1. Post #1
    Gold Member
    DarthTealc's Avatar
    October 2007
    491 Posts
    I have a few questions about the cheaters.cfg file which appears to contain 300+ Sethhack users' Steam IDs and bans them.
    Garry might be the only one able to answer some of these.

    How was this list compiled? Was it received from some random server (which could have false positives or could include people they dislike)? Or was it generated by Gmod itself and sent to Garry to include with this update?
    I'm concerned the list could include people who haven't cheated, if it was provided to Garry from a random server. Gmod itself should do the detection and send that to Garry - that way we know it is valid and doesn't include people a particular server dislikes.

    Will the list be updated over time with more IDs? Will these IDs be collected the same way as in the above question, or will it come from another source (eg other random servers)?

    Is there a way to manually exclude someone from the list on a community I administrate?
    One of our moderators is in the list (we already knew he had Sethhack), but he doesn't use it on our servers (verified by our own Sethhack detection system, which has logged others but not him).
    In addition, one of our administrators has Sethhack which he uses to help us develop and test our hack detection system (for Sethhack and other assorted hacks). He isn't on the list (yet).
    We do not want to lose these people, so I'd really like to be able to manually exclude specific Steam IDs on our servers.
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    dingusnin's Avatar
    February 2010
    1,991 Posts
    This is my case, where i am now banend of All servers for playing the game lawfully. This is just one big joke, Seriously.
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  3. Post #3
    garry's Avatar
    September 2001
    12,369 Posts
    It's not wise to reveal how it works publically - for obvious reasons.

    The list that went out yesterday went out accidentally. People shouldn't have started getting banned yet - those are some of the ID's on the watch list.

    Since the cat is out of the bag It'll be updated tonight with some of those bans removed, and with the system active.
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  4. Post #4
    $YOUTOOB$ $MONIES$
    Mr Derp's Avatar
    June 2011
    138 Posts
    I've sent you an email about the list Garry, would really appreciate if you could give it a read.
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    DarthTealc's Avatar
    October 2007
    491 Posts
    It's not wise to reveal how it works publically - for obvious reasons.
    [..] those are some of the ID's on the watch list.
    Without revealing how it works, can you confirm the method is reliable and not subject to 3rd party influences? (eg it isn't a ban list recorded by a particular community).

    I just want to know the list is 100% trustworthy (once you've made it active), or if we should consider the possibility that some of these people haven't been hacking. I can't trust the list if it has been given to you by some random community who could easily forge logs to put people they dislike on it. But I'm happy to trust it if it has been compiled by you and your own detection systems (or Valve if they are involved).
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  6. Post #6

    April 2011
    16 Posts
    Is it only SethHack that gets you on the list? Or is it all aimbot/ESP type hacks?
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  7. Post #7
    garry's Avatar
    September 2001
    12,369 Posts
    Without revealing how it works, can you confirm the method is reliable and not subject to 3rd party influences? (eg it isn't a ban list recorded by a particular community).

    I just want to know the list is 100% trustworthy (once you've made it active), or if we should consider the possibility that some of these people haven't been hacking. I can't trust the list if it has been given to you by some random community who could easily forge logs to put people they dislike on it. But I'm happy to trust it if it has been compiled by you and your own detection systems (or Valve if they are involved).
    I don't know how you expect me to answer this. "No, the way we ban SteamID's is unreliable and anyone can get banned for no reason at all because the system is shit"?
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  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    S31-Syntax's Avatar
    October 2007
    9,812 Posts
    I don't know how you expect me to answer this. "No, the way we ban SteamID's is unreliable and anyone can get banned for no reason at all because the system is shit"?
    What I think he wants assurance on is that its not handled like other SH banlists that have influence from random people.

    I.E.
    Player A plays on a server, does something, Player B gets pissy and complains to Community, Community adds Player A to SH Ban List because Player B said A was using it despite having no proof of use or even ownership of SH.
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  9. Post #9
    What I think he wants assurance on is that its not handled like other SH banlists that have influence from random people.

    I.E.
    Player A plays on a server, does something, Player B gets pissy and complains to Community, Community adds Player A to SH Ban List because Player B said A was using it despite having no proof of use or even ownership of SH.
    Garry can do far more than what communities can do to detect SH. I'm fairly sure he wouldn't put anything in that could have a huge margin of error.
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  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    S31-Syntax's Avatar
    October 2007
    9,812 Posts
    Garry can do far more than what communities can do to detect SH. I'm fairly sure he wouldn't put anything in that could have a huge margin of error.
    Well assurance should be easy to come by then.
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  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    LtShinySides's Avatar
    November 2011
    147 Posts
    I hope all the stupid cheaters crash and burn. Garry I applaud you for taking the time to do this. One step closer to kicking all the cheaters in the muff.
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  12. Post #12

    June 2011
    29 Posts
    lol'd
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  13. Post #13
    JamieH is a retarded bitch <3
    Pantho's Avatar
    July 2008
    2,189 Posts
    Hows this list going to work? Is it updated when the server iniates?
    Updated only when gmod updates?

    Either way surely you could just remove a banid from the server.cfg file or simply empty it and make it read only. I'm sure Garry will make it optional to have activated on a server anyway. Having it mandatory wouldn't be good.

    Although I will have it activated on all my servers, but having it mandatory wouldn't feel right.
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  14. Post #14
    Dennab
    January 2008
    121 Posts
    Not sure if it's just my old version of ULX, but when it tries to write the hundreds of SteamID's from memory to banned_user.cfg, this happens and the server crashes

    Code:
    (ADMIN) -=[UH]=- Gen. HeX banned STEAM_0:1:46527909 permanently for "Speedhack"
    Writing cfg/banned_user.cfg.
    Writing cfg/banned_user.cfg.
    Giving mohdal a jump_stick
    Cbuf_AddText: buffer overflow
    Cbuf_AddText: buffer overflow
    Cbuf_AddText: buffer overflow
    Cbuf_AddText: buffer overflow
    Cbuf_AddText: buffer overflow
    -snip hundreds of these-
    *crash*
    I've since deleted "cheaters.cfg" and written my own ban system.
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  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    Hentie's Avatar
    May 2010
    2,129 Posts
    You also seem to have some duplicate steamID's on the list.
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  16. Post #16
    shirly's Avatar
    May 2009
    32 Posts
    So my question is, are people who bought and use SH purely for anti-cheating purposes gonna get unfairly banned now?
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  17. Post #17
    PROUD BRONY 4LYFE
    Drakehawke's Avatar
    February 2009
    3,312 Posts
    So my question is, are people who bought and use SH purely for anti-cheating purposes gonna get unfairly banned now?
    From what garrys said, I don't think he's detecting everyone who uses GMod, it looks like he's using community hack ban lists, adding them to a "watch-list" and then if they're on that list checking if they have a hack on the next time they play GMod. Presumably if you bought SH purely for anti-cheating purposes you wouldn't be banned from someone elses community for it.
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    Lexic's Avatar
    March 2009
    6,123 Posts
    Out of interest, how does buying and using a hack prevent others from cheating?
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  19. Post #19
    garry's Avatar
    September 2001
    12,369 Posts
    So my question is, are people who bought and use SH purely for anti-cheating purposes gonna get unfairly banned now?
    Yes. I'm not going to detect that you have a cheat installed and then contact you and ask you if you were using it to cheat. I'm going to assume you were cheating - because it's a cheat.
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  20. Post #20
    boxxyy's Avatar
    February 2012
    38 Posts
    Yes. I'm not going to detect that you have a cheat installed and then contact you and ask you if you were using it to cheat. I'm going to assume you were cheating - because it's a cheat.
    Because clearly you detected it with some sort of anticheat that you made even though it doesn't even detect everyone who uses it, only people who were banned by anticheats on specific servers. Right?
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  21. Post #21
    tayburks2's Avatar
    October 2009
    20 Posts
    From my sense, it seems garry can't go outside the garrysmod directory in your steam directory...

    So how is this possible with detecting if you have a "cheat installed"?

    People can make LUA cheats. What if it detects a 'cheat' when if it really wasn't a cheat?
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  22. Post #22
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,432 Posts
    If you dont cheat - You have nothing to argue about, nor be worried.

    If you do cheat - I'm sorry that you lost the game. You broke ToS and thus, are punished properly.
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  23. Post #23

    April 2012
    4 Posts
    What makes you decide to put someone on the ban list or the watched list?
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  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    highvoltage's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,763 Posts
    What makes you decide to put someone on the ban list or the watched list?
    He won't say because he doesn't want anyone to have an idea how to bypass it.
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  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    jordguitar's Avatar
    July 2007
    11,053 Posts
    What makes you decide to put someone on the ban list or the watched list?
    buy sethhack and find out
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  26. Post #26

    April 2012
    10 Posts
    So my question is, are people who bought and use SH purely for anti-cheating purposes gonna get unfairly banned now?
    Pardon my ignorance, but how in the world do you use SH for anti-cheating purposes? Looking at the site it's purely a cheating program.
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  27. Post #27
    SirCrest is my life, so is yours.
    Goz3rr's Avatar
    October 2009
    7,310 Posts
    Pardon my ignorance, but how in the world do you use SH for anti-cheating purposes? Looking at the site it's purely a cheating program.
    To make anticheat for something you need a actual copy to figure out how it works... ?
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  28. Post #28

    April 2012
    10 Posts
    To make anticheat for something you need a actual copy to figure out how it works... ?
    'Tis true I guess, but aren't you breaking their ToS by doing that?
    Regardless of morals, the ToS is a legally binding agreement.
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  29. Post #29
    garry's Avatar
    September 2001
    12,369 Posts
    Their TOS isn't worth shit.
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  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    Shock120's Avatar
    March 2011
    111 Posts
    I wonder if you would accept video reports, because there's a few seth/other hackers that aren't in cheaters.cfg
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  31. Post #31
    garry's Avatar
    September 2001
    12,369 Posts
    No I've got my own system - thanks for the offer though
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  32. Post #32
    boxxyy's Avatar
    February 2012
    38 Posts
    No I've got my own system - thanks for the offer though
    >my own system
    >my own

    Because your system would only detect a small fraction of SethHack users, who are in reality all banned on at least one mainstream server. It makes sense that your own system is only active on some servers.
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  33. Post #33

    April 2012
    10 Posts
    Their TOS isn't worth shit.
    Just wondering Garry, does gmod have a specific ToS?
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  34. Post #34
    pennerlord's Avatar
    February 2011
    503 Posts
    Just wondering Garry, does gmod have a specific ToS?
    Yes, it has: http://garrysmod.com/terms
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  35. Post #35

    April 2012
    10 Posts
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  36. Post #36
    Ruzza's Avatar
    December 2011
    1,137 Posts
    No I've got my own system - thanks for the offer though
    http://db.tt/8kpBY2Sg

    also you should remove all the duped bans you have :S
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  37. Post #37
    Cloudhunter's Avatar
    November 2007
    529 Posts
    The updated cheaters.cfg has no duplicates. You must be looking at the older one.

    Code:
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:24542076
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:11736063
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:26853786
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:4268664
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:22308446
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:47029807
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:27281484
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:25345204
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:40161943
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:18355021
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:31909554
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:6788895
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:14218119
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:41799917
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:20318952
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:31811639
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:10457218
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:38893214
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:31372055
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:12412908
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:28307108
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:26736765
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:48308696
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:20690416
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:48430247
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:38727026
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:10089448
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:13737877
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:25032393
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:25961258
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:46113191   
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:26325520
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:14084529
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:43988463
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:36820593
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:15930135
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:29790222
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:10839552
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:48424005
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:12681987
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:41152155
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:32073049 
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:23240412
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:23836998
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:21603250
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:38018800
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:24388264
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:34370714
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:14682870
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:37173161
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:16602699
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:33147875
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:17104852
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:45776064
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:3950924
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:31391445
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:32767364
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:17041504
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:15748061
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:48346538
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:39101463
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:24311352
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:37814204
    banid 0 STEAM_0:0:27284598
    banid 0 STEAM_0:1:46476374
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  38. Post #38
    boxxyy's Avatar
    February 2012
    38 Posts
    http://db.tt/8kpBY2Sg

    also you should remove all the duped bans you have :S
    He didn't bother to check if people were there twice, he just copy/pasted all of the ban lists that were made by server-side anticheats.
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  39. Post #39
    Gold Member

    February 2006
    6 Posts
    Garry can do far more than what communities can do to detect SH. I'm fairly sure he wouldn't put anything in that could have a huge margin of error.
    A completely global ban should have no margin of error in my opinion. However, I applaud you for finally doing something about SH garry.
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  40. Post #40
    Gold Member
    Alex_grist's Avatar
    January 2007
    1,061 Posts
    A completely global ban should have no margin of error in my opinion.
    It's hardly an error, it had some duplicates.. not some false positives.
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