1. Post #1
    I love liberals, they make me so fucking hard I just want to cum all over the place while fucking a pony.
    Glaber's Avatar
    January 2008
    4,497 Posts
    Coal industry warns proposed EPA rule could force fourth of plants to close May 10, 2012
    FOX
    In obscure, blue-collar towns across Appalachia -- places that most Americans have never seen -- generations of coal miners have toiled away at back-breaking labor to power American homes and industry. Now, as many as 200,000 of them who dig, process, transport and burn America's most abundant fuel are threatened by EPA's latest coal rule.

    It imposes a standard for emissions that is all but impossible for many plants to meet. It requires coal-fired plants to release no more than 1,000 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt hour.

    The only means for many older plants to attain that standard is to install what is known as carbon capture and storage technology. But that's expensive and not commercially available.

    "At the end of the day, we just couldn't justify it based upon what that cost would be," says Mark Durbin of First Energy, which owns the Willow Island Power Station in Albright, W.Va., "It would be astronomical to try and retrofit some of older units that really are not as efficient as they should be."

    Environmentalists are praising the new rule as a vital defense against climate change.

    "We know what fossil fuel damages do to our public health, the health of our kids, our families," said Brent Blackwelder at a recent gathering of Friends of the Earth. "We know the damage it does to crops and to buildings. And now the big damage all around the world is climate disruption."

    But coal industry representatives believe they've made great strides in reducing emissions through the years -- now capturing over 99 percent of particulate emissions released during the combustion process. The EPA's proposed rule, they say, sets the bar too high and may force the closure of 20 to 25 percent of coal-fired plants across the United States.

    In a state known for its bare-knuckles politics, both men vying for the governorís office have joined forces in fighting this and other EPA regulations that target the coal industry. Incumbent Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin plans to sue the EPA over the rule - a move that his Republican opponent Bill Maloney welcomes.

    "Last year at this time, we were looking for 2,000 coal miners to go to work. Now there's 2,000 laid off," Maloney said. "We've got six coal-fired power plants that are being shut. We're losing our competitive edge, and it's wrong."

    As one measure of the disdain in West Virginia for the Obama administration's crackdown on coal, a federal prisoner doing 17 years for extortion got 41 percent of the vote in Tuesday's Democratic primary to President Obama's 59 percent.

    Administration supporters are banking on cheap, clean and abundant natural gas as a substitute for coal-fired power, but critics say there are problems with its transportation and storage -- problems which have lead to price hikes in the past.

    Craig Jennings, president of the Preston County, W.Va., Commission, says his constituents are bracing for big spikes in their electricity bills.

    "They're telling us that you're going to see at least a 30 percent increase in your electric bill now," he said. "For an older person on a fixed income in an older home who's used to paying $300 a month for an electric bill they're going to be pushing $400 a month now on that same electric bill."

    West Virginians can take comfort in one small legal victory, one they hope to see repeated in other pending lawsuits. In March, a federal judge reversed a controversial EPA rule that forced Mingo Logan Coal Company to stop work at its Spruce Number One Mine, a property in which it had already invested millions of dollars.

    The judge concluded that the EPA exceeded its authority under the Clean Water Act by revoking a permit that had already been granted.
    Source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ants-to-close/
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    katbug's Avatar
    January 2010
    6,579 Posts
    the horror.
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  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,226 Posts
    I don't give a shit about what the coal industry thinks, they're a dying industry that needs a few more nails in the coffin. You want to pollute the Earth with coal fumes? It's called industrial progress. New forms of business are made while others die. This will die. It has to.

    If they're forced to utilize new forms of energy, they'll survive. If they can't meet the regulations, they'll die. It's how business works.

    Clean energy will dominate the face of the energy industry within the next five years. I've been in the plants that make windmills and I've seen the solar panels being made. They produce power better and cleaner, and they're GOING to get the price down to 10% of what it is right now. You think this shit will survive? Grow up and welcome to the real world kid.
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  4. Post #4
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    18,132 Posts
    It's dumb to oppose this in the way you almost certainly do Glaber.
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  5. Post #5
    MRTW113's Avatar
    March 2010
    4,725 Posts
    Considering we've been adamant to stick to coal (a notoriously dirty burning fuel) while at the same time refusing to upgrade aging facilities, these guys have to bite the bullet someday and revamp.

    The coal plant's argument is the same one as factories that dump raw sewage into rivers in order to "cut costs and stay competitive".

    Edited:

    also, lmaofoxnewsbalancedreporting
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,226 Posts
    And you know what? You can call me a fucking hippy for "wanting hopeless shit to work" like clean energy, but you know what? I'm supporting because not only will it help the environment, it's profitable as fuck. The environmental industry is taking off like nothing else, and NOTHING can stop it. Not the coal industry, not the lobbyists, not even your pitiful little politicians with their oil-company money. This shit is going down HARD, and it'll make people like me a whole lot of money. I REALLY hope you enjoy being stuck in the 20th century, because you're going to be fucked because of it.
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  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    March 2006
    6,660 Posts
    of course they do. why the hell should I believe anything "the coal industry" has to say about regulations on the coal industry?
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  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    ScoutKing's Avatar
    May 2007
    6,421 Posts
    Ohhhhh, that's too bad.
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  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    Lord of Ears's Avatar
    January 2007
    8,264 Posts
    opens up room for some new nuclear power
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  10. Post #10
    SJW 4 lyfe
    DaysBefore's Avatar
    December 2009
    7,358 Posts
    Good. Anything's better then the coal fired plants.
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  11. Post #11
    Marcolade's Avatar
    November 2008
    1,127 Posts
    Clean energy will dominate the face of the energy industry within the next five years.
    I don't know if we're going to get it THAT quick. Don't get me wrong, I believe cleaner, alternative forms of energy will spring up sooner or later, but I don't think we'll be getting it quite that soon. I suppose I'm just being pessimistic, though.
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  12. Post #12
    lady godiva's giant vaginas
    Metalcastr's Avatar
    May 2005
    1,873 Posts
    I do care about the workers, but coal in general is bad for all of us.
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  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,226 Posts
    I don't know if we're going to get it THAT quick. Don't get me wrong, I believe cleaner, alternative forms of energy will spring up sooner or later, but I don't think we'll be getting it quite that soon. I suppose I'm just being pessimistic, though.
    Dude, I've been touring these facilities, particularly the ones in Phoenix and Tucson. They KNOW the issues with solar power and they've fixed it. Newer and cheaper panels will be on the market in less than a year. There's an underground revolution stirring within the energy industry, and it's about to break out exponentially.
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  14. Post #14
    Marcolade's Avatar
    November 2008
    1,127 Posts
    Dude, I've been touring these facilities, particularly the ones in Phoenix and Tucson. They KNOW the issues with solar power and they've fixed it. Newer and cheaper panels will be on the market in less than a year. There's an underground revolution stirring within the energy industry, and it's about to break out exponentially.
    Awesome, then!

  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,226 Posts
    Awesome, then!
    It's amazing. The amount of people they have working on all of this would blow you away. Solon and A few other Spanish and German firms are the biggest players. China is definitely making the cheapest ones though. ASU is 60% solar-powered. We're almost self-sustained.

  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    FreakyMe's Avatar
    December 2005
    4,945 Posts
    Oh shit, then they may have to INNOVATE with the record breaking profits they are making.

    Oh no, some CEO might go without a bonus - but who am I kidding, it'll surely get passed down to us and the CEO's will take home millions anyways.

  17. Post #17
    fox '09's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,321 Posts
    Dude, I've been touring these facilities, particularly the ones in Phoenix and Tucson. They KNOW the issues with solar power and they've fixed it. Newer and cheaper panels will be on the market in less than a year. There's an underground revolution stirring within the energy industry, and it's about to break out exponentially.
    plus, doesn't the cost of solar panels decrease by 1/3rd every year or something?
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    Lonestriper's Avatar
    September 2008
    5,782 Posts
    Another example of big government busting the balls of the industry which created America, there is no cost incentive to lower emissions, why must you punish success?
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  19. Post #19
    I'M A SHAAARK!
    Lambeth's Avatar
    October 2009
    14,844 Posts
    And you know what? You can call me a fucking hippy for "wanting hopeless shit to work" like clean energy, but you know what? I'm supporting because not only will it help the environment, it's profitable as fuck. The environmental industry is taking off like nothing else, and NOTHING can stop it. Not the coal industry, not the lobbyists, not even your pitiful little politicians with their oil-company money. This shit is going down HARD, and it'll make people like me a whole lot of money. I REALLY hope you enjoy being stuck in the 20th century, because you're going to be fucked because of it.
    Another good thing about green energy(specifically stuff like tidal, wind and solar) is that those jobs can't be outsourced. unless something crazy happens to the earth we'll always have the sun, wind and waves. Unlike fossil fuels which we will inevitably run out of and seek it out elsewhere.

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,226 Posts
    Another example of big government busting the balls of the industry which created America, there is no cost incentive to lower emissions, why must you punish success?
    There is an incentive to lower emissions, it's called lower maintenance costs, zero third-party suppliers (such as coal mining), tax-breaks, as well as the fact that you let it SIT and it makes money. Coal has so many variables that makes it old-fashioned and inefficient. It would die with or without regulation, it just determines how long it takes.




    Also Glaber, come out of your damn hidey hole! I want you friggin' opinion on this so I can smash it down with some good old fashioned business and insider-engineer knowledge.
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  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    Lonestriper's Avatar
    September 2008
    5,782 Posts
    There is an incentive to lower emissions, it's called lower maintenance costs, zero third-party suppliers (such as coal mining), tax-breaks, as well as the fact that you let it SIT and it makes money. Coal has so many variables that makes it old-fashioned and inefficient. It would die with or without regulation, it just determines how long it takes.
    I was talking about coal plants not needing to lower their emissions output, but too bad the Democrats are hell bent on destroying American industry (like they did with GM) through over-regulation. Also, what you say about no 3rd party suppliers sounds dangerously like nationalised energy production, what's next? wealth redistribution? worker co-ops? take your Communism elsewhere Stalin
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  22. Post #22
    Tuba Player Extraordinaire
    Funcoot's Avatar
    January 2006
    3,592 Posts
    I was talking about coal plants not needing to lower their emissions output, but too bad the Democrats are hell bent on destroying American industry (like they did with GM) through over-regulation. Also, what you say about no 3rd party suppliers sounds dangerously like nationalised energy production, what's next? wealth redistribution? worker co-ops? take your Communism elsewhere Stalin
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    Lonestriper's Avatar
    September 2008
    5,782 Posts
    Typical liberals, got nothing to reply with so they just pretend they are more superior
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  24. Post #24
    Tuba Player Extraordinaire
    Funcoot's Avatar
    January 2006
    3,592 Posts
    Typical liberals, got nothing to reply with so they just pretend they are more superior
    It's funny that you assume I'm a liberal. I was just laughing at your stupidity. I'm left leaning, but no where to the extent of most facepunch users.

  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    Lonestriper's Avatar
    September 2008
    5,782 Posts
    It's funny that you assume I'm a liberal. I was just laughing at your stupidity. I'm left leaning, but no where to the extent of most facepunch users.
    And you still have nothing to reply with, thanks for the ad hominem
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  26. Post #26
    Midna is hot stuff~
    Dalndox's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,713 Posts
    Guys.

    Guys.

    I think he's trolling.

    No one is that unabashedly stupid.
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  27. Post #27
    Tuba Player Extraordinaire
    Funcoot's Avatar
    January 2006
    3,592 Posts
    And you still have nothing to reply with, thanks for the ad hominem
    You suggested that a power company that has no need to pay other companies to procure resources is communism.

  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    Lonestriper's Avatar
    September 2008
    5,782 Posts
    You suggested that a power company that has no need to pay other companies to procure resources is communism.
    Uhh, obviously the government gets its energy from 3rd party suppliers (as it should). So what he was inferring by saying zero 3rd party suppliers was that the government should abandon the resources it has for an unfeasible 'green' energy (which is actually worse for the environment for coal, carbon dioxide is one of the key molecules for life, why wouldn't we want more of it?) run by themselves rather than allowing companies to do it more efficiently.
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  29. Post #29
    Dennab
    August 2011
    3,194 Posts
    I don't give a shit about what the coal industry thinks, they're a dying industry that needs a few more nails in the coffin. You want to pollute the Earth with coal fumes? It's called industrial progress. New forms of business are made while others die. This will die. It has to.

    If they're forced to utilize new forms of energy, they'll survive. If they can't meet the regulations, they'll die. It's how business works.

    Clean energy will dominate the face of the energy industry within the next five years. I've been in the plants that make windmills and I've seen the solar panels being made. They produce power better and cleaner, and they're GOING to get the price down to 10% of what it is right now. You think this shit will survive? Grow up and welcome to the real world kid.
    Calling multi-millionaire/billionaires kids, very angsty of you.
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  30. Post #30
    Tuba Player Extraordinaire
    Funcoot's Avatar
    January 2006
    3,592 Posts
    Uhh, obviously the government gets its energy from 3rd party suppliers (as it should). So what he was inferring by saying zero 3rd party suppliers was that the government should abandon the resources it has for an unfeasible 'green' energy (which is actually worse for the environment for coal, carbon dioxide is one of the key molecules for life, why wouldn't we want more of it?) run by themselves rather than allowing companies to do it more efficiently.
    The fact that you assume the government runs every power company show how ignorant you are. Most power companies are private companies.

    What Ewitwin's is saying is that oil and coal are expensive energies. Coal and oil must be extracted, which is very expensive. Then you have to transport it to a plant, which is also expensive. Then you have to refine it, which is also expensive. Then you burn it and pollute the Earth.

    Solar, wind, tidal, and other similar energies are all consolidated, so that you don't have to worry paying another company to extract these resources, it all happens in the same location. Oh, and they don't harm the planet. They don't cause large scale disasters that decimate ecosystems.

    Oh and by the way. I would like to inform you that life existed before coal fueled power plants did. We don't need coal fueled power plants polluting the atmosphere to survive; Earth can produce its own carbon dioxide on it's own.


    But what do I know? I'm just a typical liberal with no reply.
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  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Jmir 54's Avatar
    October 2008
    4,535 Posts
    oh god I live in West Virginia where the col industry is the lifeblood of a LOT of people

    I wont be surprised if I hear a lot of shit about this on the radio

  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    TestECull's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,027 Posts
    Adapt or die. That's all there is to it.
    I was talking about coal plants not needing to lower their emissions output, but too bad the Democrats are hell bent on destroying American industry (like they did with GM) through over-regulation. Also, what you say about no 3rd party suppliers sounds dangerously like nationalised energy production, what's next? wealth redistribution? worker co-ops? take your Communism elsewhere Stalin
    There's nothing communistic about shutting coal plants down and replacing them with literally anything else in use. A bunch of large diesel engines would be markedly cleaner than coal boilers, nevermind something like nuclear or hydroelectric.
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  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    danharibo's Avatar
    July 2006
    4,498 Posts
    Uhh, obviously the government gets its energy from 3rd party suppliers (as it should). So what he was inferring by saying zero 3rd party suppliers was that the government should abandon the resources it has for an unfeasible 'green' energy (which is actually worse for the environment for coal, carbon dioxide is one of the key molecules for life, why wouldn't we want more of it?) run by themselves rather than allowing companies to do it more efficiently.
    Are you for real?

    Coal plants and other fossil fuels displace a huge amount of pollutants into the environment and even release more radiation into the environment than a nuclear power plant [1]
    . Now I'm not saying the radiation released by coal plants is a significant danger to anyone, it still pollutes the environment more than the alternatives, and it releases more greenhouse gasses that other power sources.

    CO2 may be important molecule for life, but it is a greenhouse gas and we should carefully control how much we alter the atmosphere of our only life-sustaining eco-system. That said, if you think Carbon Dioxide will do you a few favours, perhaps you should move to Venus.

  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    Lonestriper's Avatar
    September 2008
    5,782 Posts
    The fact that you assume the government runs every power company show how ignorant you are. Most power companies are private companies.

    What Ewitwin's is saying is that oil and coal are expensive energies. Coal and oil must be extracted, which is very expensive. Then you have to transport it to a plant, which is also expensive. Then you have to refine it, which is also expensive. Then you burn it and pollute the Earth.

    Solar, wind, tidal, and other similar energies are all consolidated, so that you don't have to worry paying another company to extract these resources, it all happens in the same location. Oh, and they don't harm the planet. They don't cause large scale disasters that decimate ecosystems.

    Oh and by the way. I would like to inform you that life existed before coal fueled power plants did. We don't need coal fueled power plants polluting the atmosphere to survive, Earth can produce it's own carbon dioxide on it's own.
    Another Typical liberal move, misconstruing my point on purpose for your own ends.

    If solar, wind, tidal and 'similar' energies are consolidated and cheaper, why is coal still so prevalent? Businesses aren't stupid, if it were actually cheaper (I dont see any evidence for it) they would have jumped on that immediately.

    Secondly, with deforestation being so prevalent, the current levels of carbon dioxide are unsustainable because trees cant release enough because they don't exist anymore. That's why Coal plants ar-bwahaha I can't do this anymore

    Edited:

    It's fun to break up the echo chamber every so often

    (User was banned for this post ("Admitted to Trolling" - Megafan))
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  35. Post #35
    Tuba Player Extraordinaire
    Funcoot's Avatar
    January 2006
    3,592 Posts
    -snip- oh my, you're good.

  36. Post #36
    Midna is hot stuff~
    Dalndox's Avatar
    October 2007
    2,713 Posts
    Called it!
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  37. Post #37
    Tuba Player Extraordinaire
    Funcoot's Avatar
    January 2006
    3,592 Posts
    Called it!
    I suspected as much when he brought up Stalin, but I couldn't have been sure.

  38. Post #38
    lady godiva's giant vaginas
    Metalcastr's Avatar
    May 2005
    1,873 Posts
    Excellent trolling, if I do say so myself.

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,226 Posts
    Another Typical liberal move, misconstruing my point on purpose for your own ends.

    If solar, wind, tidal and 'similar' energies are consolidated and cheaper, why is coal still so prevalent? Businesses aren't stupid, if it were actually cheaper (I dont see any evidence for it) they would have jumped on that immediately.

    Secondly, with deforestation being so prevalent, the current levels of carbon dioxide are unsustainable because trees cant release enough because they don't exist anymore. That's why Coal plants ar-bwahaha I can't do this anymore

    Edited:

    It's fun to break up the echo chamber every so often
    Are you intentionally an idiot? Eliminating 3rd party suppliers is what America's- wait a minute you're fucking trolling aren't you?

    Godammit I love you
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  40. Post #40
    Voted WORST Gold Member 2012
    Killuah's Avatar
    August 2005
    15,750 Posts
    Another good thing about green energy(specifically stuff like tidal, wind and solar) is that those jobs can't be outsourced. unless something crazy happens to the earth we'll always have the sun, wind and waves. Unlike fossil fuels which we will inevitably run out of and seek it out elsewhere.

    Actually the top 3 German solar panel producers that pioneered the technology are bankrupt now because China is raising ressource prices and German government cut the subventions.
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