[FlubberNugget]

This whole thing just seems really stupid to me. Currently by nature I only masturbate once every few weeks for good health, and I'm far from addicted to porn.
This is subject to only some people, some just get addicted to some things a lot easier than some do, but you can overcome this in a far better way than abstinence (which in my experience does fawg all)
Too much of anything is bad for you, but too little of some things is also bad.

[RoflKawpter]

Well, I'm signing up for it. Wish me luck.


Fuck.

[Disseminate]

SilverBullet posted:

Yet I look at porn several times a day. Having a hard time stopping something does not define an addiction. You contradict yourself in what you say, you said that I can't tell how much dopamine I feel unless I have a gauge on the side of my head, but you say you will get more dopamine out of the simpler pleasures in life, but how will I tell if I can't feel it.

Yeah, that's actually the definition of addiction.

You don't get more dopamine, you get more of the effect of dopamine. Quitting porn isn't a spot treatment, it's a chronic medication.

SilverBullet posted:

And your saying I can masturbate all I want? But not look at some images? And somehow it will make a huge difference? I'm sorry but that sounds really stupid.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, and that's what the research is saying ("some" images being in the hundreds or thousands). You can use "some" images - just ask any male over thirty how they did it.

[MegaPear]

Just one more time then I'll stop.

[Dr. Evilcop]

Not giving up porn, but I should definitely watch less of it.

[SilverBullet]

Disseminate posted:

Yeah, that's actually the definition of addiction.

You don't get more dopamine, you get more of the effect of dopamine. Quitting porn isn't a spot treatment, it's a chronic medication.



Yeah, that's what I'm saying, and that's what the research is saying ("some" images being in the hundreds or thousands). You can use "some" images - just ask any male over thirty how they did it.

That's wrong, I have a hard time stopping my breathing, doesn't mean I'm addicted to breathing.

And getting more dopamine, and getting more of the effect of dopamine are the same thing. You can't get more dopamine without the effect of dopamine and you cant get the effect of dopamine without dopamine.

[MountainWatcher]

ryandaniels posted:

When I say death, I'm not talking about when your heart stops beating and your brain dies. I'm talking about the absence of life.

Life, being when you love and trust yourself enough to let your logic, creativity, and passion go free.


To control oneself is destruction of oneself in that it is destruction of your relationship with yourself. Make no mistake; controlling and disciplining yourself is a sleight on an entity that does, functionally, exist. And as it would with a relationship with a person you were intimately close with, it only serves to estrange and distance that person from yourself. Eventually, these acts will create a certain sickness of the soul; I imagine this happens once you truly realize you'll never be free of your own fear and self loathing.

You do know that the only reason society managed to exist is because you've stopped yourself from going around raping and generally committing dumb shit. And when the hell does "you" come into play? When I stop myself, "I" am doing it, why the hell do natural urges get the right of way?

[Shadaez]

This isn't a debate thread. Is it really that bad for you knowing that someone, somewhere, thinks negatively toward something that you enjoy? Some people may stand to benefit from not watching porn, nobody is making you stop. If you're really that insecure about your porn watching that you need to go into an anti-porn thread to tell people, "I DISAGREE!", you probably do have a problem (God forbit someone take your internet boobies away :( ). Same type of crap happens in any thread where the word vegan, vegetarian, or PETA, mishappens to pop up. No, your views aren't going to change anyone's mind that has already decided to at least try this. I'm pretty sure we're doing it because we're open minded, and you aren't because you're not.

[nmagain]

count me in i wanna see how long i'll last.

[SilverBullet]

MountainWatcher posted:

You do know that the only reason society managed to exist is because you've stopped yourself from going around raping and generally committing dumb shit. And when the hell does "you" come into play? When I stop myself, "I" am doing it, why the hell do natural urges get the right of way?

You are getting moral urges to stop yourself, are you not?

[Disseminate]

SilverBullet posted:

That's wrong, I have a hard time stopping my breathing, doesn't mean I'm addicted to breathing.

And getting more dopamine, and getting more of the effect of dopamine are the same thing. You can't get more dopamine without the effect of dopamine and you cant get the effect of dopamine without dopamine.

According to Wikipedia,

the term addiction is used to describe a recurring compulsion by an individual to engage in some specific activity, despite harmful consequences, as deemed by the user themselves to their individual health, mental state, or social life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addicti...oral_addiction

Dopamine is not positive emotion in itself. Dopamine quantity in your brain doesn't affect your general happiness in life - it's the regulation of dopamine that does.

[SilverBullet]

Shadaez posted:

This isn't a debate thread. Is it really that bad for you knowing that someone, somewhere, thinks negatively toward something that you enjoy? Some people may stand to benefit from not watching porn, nobody is making you stop. If you're really that insecure about your porn watching that you need to go into an anti-porn thread to tell people, "I DISAGREE!", you probably do have a problem (God forbit someone take your internet boobies away :( ). Same type of crap happens in any thread where the word vegan, vegetarian, or PETA, mishappens to pop up. No, your views aren't going to change anyone's mind that has already decided to at least try this. I'm pretty sure we're doing it because we're open minded, and you aren't because you're not.

So speaking your mind in an insignificant online thread means you have a problem?

[Broryt]

I will regret this, but I'm in.

[SilverBullet]

Disseminate posted:

According to Wikipedia,



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addicti...oral_addiction

Dopamine is not positive emotion in itself. Dopamine quantity in your brain doesn't affect your general happiness in life - it's the regulation of dopamine that does.

Wow you proved yourself wrong. You said that not being able to stop is the definition of an addiction,
then you give me a definition that doesn't even say that.

Dopamine regulation is how well dopamine is excreted and received regularly right? I see what you mean, but I WAS talking about how much you feel that dopamine when it is excreted. Like I said before you can't get more dopamine(excretion) without the effect of dopamine and you cant get the effect of dopamine without dopamine(excretion).

[Disseminate]

SilverBullet posted:

So speaking your mind in an insignificant online thread means you have a problem?

He's saying that you're wasting your time.

Broryt posted:

I will regret this, but I'm in.

Hopefully you won't.

Edited:

SilverBullet posted:

Wow you proved yourself wrong. You said that not being able to stop is the definition of an addiction,
then you give me a definition that doesn't even say that.

You clearly weren't addicted if you suddenly had no apparent compulsion to use porn via willpower alone.

[MountainWatcher]

Shadaez posted:

This isn't a debate thread. Is it really that bad for you knowing that someone, somewhere, thinks negatively toward something that you enjoy? Some people may stand to benefit from not watching porn, nobody is making you stop. If you're really that insecure about your porn watching that you need to go into an anti-porn thread to tell people, "I DISAGREE!", you probably do have a problem (God forbit someone take your internet boobies away :( ). Same type of crap happens in any thread where the word vegan, vegetarian, or PETA, mishappens to pop up. No, your views aren't going to change anyone's mind that has already decided to at least try this. I'm pretty sure we're doing it because we're open minded, and you aren't because you're not.

Hahaha, wow. That has got to be the most self-entitled post I have seen in a while.
First off, the people arguing this are doing it for your own fucking sake. They are doing this because they want to find what the truth is, so you know what's more healthy. Kinda like how every fucking discussion works.
And open minded? Really? is that your excuse? Alright, I devoted myself to killing people and sacrificing them to Mutumbu, my followers are doing it because they're open minded. if you WERE open minded, you would be open to our fucking criticism, too.
Seriously, you can't pull the opinion card on a bloody matter of medicine.

By the way, if we're so full of issues for trying to get you to stop something, why are YOU trying to do the same with us? Why is there a thread? Why are there posts defending your point? Why is the post I'm replying to existent at all?

[Johnny Guitar]

fuck it, just broke up with my girlfriend

might as well.

[MountainWatcher]

SilverBullet posted:

You are getting moral urges to stop yourself, are you not?

I don't see your point.

Edited:

My merge

[ewitwins]

Fuck it, may as well give it a try.

[SilverBullet]

MountainWatcher posted:

I don't see your point.

You said "why the hell do natural urges get the right of way?" Morality is a natural thing in this day and age. In reality your moral urges are no more valuable than your animal urges. It's preference really.

Edited:

Disseminate posted:

He's saying that you're wasting your time.



Hopefully you won't.

Edited:



You clearly weren't addicted if you suddenly had no apparent compulsion to use porn via willpower alone.

No I wanted to do it, but I didn't. That does not mean it was hard at all.

[Disseminate]

SilverBullet posted:

You said "why the hell do natural urges get the right of way?" Morality is a natural thing in this day and age. In reality your moral urges are no more valuable than your animal urges. It's preference really.

Edited:


No I wanted to do it, but I didn't. That does not mean it was hard at all.

What are you even arguing right now? Morality isn't a natural urge that dopamine rewards.

Right, the same way you want to play a video game but don't have to. You aren't addicted to video games, and you weren't addicted to porn.

[PrivRyan]

I'm signing up for this OP.
Time to try this again.

[SilverBullet]

Disseminate posted:

What are you even arguing right now? Morality isn't a natural urge that dopamine rewards.

Right, the same way you want to play a video game but don't have to. You aren't addicted to video games, and you weren't addicted to porn.

Nobody HAS to do anything, even if your addicted, unless you are saying that withdrawal defines addiction, withdrawal in some drugs can kill you, that's when you HAVE to do it. And isn't doing the right thing sometimes one of those "little pleasures in life"?
And not all animal urges are rewarded with dopamine either. If I get the urge to attack someone or something that doesn't really make me feel good at all if/when I do it.

[No Party Hats]

brother put me on the list LET'S FUCKING DO THIS

[MountainWatcher]

SilverBullet posted:

You said "why the hell do natural urges get the right of way?" Morality is a natural thing in this day and age. In reality your moral urges are no more valuable than your animal urges. It's preference really.

Edited:


No I wanted to do it, but I didn't. That does not mean it was hard at all.

Natural is what comes from nature. If you to go into free will and determinism, fine by me, but if you do that, both physiological brain mechanisms and conscious choices are pitted into the same bag, it only makes my argument stronger.
it is by controlling one-self that we can do anything. genes gives us the canvas, logic is what stops us from turning that canvas into child pornography.

[SilverBullet]

MountainWatcher posted:

Natural is what comes from nature. If you to go into free will and determinism, fine by me, but if you do that, both physiological brain mechanisms and conscious choices are pitted into the same bag, it only makes my argument stronger.
it is by controlling one-self that we can do anything. genes gives us the canvas, logic is what stops us from turning that canvas into child pornography.

No, MORALITY is what stops us from stuff like that, not logic,
morality and logic are both natural, there is nothing in this world that isn't natural.
And feeling to control one's self is also a natural urge.
I'm gonna go, cya guys.

[Spycrabz]

Count me in.

[Shadaez]

MountainWatcher posted:

Someone has views I don't agree with? BETTER TELL THEM WHAT I THINK ABOUT IT

How dare I come into the no porn thread and say that not using porn isn't bad!

[Cructo]

I'm in, I guess

[Disseminate]

SilverBullet posted:

Nobody HAS to do anything, even if your addicted, unless you are saying that withdrawal defines addiction, withdrawal in some drugs can kill you, that's when you HAVE to do it. And isn't doing the right thing sometimes one of those "little pleasures in life"?
And not all animal urges are rewarded with dopamine either. If I get the urge to attack someone or something that doesn't really make me feel good at all if/when I do it.

OK so let me summarize everything you've said about your experiences with porn, quitting it, and the people in this thread.
- You were addicted to porn, felt compulsion to keep using it after quitting, but didn't because the compulsion was simply ignored with a snap of your fingers. You now watch porn several times per day.
- You can't seem to place the definition of addiction
- Moral reasoning is on parallel with eating chocolate and sexuality in terms of natural instinct
- Amount of dopamine available in the brain is directly proportional to amount of happiness
- People who are clean for two weeks don't have an addiction, which is a paradox because they clearly have an addiction
- You think it "sounds really stupid"
- You think there's no need to separate masturbation and porn as being two different subjects, and think not masturbating has the same effects as not watching porn
- You live in the now and don't see any point to saving your marshmallows for later

Am I right so far?

Anyways, you're right in that "nobody HAS to do anything", in the sense that nobody HAS to breathe.
A moral choice is not the same as altruism, which is a simple pleasure.
The urge to attack something leads to eating it, which causes dopamine release, just as browsing to a porn site leads to porn. You don't get anything from typing in the URL.

[MountainWatcher]

SilverBullet posted:

No, MORALITY is what stops us from stuff like that, not logic,
morality and logic are both natural, there is nothing in this world that isn't natural.
And feeling to control one's self is also a natural urge.

Agreed to that, that was pretty much my argument.

But morality is what we should do. And we should do what is moral because moral is what we should do. From a proposition, you can derive a logical argument. Any thought(implied or conscious) is a logical construct.

Let me add a better argument

A implies A, for every A

Edited:

Shadaez posted:

How dare I come into the no porn thread and say that not using porn isn't bad!

YOU'RE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING

Why are you replying to me, if meddling in other's beliefs is wrong?

[Disseminate]

SilverBullet posted:

No, MORALITY is what stops us from stuff like that, not logic,
morality and logic are both natural, there is nothing in this world that isn't natural.
And feeling to control one's self is also a natural urge.
I'm gonna go, cya guys.

Morality is a subset of logic in the sense that most forms of morality are to avoid punishment and appeal to authority to gain something, while the other forms of morality are cognitive reasoning.

Cigarettes are natural too by your logic, but it doesn't mean they're good for you.

Bye, thanks for the debate.

[Electroholic]

SilverBullet posted:

Nobody HAS to do anything, even if your addicted.

I don't think you quite understand the concept of what an addiction is.

People don't "have" to do anything. An addiction is when people subconsciously do things out of habit simply because their brain leads them to it. Nobody says "I'm addicted to nicotine, better go have a smoke." They simply have a smoke because it is a natural habit they have developed.

[Wealth + Taste]

Sign me up. I'm starting tonight. If OP's video is indeed not full of shit, I may have found a way to stop my current depression.

[ewitwins]

If we have a list of people trying, we need to have a failure list as well for people who attempt it and screw up

[CaptainQuirk]

Lets do this!

[Electroholic]

ewitwins posted:

If we have a list of people trying, we need to have a failure list as well for people who attempt it and screw up

look in the OP:

[Shadaez]

MountainWatcher posted:

Agreed to that, that was pretty much my argument.

But morality is what we should do. And we should do what is moral because moral is what we should do. From a proposition, you can derive a logical argument. Any thought(implied or conscious) is a logical construct.

Edited:



YOU'RE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING

Why are you replying to me, if meddling in other's beliefs is wrong?

I understand what you're saying, but really you sound like such a redditor right now. I was mostly speaking of Wolfie13. Being hyperbolic is fun, and I was partly doing that.

[MountainWatcher]

Shadaez posted:

I understand what you're saying, but really you sound like such a redditor right now. I was mostly speaking of Wolfie13. Being hyperbolic is fun, and I was partly doing that.

What do you mean being such a redditor?

[Shadaez]

MountainWatcher posted:

What do you mean being such a redditor?

It's just what it sounds like: someone from reddit. So, basically just means an all around awful person, usually racist, misogynist, and/or homophobic.