1. Post #1441
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    Well, i was talking about the fact that the gunner was a psychopath trigger happy retard.
    and i was talking about what the guy was holding, i don't know where the fuck you're coming from.

  2. Post #1442
    Ignhelper's Avatar
    November 2009
    10,140 Posts
    Hmm, I thought facepunch had more military fanatics? Maybe they can help?

    And aren't they supposed to have ground troops to call in the choppers and not having the choppers to fly in there without permission? Why didn't the guys on the ground confirmed their targets?

  3. Post #1443
    Meet the Pyro
    InsanePyro's Avatar
    April 2006
    4,472 Posts
    And this is why you don't let rednecks join the military
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  4. Post #1444
    Gold Member
    XENOLITH's Avatar
    May 2005
    98 Posts
    Hmm, I thought facepunch had more military fanatics? Maybe they can help?

    And aren't they supposed to have ground troops to call in the choppers and not having the choppers to fly in there without permission? Why didn't the guys on the ground confirmed their targets?
    I'm about to go watch the full video, but I think I remember hearing that there was, prior to the film, an attack on a very nearby military position. So actually, the heli would have been called in by ground troops if I heard right.

    The ground troops came in afterwards, I think that they didn't want to get shot at when the gunners confirmed their own armed insurgents. Would have been needlessly dangerous.

    And this is why you don't let rednecks join the military
    What do rednecks have to do with anything?

  5. Post #1445
    Gold Member
    massn7's Avatar
    October 2005
    1,640 Posts
    And this is why you don't let rednecks join the military
    quality post would read again
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  6. Post #1446
    Gold Member
    waxrock's Avatar
    October 2006
    3,171 Posts
    This thread attracts a lot of stupid people... Holy fuck.

  7. Post #1447
    threewrite's Avatar
    March 2007
    201 Posts
    This thread attracts a lot of stupid people... Holy fuck.
    so.. what side are you on, soldier? :smug:

  8. Post #1448
    UnseeNova's Avatar
    March 2010
    399 Posts
    Thats really horrible ...
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  9. Post #1449
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2008
    3,641 Posts
    ITT: Human beings never make mistakes or confuse things right guys
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  10. Post #1450
    Gold Member
    DrMonumbo's Avatar
    January 2006
    1,275 Posts
    ITT: Human beings never make mistakes or confuse things right guys
    My bad, I lit up your family. Forgive me?
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  11. Post #1451
    Starpluck? More like StarFUCK!!
    Starpluck's Avatar
    September 2008
    11,325 Posts
    My bad, I lit up your family. Forgive me?
    In a eager manner as well.

  12. Post #1452
    Gold Member

    September 2007
    4,144 Posts
    My bad, I lit up your family. Forgive me?
    If for some reason his family was in a war-zone suspiciously walking around I think he would be prepared for something like this, he wouldn't be like "OH MY GOD THEY WENT INTO A WAR-ZONE, A HOT SPOT EVEN AND THEY GOT KILLED!! WHAT DO I DO?"

  13. Post #1453
    Gold Member
    Carne's Avatar
    December 2007
    8,294 Posts
    If for some reason his family was in a war-zone suspiciously walking around I think he would be prepared for something like this, he wouldn't be like "OH MY GOD THEY WENT INTO A WAR-ZONE, A HOT SPOT EVEN AND THEY GOT KILLED!! WHAT DO I DO?"
    The U.S made their home into a warzone.
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  14. Post #1454
    Theo213's Avatar
    July 2008
    292 Posts
    Horrible things happen in war all the time. You shouldn't look too deep into this. It was just an awful mistake.

    (Not to say the helicopter crew didn't fuck up pretty bady.)

  15. Post #1455
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    But the US military needs to learn from events like this.
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  16. Post #1456
    Gold Member

    September 2007
    4,144 Posts
    But the US military needs to learn from events like this.
    ...How? It wasn't the military's fault it was just one mistake. It isn't like the military condones killing civilians

    Edited:

    The U.S made their home into a warzone.
    So we're just fighting no one over there?
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  17. Post #1457
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    There has been more than one mistake like this because the military didn't identify targets properly.

    Why do you think there has been some many cases of friendly fire or civilian deaths.

  18. Post #1458
    Gold Member
    ChestyMcGee's Avatar
    August 2008
    25,227 Posts
    Hm. I was almost at the point of thinking "well damn, that's fucking bad. I guess those Apache crews have some excuse though because some of the men on the ground were armed" but then they engaged the van.

    There has been more than one mistake like this because the military didn't identify targets properly.

    Why do you think there has been some many cases of friendly fire or civilian deaths.
    You think this is the only war where this shit happens? Ha. It's just well documented and the cause isn't pure so people get way pissy over it and think the military today is full of cowboys shooting at anything that moves.

    I'm not saying this stuff is excusable, the military aught to take more care in a warzone where the enemy is very hard to identify, but I'd rather an Apache shoot twenty civilians, some of which were armed, than have a whole city flattened by artillery like Ypres.

  19. Post #1459
    Gold Member
    XENOLITH's Avatar
    May 2005
    98 Posts
    There has been more than one mistake like this because the military didn't identify targets properly.

    Why do you think there has been some many cases of friendly fire or civilian deaths.
    I assume you mean so many. Because it's fucking hard to tell soldiers with weapons from civilians with sticks and camera mounts and whatever, if that's what they were really carrying, especially from the air.

    Nobody can be right about everything, the military does their best and sometimes mistakes are made. Whether this shooting was really a mistake is not immediately clear. The way the military tried to cover it up (if I'm not mistaken) was pretty fucking stupid and suspicious, but it's not like this is some heinous act of trigger-happy aggression on the part of a group of soldiers.


    Edit: I just watched the first shooting, and I think the Apache crew was entirely justified. One man was peeking around a building at a bradley, and one of the men was seen with some sort of anti tank weapon so I doubt anyone wanted to wait and find out. Also, it really looked to me like quite a few of the men had guns.

    Van shooting: seems like they were just annoyed that the van was going to be salvaging the weapons and rescuing their targets. Kind of unnecessary, but in a warzone I can see it being reasonable.

  20. Post #1460
    Meet the Pyro
    InsanePyro's Avatar
    April 2006
    4,472 Posts
    What do rednecks have to do with anything?
    Most are trigger happy racist idiots
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  21. Post #1461
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,982 Posts
    Most are trigger happy racist idiots
    Brilliant post. Any other stereotypes you'd like to inform us about?

  22. Post #1462
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    I thought that was a perfect description of a red neck

  23. Post #1463
    Gold Member
    Carne's Avatar
    December 2007
    8,294 Posts
    Well, if i'm not completely wrong, U.S soldiers are trained to shoot first and ask later. Which is stupid in my opinion. There's a reason to why they deal damage to more civilians than other countries. Not only because they have more soldiers stationed in the middle-east, but because they have some wacky rules of engagement.
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  24. Post #1464
    Gold Member
    XENOLITH's Avatar
    May 2005
    98 Posts
    Most are trigger happy racist idiots
    The definition of redneck is basically a dumb bigot, so what you are saying is that we shouldn't let uneducated racists into the military. That is one of the most obvious, useless statements I've ever hear. However, I see no evidence that anyone in the video was a redneck.

    Well, if i'm not completely wrong, U.S soldiers are trained to shoot first and ask later. Which is stupid in my opinion. There's a reason to why they deal damage to more civilians than other countries. Not only because they have more soldiers stationed in the middle-east, but because they have some wacky rules of engagement.
    It's better to shoot first than to get killed. How would you tell your soldiers to act? They kill a lot of civilians because of the kind of war that is going on in Iraq/Afghanistan. They kill more insurgents than civilians, if you are saying they do not you are mistaken. What wacky rules of engagement? You mean the "shoot first" thing?

  25. Post #1465
    Gold Member
    Not Tishler's Avatar
    February 2008
    491 Posts
    ...How? It wasn't the military's fault it was just one mistake. It isn't like the military condones killing civilians

    Edited:



    So we're just fighting no one over there?
    uh, they're defending this, along with all the other civilians killed, pretty heavily.

  26. Post #1466
    Gold Member
    XENOLITH's Avatar
    May 2005
    98 Posts
    uh, they're defending this, along with all the other civilians killed, pretty heavily.
    That's because they think they were in the right during this engagement. Of course they are going to defend what they believe was a correct choice to make.

  27. Post #1467
    Gold Member
    Not Tishler's Avatar
    February 2008
    491 Posts
    Well, if i'm not completely wrong, U.S soldiers are trained to shoot first and ask later. Which is stupid in my opinion. There's a reason to why they deal damage to more civilians than other countries. Not only because they have more soldiers stationed in the middle-east, but because they have some wacky rules of engagement.
    shh, they don't realize shoot first is not on the RoE

    Edited:

    That's because they think they were in the right during this engagement. Of course they are going to defend what they believe was a correct choice to make.
    so they DO defend the murder of civilians

  28. Post #1468
    Gold Member
    waxrock's Avatar
    October 2006
    3,171 Posts
    shh, they don't realize shoot first is not on the RoE

    Edited:


    so they DO defend the murder of civilians
    No, they're defending the fact that it was the right choice to make, considering the situation. Which it is.

  29. Post #1469
    Viephemeral's Avatar
    September 2008
    782 Posts
    Odd way to hold guns. I don't see the rifle one, and the reticule blocks one thing you circled
    Odd way to hold guns? That's the way a lot of people walk with their weapons? Unlike Call of Duty has taught you, men don't walk around with their guns glued to their chest.

    Even if it WAS an odd way to hold a gun, it's an odder way to hold a camera.

    The Helicopters are there because Ground Forces were taking fire from that location. They spot several people with what look like weapons;


    They don't have the Hubble Telescope, they have a grainy image from a distance, they have a very small window of time to actually nab what they suspect to be an insurgent, they fire.
    So the soldier had a grainy image from a distance. That's just another reason NOT to shoot.

  30. Post #1470
    Gold Member
    waxrock's Avatar
    October 2006
    3,171 Posts
    So the soldier had a grainy image from a distance. That's just another reason NOT to shoot.

    pretty sure they had a not-nearly-as-grainy image.
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  31. Post #1471
    Viephemeral's Avatar
    September 2008
    782 Posts
    pretty sure they had a not-nearly-as-grainy image.
    Even if they did, why would these wackjobs decide to shoot at a minivan that came by to help wounded people. That idiot helicopter driver is obviously just trying to get his daily dose of adrenaline. All you hear through the whole video is:

    HURR LEMME SHOOT LOL HE RAN OVER HIS BODY LOL WHYD HE BRING HIS KIDS TO A WARZONEEE LOL PWNED HURR yeehaw.

    Honestly.

  32. Post #1472
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    Even if they did, why would these wackjobs decide to shoot at a minivan that came by to help wounded people. That idiot helicopter driver is obviously just trying to get his daily dose of adrenaline. All you hear through the whole video is:

    HURR LEMME SHOOT LOL HE RAN OVER HIS BODY LOL WHYD HE BRING HIS KIDS TO A WARZONEEE LOL PWNED HURR yeehaw.

    Honestly.
    that's irrelevant. they're talking about the man holding the strange object. i'm sure a van speeding up to the area is something you can clearly see.

    come on guys.

    relevance.

  33. Post #1473
    Gold Member
    waxrock's Avatar
    October 2006
    3,171 Posts
    Even if they did, why would these wackjobs decide to shoot at a minivan that came by to help wounded people. That idiot helicopter driver is obviously just trying to get his daily dose of adrenaline. All you hear through the whole video is:

    HURR LEMME SHOOT LOL HE RAN OVER HIS BODY LOL WHYD HE BRING HIS KIDS TO A WARZONEEE LOL PWNED HURR yeehaw.

    Honestly.
    except we already went over the fact that the van wasn't there to help (maybe it was the other thread?)

  34. Post #1474
    Gold Member
    XENOLITH's Avatar
    May 2005
    98 Posts
    shh, they don't realize shoot first is not on the RoE

    Edited:


    so they DO defend the murder of civilians
    No, they're defending the fact that it was the right choice to make, considering the situation. Which it is.
    Yes, exactly waxrock. Thank you.

    Viephemeral, I'm not going to respond to your comment, that was just so biased and completely wrong.

    I watched the entire 39 minute video, and I think the military did a fine job for the most part. The one time I was annoyed was when they put multiple hellfire missiles into a building, and a civilian walked past the building after the missile was shot. I can't say the soldiers are entirely at fault, but it was kind of a stupid idea to use such a "large" scale explosive on a building so nearby civilian facilities.

    Also, on the subject of the van: the ground soldier made it their priority to evac the child/ren. They weren't at all saying "Hahaha dead kids." like some people in this thread seem to be insinuating or all out exclaiming.

  35. Post #1475
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,982 Posts
    The general conclusion: shooting the first group wasn't necessarily justified but it's understandable if you put yourself in the crew's situation, but the second shooting of the van occupant's was unacceptable.
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  36. Post #1476
    Gold Member
    XENOLITH's Avatar
    May 2005
    98 Posts
    The general conclusion: shooting the first group wasn't necessarily justified but it's understandable if you put yourself in the crew's situation, but the second shooting of the van occupant's was unacceptable.
    I wouldn't entirely agree. At the beginning of the video, they had noticed the van and were targeting/tracking it, so it's not like they thought it was juts some random civilian van coming to help.

  37. Post #1477
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,982 Posts
    I wouldn't entirely agree. At the beginning of the video, they had noticed the van and were targeting/tracking it, so it's not like they thought it was juts some random civilian van coming to help.
    The people in the van were unarmed and not a threat. They were trying to help the wounded. Why would you shoot them?

  38. Post #1478
    Gold Member
    XENOLITH's Avatar
    May 2005
    98 Posts
    The people in the van were unarmed and not a threat. They were trying to help the wounded. Why would you shoot them?
    They weren't carrying guns, but the soldiers probably surmised that they could have had guns in the truck. Also, they were trying to help targets, so they became targets.

    The van was spotted prior to all this, and I forget exactly why, but they knew about the van before it showed up. It was not just a civilian van that showed up by chance. Or maybe it was, but the soldiers did not believe this as far as I can tell.

  39. Post #1479
    Mexican's Avatar
    July 2009
    5,753 Posts
    Helping targets doesn't make you a target at all. Combat medics aren't targets for example. Lethal force is not authorized until they present a clear immediate threat, and "they might have guns in the truck" is not a clear and immediate threat.

  40. Post #1480
    Gold Member
    Not Tishler's Avatar
    February 2008
    491 Posts
    Yes, exactly waxrock. Thank you.

    Viephemeral, I'm not going to respond to your comment, that was just so biased and completely wrong.

    I watched the entire 39 minute video, and I think the military did a fine job for the most part. The one time I was annoyed was when they put multiple hellfire missiles into a building, and a civilian walked past the building after the missile was shot. I can't say the soldiers are entirely at fault, but it was kind of a stupid idea to use such a "large" scale explosive on a building so nearby civilian facilities.
    a fine job?

    they killed innocent people, and that's just awesome? you fucking horrible person. Is being a military apologist include being a heartless cunt?

    Also, on the subject of the van: the ground soldier made it their priority to evac the child/ren. They weren't at all saying "Hahaha dead kids." like some people in this thread seem to be insinuating or all out exclaiming.
    you didn't watch the video, did you?

    Edited:

    They weren't carrying guns, but the soldiers probably surmised that they could have had guns in the truck. Also, they were trying to help targets, so they became targets.

    The van was spotted prior to all this, and I forget exactly why, but they knew about the van before it showed up. It was not just a civilian van that showed up by chance. Or maybe it was, but the soldiers did not believe this as far as I can tell.
    what would they shoot at?

    Edited:

    the air?

    were they going to throw the camera's at the helicopter?

    Edited:

    lol, what the fuck is wrong with you?