1. Post #41
    Gold Member
    The First 11'er's Avatar
    January 2011
    3,724 Posts
    That's not how it works. And it shouldn't be. Gender is a sense of mind, not relating to your physical body where as your sex is whether you're a male or female. It's not confusing, it's fucking rude to say "he" or "she" when they don't identify with that sex. What's not to fucking get?
    When you originally identify someone as a male and then they just suddenly throw out that they're going to be a girl, it's not an easy process to go through when you have to change your whole mindset of how to act and/or call them.
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  2. Post #42
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    17,992 Posts
    When you originally identify someone as a male and then they just suddenly throw out that they're going to be a girl, it's not an easy process to go through when you have to change your whole mindset of how to act and/or call them.
    No, and I'm going through it now, but it's still fucking rude for you to call them by the opposite of what they are identifying themselves by. People in that situation usually get that it's hard to get it right away, but when you're trying to justify calling them the wrong one, you've gone too far. Your first post I replied to is an example of trying to justify it. It's not okay.
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  3. Post #43
    Gold Member
    mugofdoom's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,189 Posts
    When you originally identify someone as a male and then they just suddenly throw out that they're going to be a girl, it's not an easy process to go through when you have to change your whole mindset of how to act and/or call them.
    Especially when all she did was put on a dress.

    All I'm saying is put a little more effort into it.
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  4. Post #44
    Gold Member
    Boxbot219's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,266 Posts
    When you originally identify someone as a male and then they just suddenly throw out that they're going to be a girl, it's not an easy process to go through when you have to change your whole mindset of how to act and/or call them.
    LOL are you serious? It's so difficult to refer to someone by the pronoun they identify as when you KNOW they have GID? Poor you. It's clearly so much more difficult than being called the wrong gender by someone who is aware of your gender.
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  5. Post #45
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    17,992 Posts
    Especially when all he did was put on a dress.
    Who gives a shit? It's not about clothing. It's about how you feel as a person and how you identify with the world. So what if you're a guy who wants to be a girl who still wears somewhat "tomboyish" shit or full out dresses. It's not about that.

    How is this hard?

    Reading your edit just makes you a big asshole.
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  6. Post #46
    Gold Member
    The First 11'er's Avatar
    January 2011
    3,724 Posts
    LOL are you serious? It's so difficult to refer to someone by the pronoun they identify as when you KNOW they have GID? Poor you. It's clearly so much more difficult than being called the wrong gender by someone who is aware of your gender.
    Holy shit, are you literally fucking stupid? Imagine if you had a close friend to you who ultimately decided that they were a girl and for all your lives you were basically friends as how you perceived. Now you're friends with a chick; you don't easily call him a girl. You're obviously so fucking stuck that everyone must go along with what everyone says. I don't give a flying fuck that he chose to be a girl; that's actually great for him because he's doing what he wants to be because he didn't feel he was actually a guy. But it's different when you identified them as a man and all of a sudden that changes.
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  7. Post #47
    Gold Member
    Mr. Someguy's Avatar
    March 2006
    24,260 Posts
    Isn't this going to mess up their singing voice? Just saying. I'm happy for them, but it could mean some serious changes when it comes to the band.
    It will not. You have to learn how to change your voice yourself, and might even be able to go back and force between voices at will.

    Alternatively, vocal surgery exists, but it's a very expensive gamble with no guarantees that it'll sound good, and you run the risk of losing your voice permanently.
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  8. Post #48
    Gold Member
    Jack_Thompson's Avatar
    August 2009
    15,950 Posts
    So that could potentially be the end of a band many people have been close to for 15 years?
    That's secondary to her being happy. All of AM!'s music has been her pouring her emotions out, and I'm sure she'll continue to do that. So far there's been a very large outpouring of support from the online punk community. Time will tell how it sounds, but like I said. It's what makes her happy and I think that's wonderful.
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  9. Post #49
    Gold Member
    Boxbot219's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,266 Posts
    Holy shit, are you literally fucking stupid? Imagine if you had a close friend to you who ultimately decided that they were a girl and for all your lives you were basically friends as how you perceived. Now you're friends with a chick; you don't easily call him a girl. You're obviously so fucking stuck that everyone must go along with what everyone says. I don't give a flying fuck that he chose to be a girl; that's actually great for him because he's doing what he wants to be because he didn't feel he was actually a guy. But it's different when you identified them as a man and all of a sudden that changes.
    You know I find it quite hilarious that you used this scenario, because I did have a close friend who did this. My dad also had a friend who did this.

    I didn't find it difficult to refer to her as a girl at all. Maybe I'm just more tolerant of transgender people that I don't find someone who chooses to identify themselves as their gender identity shocking.
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  10. Post #50
    Gold Member
    Mr. Someguy's Avatar
    March 2006
    24,260 Posts
    Especially when all she did was put on a dress.

    All I'm saying is put a little more effort into it.
    Gabel, who has dealt privately with gender dysphoria for years, will soon begin the process of transition, by taking hormones and undergoing electrolysis treatments.
    Reading helps.
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  11. Post #51
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    17,992 Posts
    Holy shit, are you literally fucking stupid? Imagine if you had a close friend to you who ultimately decided that they were a girl and for all your lives you were basically friends as how you perceived. Now you're friends with a chick; you don't easily call him a girl. You're obviously so fucking stuck that everyone must go along with what everyone says. I don't give a flying fuck that he chose to be a girl; that's actually great for him because he's doing what he wants to be because he didn't feel he was actually a guy. But it's different when you identified them as a man and all of a sudden that changes.
    You're so laughable. Is this really how you think? This has happened to me as well and it doesn't matter that it's fucking hard, it's rude to try and justify it LIKE you did. That's the fucking point.
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  12. Post #52
    Gold Member
    The First 11'er's Avatar
    January 2011
    3,724 Posts
    You know I find it quite hilarious that you used this scenario, because I did have a close friend who did this. My dad also had a friend who did this.

    I didn't find it difficult to refer to her as a girl at all. Maybe I'm just more tolerant of transgender people that I don't find someone who chooses to identify themselves as their gender identity shocking.
    No, you're tolerant to a big amount of change in a not exactly vast amount of time.

    Edited:

    You're so laughable. Is this really how you think? This has happened to me as well and it doesn't matter that it's fucking hard, it's rude to try and justify it LIKE you did. That's the fucking point.
    Do you not get the fucking point? I'm not saying that I'm not going to call them what they prefer. You're not reading anything if you're seriously thinking that's what I'm getting at.
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  13. Post #53
    Gold Member
    mugofdoom's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,189 Posts
    -eh nevermind, I've given Against Me! enough shit-
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  14. Post #54
    Gold Member
    leet's Avatar
    January 2008
    2,002 Posts
    -eh nevermind, I've given Against Me! enough shit-
    I'm actually interested to know what you said, come on.
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  15. Post #55
    Gold Member
    Boxbot219's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,266 Posts
    Do you not get the fucking point? I'm not saying that I'm not going to call them what they prefer. You're not reading anything if you're seriously thinking that's what I'm getting at.
    No, according to this post your point was that you don't refer someone by their gender identity if it is to the contrary of their biological sex until they go through the entire sex change process.

    Your point was idiotic.
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  16. Post #56
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    17,992 Posts
    No, you're tolerant to a big amount of change in a not exactly vast amount of time.

    Edited:



    Do you not get the fucking point? I'm not saying that I'm not going to call them what they prefer. You're not reading anything if you're seriously thinking that's what I'm getting at.
    How about you fucking write what you mean rather than saying you don't want to call them what they want to be in your FIRST fucking post?

    Short term memory much? Or do you just prefer to ignore what you say once you've been called on it?

  17. Post #57
    So male is somebody with a penis correct? Or is him with somebody with a penis?
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  18. Post #58
    Gold Member
    mugofdoom's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,189 Posts
    I'm actually interested to know what you said, come on.
    Nah, I'm starting to feel like too big of an asshole. As much as I love ragging on the band for being terrible, and as hilarious as it would be to witness them playing with the lead singer dressed as she is in that picture, I think I'm going to call it quits.

    Edited:

    So male is somebody with a penis correct? Or is him with somebody with a penis?
    His sex is male, but her gender identity is female.
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  19. Post #59
    Ok so I'm assuming its alright to call him a male, instead of him then right?
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  20. Post #60
    Gold Member
    mugofdoom's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,189 Posts
    Ok so I'm assuming its alright to call him a male, instead of him then right?
    You wouldn't be able to use "male" as a pronoun.

    "Tom is a really bad singer. Male cannot sing very well."
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  21. Post #61
    Ok, so he cannot sing very good.
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  22. Post #62
    Gold Member
    Boxbot219's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,266 Posts
    So male is somebody with a penis correct? Or is him with somebody with a penis?
    When you refer to an actual person, you refer to them by their gender identity if you are aware of it.

    You mention their biological sex if you are explicitly referring to their biological sex, like for example if you are a doctor and their biological sex is relevant. Or if you are stating that a trans women who had a sex change used to biologically be a man.

    It's very rude to refer to the person themselves as their biological sex if it is to the contrary of their gender identity and if you are aware of that fact.
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  23. Post #63
    Reaper3_3's Avatar
    July 2007
    748 Posts
    Who fucking cares holy shit.

    (User was banned for this post ("Meme" - verynicelady))
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  24. Post #64
    Gold Member
    Boxbot219's Avatar
    September 2005
    2,266 Posts

    Who fucking cares holy shit.
    Apparently you cared enough to post a video macro.
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  25. Post #65
    Reaper3_3's Avatar
    July 2007
    748 Posts
    UH OH YOU GOT ME DANG IT
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  26. Post #66
    Head over heels in love with Pudding~
    Dennab
    January 2012
    5,547 Posts
    It just takes some getting used to. Once you're more comfortable with it tgism really isn't that big of a deal.

    Let us do what we will, we shouldn't have to torture ourselves because we should be "men" or "women".

    Edited:

    Especially when all she did was put on a dress.

    All I'm saying is put a little more effort into it.
    All I did was put on a dress.

    However, I felt this way my entire life, so maybe I should put a little more effort into it?
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  27. Post #67

    December 2011
    72 Posts
    When you refer to an actual person, you refer to them by their gender identity if you are aware of it.

    You mention their biological sex if you are explicitly referring to their biological sex, like for example if you are a doctor and their biological sex is relevant. Or if you are stating that a trans women who had a sex change used to biologically be a man.

    It's very rude to refer to the person themselves as their biological sex if it is to the contrary of their gender identity and if you are aware of that fact.
    i'll refer to a tranny as to what they were fucking born as

    (User was banned for this post ("Trolling or dumb" - verynicelady))
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  28. Post #68
    Gold Member
    N0 WAR's Avatar
    June 2007
    993 Posts
    You wouldn't be able to use "male" as a pronoun.

    "Tom is a really bad singer. Male cannot sing very well."
    "Now I'm not transphobic BUT--"

    Yeah, you're another one of those people eh?
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  29. Post #69
    Head over heels in love with Pudding~
    Dennab
    January 2012
    5,547 Posts
    i'll refer to a tranny as to what they were fucking born as
    Wow, that's just asking for something.

    You know what? I'm not going to get mad, because I know you're just trying to troll. Or maybe you are bigoted as fuck in which case I can deal with that. You are obviously a very unintelligent person who needs help.

    (User was banned for this post ("Report, don't further derail by replying" - verynicelady))
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  30. Post #70
    Gold Member
    mugofdoom's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,189 Posts
    "Now I'm not transphobic BUT--"

    Yeah, you're another one of those people eh?
    Well, I'm not afraid of transgender people, so I guess I'm not transphobic by definition.

    Also, how the fuck is that transphobic? Out of all the awful things I've said in this thread, you picked the one where I'm simply explaining how pronouns work?

    Here, this is a better example:

    The dress really compliments his massive arms.
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  31. Post #71
    Head over heels in love with Pudding~
    Dennab
    January 2012
    5,547 Posts
    I'd say that clucker guy deserves something.

    Mind coming up to Canada for a bit? I'll make sure you're really accommodated for.
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  32. Post #72
    Gold Member
    DarkendSky's Avatar
    July 2009
    3,052 Posts
    I would prefer people seek counseling than immediately default to a trans-gender operation.

    I mean, maybe it's not always the case, but every transgendered person I've met had major, major psychological trauma in their past.
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  33. Post #73
    Gold Member
    mugofdoom's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,189 Posts
    All I did was put on a dress.

    However, I felt this way my entire life, so maybe I should put a little more effort into it?
    Do as you please, bro. Just don't start a terrible punk rock band.
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  34. Post #74
    Head over heels in love with Pudding~
    Dennab
    January 2012
    5,547 Posts
    I would prefer people seek counseling than immediately default to a trans-gender operation.

    I mean, maybe it's not always the case, but every transgendered person I've met had major, major psychological trauma in their past.
    AFAIK you have to go through therapy to make sure it is the right decision for you. However I never really had to do much aside from pass an initial interview. But I hear it is a lot harder in other places.

    Edited:

    Do as you please, bro. Just don't start a terrible punk rock band.
    I don't plan on starting a band any time soon.

    In fact I'd rather get my life sorted out.

    Edited:

    In fact I'm not even allowed to get an operation until I'm 18.
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  35. Post #75
    Gold Member
    N0 WAR's Avatar
    June 2007
    993 Posts
    Well, I'm not afraid of transgender people, so I guess I'm not transphobic by definition.

    Also, how the fuck is that transphobic? Out of all the awful things I've said in this thread, you picked the one where I'm simply explaining how pronouns work?
    You're refusing to say 'her', and only saying 'him' to piss everyone off (Well, except your fellow transphobes).

    Yes, you are transphobic. You're scared that you might not be able to grasp the concept, so you channel that fear into hatred, all of your type do that.

    i'll refer to a tranny as to what they were fucking born as
    Yeah because your simple mind can't do anything else, worm.
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  36. Post #76
    Gold Member
    mugofdoom's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,189 Posts
    You're refusing to say 'her', and only saying 'him' to piss everyone off (Well, except your fellow transphobes).

    Yes, you are transphobic. You're scared that you might not be able to grasp the concept, so you channel that fear into hatred, all of your type do that.
    I've been calling her a she for most of the thread. I only did it in my first few posts.
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  37. Post #77
    Gold Member
    N0 WAR's Avatar
    June 2007
    993 Posts
    I've been calling her a she for most of the thread. I only did it in my first few posts.
    Yeah, only after you got destroyed for it. I'm yet to be convinced of what you really think.
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  38. Post #78
    Gold Member
    mugofdoom's Avatar
    September 2005
    5,189 Posts
    If anything I'm against mephobic.
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  39. Post #79
    2014 SH Pun Award Nominee
    Awesomecaek's Avatar
    January 2009
    21,268 Posts
    I am confused and lack information on the hole "transgender" scene so I don't want to offend anyone, but I would still consider 'him' a 'he' until the operation is done.
    There are so many factors on the biological level to consider, that once one gets into this stuff, everything sorta fails to truly say if you are talking about a fish or a lobster.

    The most acceptable way is to call the person as what they feel like being called. I mean, why not? If you had business with the person which somehow critically depended on the biological features they have, I understand somewhat more pragmatic naming would make sense.

    But as long as you are somebody just talking about someone else, please, do them the courtesy and call them the way they want to be called.
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  40. Post #80
    Reaper3_3's Avatar
    July 2007
    748 Posts
    If I knew somebody that was transgender, then I would definitely respect them and refer to them as they would want. And I'm sure almost everybody here would too. It's human nature for most people to still consider him a man, and refer to them as such, especially on the internet. This isn't a thread about the correct way to refer to somebody transger though, so everybody just chill out. Every thread ever about somebody that is transgender turns into this argument. It's pointless and stupid.
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