA Sort by rating. Use the highest rated guides. Still applicable to Dota 2.
PSA! JUNGLING ETIQUETTE
PSA! SUPPORT ITEMS AND YOU
PSA! U-U-U-UTILITY PART 1
PSA! U-U-U-UTILITY PART 2
PSA! GO AROUND AND KILL
PSA! SO YOU THINK YOU CAN CARRY PART 1
PSA! SO YOU THINK YOU CAN CARRY PART 2
PSA! AREA OF INFLUENCE
PSA! POWER TO THE PUSHER
PSA! SUPPORT OUR SUPPORTS
PSA! ROAM AGAINST THE MACHINE
Reddit "Hero Discussion of the Day" Top voted posts generally have valuable info about the hero.

Archive
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[BeardyDuck]

please make a note not to post pubstomp pics thx

[Banhfunbags]

http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen...s_in_the_beta/
neat

[BackSapper]

Fresh Thread, smells nice.

[Haxxer]

here

[BeardyDuck]

lerp is orange, you're dropping packets and wasting processing power.

[l l]

informative post incoming, all the hero relationships (good read imo)

[Tokagero]

It's Warcraft III family tree. We could make a new one once all the heroes are released.

I like it how Valve makes all bio's interesting and fitting, while keeping some connections. Dota's world is nice mix of cultures, myths and stories, supported by things like demon alliance (Nevermore and Lucifer) that brought down Shadow Demon.

[Haxxer]

ballin with skeleton king

[Maruhai]

You used my title.

[Gate]

from the other thread

Belivo posted:

Just won a game as Warlock when we were loosing hard in the earlygame.
The very second I told SF to blink in and ult after I ult and Q them, we won a fight and pushed bottom racks right away, because Golem's pushing power too stronk. The fights from thereafter were just them running away after Golem-bomb and soulburst from SF.

Now that I checked their team setup, they had no teamfighting power aside from CM, other were Naix, Pudge, Invo who left and Enchantress, while we had Bloodseeker who failed his earlygame, Me as Wlock, SF, Pugna and Silencer. (May be the reason why invo left, lol)

Also, I nominate Upheaval as the best non-ultimate spell in the game.

warlock is just so good, fatal bonds is gamebreaking, golems have a long cast range and a wide area and upheaval is awesome

i, as a newbie, dont understand why he isnt picked in competitive (that speechless face from tobi and synderen when he got picked...)

[The Mighty Boat]

Hero with the lowest winrate: Alchemist (39,7%)

not surprising at all tbh, alchemist is the one hero i have never seen a pubbie play well

[Tokagero]

The Mighty Boat posted:

Hero with the lowest winrate: Alchemist (39,7%)

not surprising at all tbh, alchemist is the one hero i have never seen a pubbie play well

*cough* Morph *cough*

Honestly, that farm dependance.

[The Mighty Boat]

Tokagero posted:

*cough* Morph *cough*

Honestly, that farm dependance.

ive seen a good morph, but no good alchemists

Edited:

i actually had a morph on my team rush a skadi fucking fast as hell and carry the game for us

[Tulio]

Woohoo, got myself a full game!

[Tokagero]

The Mighty Boat posted:

ive seen a good morph, but no good alchemists

Edited:

i actually had a morph on my team rush a skadi fucking fast as hell and carry the game for us

Now that's funny, considering Alchemist can potentially gain insane amounts of money with proper lane situation. Morph has his Wave Form to escape death sentences, but Alchemist has Stun that is realiable if chaser decides to continue on and his ultimate makes him both quick and buffy.

I think it's just people not realising that if Alchemist is given 10 minutes of good farm early, he can be geared as if it's late midgame. When you see Morph, you instantly think "This guy needs farm and he will be monster". Hell, I've seen pubs ask Morph players if they would like a tri-lane just for them.

Alchemist, not so much.

[Lefter]

I really like Clockwerk, but my win lose ratio with it is 0/5. I can't hook. Its one of the best potentialed ganking heroes i think, with its cogs and rockets, but i never manage to kill a hero with it.

[Haxxer]

ns has way better potential

see: all of dota

[Maruhai]

Dota 2 - "Newbies, don't beg for keys. Veterans, get two more keys."

[Eonart]

i have one key left with me if anybody wants it

pm me so that this thread isn't filled

edit: key taken

[Tokagero]

Lefter posted:

I really like Clockwerk, but my win lose ratio with it is 0/5. I can't hook. Its one of the best potentialed ganking heroes i think, with its cogs and rockets, but i never manage to kill a hero with it.

Actually, his flare and Hook are the greatest abilities for ganking purpose. Rockets require you to stay close, yet you don't have any in-built speed steroid (thus relying on good cage or hook) and cogs are very much tricky with any quick/blinking opponent.

Now, flare can be this "holy shit, I didn't they had that much nuke" thing. Imagine line with Lich(or any support with nuke), any hero with some targetable damaging spell (Skeleton King will suffice) and Clockwerk mid.

1. Lane Lich/SK harasses single enemy hero the most, at some point keeping him at 300/400 hp.
2. When this occurs, ask Clockwerk to shoot at your lane, somewhat behind enemies in case they start running.
3. Throw both nukes on target and chase.
4. Flare hits.
5. ????
6. Profit!


And hook with Agh is pretty much 1/4 of global teleport or so. Just add creeps.

[The Mighty Boat]

Tokagero posted:

Now that's funny, considering Alchemist can potentially gain insane amounts of money with proper lane situation. Morph has his Wave Form to escape death sentences, but Alchemist has Stun that is realiable if chaser decides to continue on and his ultimate makes him both quick and buffy.

I think it's just people not realising that if Alchemist is given 10 minutes of good farm early, he can be geared as if it's late midgame. When you see Morph, you instantly think "This guy needs farm and he will be monster". Hell, I've seen pubs ask Morph players if they would like a tri-lane just for them.

Alchemist, not so much.

alchemist has been considered kind of a shitty hero by the community in general for a while now. im not saying its justified, but it does change the people who actually play him. i very rarely see alch in my games (morph even less so), and when i do its always some idiot whos probably thrown more games than stuns

[Acrono]

I've only played with an alchemist twice. First time he was on the enemy team and we ended up losing (this was really early when I started Dota 2). The other time I was going to choose a hero to go mid, another guy insta-locks Alchemist and immediately says "going MID". Sure enough he carried really hard and we won.

[vui]

Ah new thread smell, you can't beat it. How about if we post pics where we've been stomped? jk

[lionheart1066]

The feel of joy when the enemy team rage quits because a support gets first blood and a killing spree.

Had riki kept on level 4 until the laning phase was over.

[Takuat]

I'm so fucking terrible at this game. I've read and watched the guides in the OP but I'm still absolute dog shit. Can somebody please explain ganking to me because everyone including the bots uses this term and I have no idea what it means.

[Maruhai]

Takuat posted:

I'm so fucking terrible at this game. I've read and watched the guides in the OP but I'm still absolute dog shit. Can somebody please explain ganking to me because everyone including the bots uses this term and I have no idea what it means.

Catching an enemy hero off gard and raping him with the help of your teammates.
The ganker is the guy that will go on the enemy without being expected by the enemy himself.

[Mech Bgum]

Takuat posted:

I'm so fucking terrible at this game. I've read and watched the guides in the OP but I'm still absolute dog shit.

decision making is a key, it will come with experience.

[Pernoccuous]

Takuat posted:

I'm so fucking terrible at this game. I've read and watched the guides in the OP but I'm still absolute dog shit. Can somebody please explain ganking to me because everyone including the bots uses this term and I have no idea what it means.

surprise anal the dota way

except to death

[Rats808]

Takuat posted:

I'm so fucking terrible at this game. I've read and watched the guides in the OP but I'm still absolute dog shit. Can somebody please explain ganking to me because everyone including the bots uses this term and I have no idea what it means.

Ganking = Any number of heroes attacking a smaller group of heroes and killing them, usually using the element of surprise.

E.G., Early game, you're in a dual lane against 2 other heroes, and whoever is mid comes to your lane. One of you throws out a stun at one of the enemy heroes, then you all three jump on him and get a kill.

Could also be, late game, you notice an enemy carry farming a creep wave all by himself, with his team on the other side of the map. You and at least one ally head up there and jump him, then kill him and waltz away with a free kill.

[titopei]

Maruhai posted:

Dota 2 - "Newbies, get two more keys. Veterans, don't complain about not getting extra keys."

ftfy

Edited:

This. You might call it wasting everyone's time, but if match is still going on and there are no rules about surrendering like in Tournaments, then I love to fight till the end. Hell, some people enjoy being faced against "doomed" defence, it's advantageous vs desperate (or, as this is a videogame, "more focused").

Personally when I'm in a situation like that then I usually get bored. I lack the motivation when the odds are stacked against me unless there is still a chance to actually come back. It's especially worse when people on your team are like "Ok let me go brb in the fountain, no reason to play this game" I used to be like that when I saw an AM 1v5 my team since he got fed but his team left so it took us 10+ minutes to finish off his base. Guess it wore off.

[Tokagero]

2 games in a row.
2 times I random Invoker.
1st game I go mid and do well despite not having single idea of what's going on and in teamfights slapping keyboard senseless yet winning.
2nd game I feed early Ursa 3 or so kills and proceed to help team shut him down and win because of Zeus quitter character.

My brain is full of orbs.

[RagerTrader]

The Mighty Boat posted:

alchemist has been considered kind of a shitty hero by the community in general for a while now. im not saying its justified, but it does change the people who actually play him. i very rarely see alch in my games (morph even less so), and when i do its always some idiot whos probably thrown more games than stuns

I went 6-1-20 as Alchy last night, first time playing him.

Unstable Concoction should NEVER be underestimated.

[Banned?]

Alch used to be my favorite character to mess around with but they changed how UC worked between when I stopped playing and now.

[Rats808]

titopei posted:

ftfy

Edited:



Personally when I'm in a situation like that then I usually get bored. I lack the motivation when the odds are stacked against me unless there is still a chance to actually come back. It's especially worse when people on your team are like "Ok let me go brb in the fountain, no reason to play this game" I used to be like that when I saw an AM 1v5 my team since he got fed but his team left so it took us 10+ minutes to finish off his base. Guess it wore off.

If they just go AFK in the fountain and the enemy team isn't already in your base, destroying everything and killing everybody, report them.

If the game really is over, as in all that's left is Ancient towers and the ancient, then it's completely justifiable to sit in the fountain to avoid giving them more kills than they already have.

Edited:

Every time there's an Alch in a game, they're either on the enemy team and land every single UC at max duration, or they're on my team and think it works like any other stun, where they can just tap the key and click, which leads to them stunning themselves.

[Tokagero]

Banned? posted:

Alch used to be my favorite character to mess around with but they changed how UC worked between when I stopped playing and now.

What changed ?

[Hobbax]

Earthshaker divine rapier use to kill bane :D

[Badunkadunk]

I just wish you could target creeps with the concoction.

[Rediscover]

hi i play dota 2

[Tokagero]

Badunkadunk posted:

I just wish you could target creeps with the concoction.

Then it would be a bit too easy to shake off, especially in lane.

That's the art of Alchemist, being able to keep sight of your target and time the bomb. If you can't do it right, I suggest playing with Slardar or Bounty Hunter or Night Stalker(with Agh) etc.