[GunFox]

starpluck posted:

Hahaha.

The WHOLE purpose of the delay was to censor the names. What should be newsworthy is the fact that they're going to censor the names. CNN barley mentioned that they were going censored at least.

To deny this fact is absurd. It's known that they are being censored and it was a very expensive operation.

Keep eating what the US media tells you or start thinking for yourself.

And if they miss ONE NAME, it could get someone killed. ONE NAME out of 15 THOUSAND documents.

[TH89]

starpluck posted:

Hahaha.

The WHOLE purpose of the delay was to censor the names. What should be newsworthy is the fact that they're going to censor the names. CNN barley mentioned that they were going censored at least.

To deny this fact is absurd. It's known that they are being censored and it was a very expensive operation.

Keep eating what the US media tells you or start thinking for yourself.

I'm going off the source in the OP, which isn't American, and which flatly contradicts what you're saying. Since you haven't provided anything supporting what you're saying, there's not a lot I can do. I'm on an iPhone.

In the meantime, I consider Amnesty International a trustworthy and well-intentioned organization. Certainly more so than a cabal of entitled little libertarian douchebags. If that makes me a sheeple or whatever I'm good widdit.

[Starpluck]

Because somehow the Taliban can do a better job themselves and find the one name.

Edited:

TH89 posted:

I'm going off the source in the OP, which isn't American, and which flatly contradicts what you're saying. Since you haven't provided anything supporting what you're saying, there's not a lot I can do. I'm on an iPhone.

In the meantime, I consider Amnesty International a trustworthy and well-intentioned organization. Certainly more so than a cabal of entitled little libertarian douchebags. If that makes me a sheeple or whatever I'm good widdit.

I'm on my iTouch and the soure doesn't contradict what I sad. Want me to show you the CNN article as well as a chatlog I had with an offical WikiLeaks Staff member?

[GunFox]

starpluck posted:

Because somehow the Taliban can do a between job themselves and find the one name.

They are willing to fight the world's meanest military with little more than cold war era hardware and some unforgiving terrain. They are nothing if not tenacious.

[Jsm]

GunFox posted:

And if they miss ONE NAME, it could get someone killed. ONE NAME out of 15 THOUSAND documents.

I would guess if they missed a name (I also guess they would have to miss an entire record not to see it) while trying to censor it then someone reading it would also miss it. Unless of course someone was looking for someone and they knew the rough details of when they were mentioned.

Edited:

Wayword posted:

The site is about leaking uncensored documents, did you guys really think they would go against their values?

If they do/did, they are just undermining their integrity and going against the point of the site.
If they don't, they're a bunch of senseless assholes.

Either way they lose.

I think (and hope) they take what appears to be the common sense route, getting the information into the public domain with censored names. Removing names and locations of peoples houses etc wouldn't effect the overall information, the truth of what's really happening would be out there and that seems to be what they want.

[Starpluck]

GunFox posted:

They are willing to fight the world's meanest military with little more than cold war era hardware and some unforgiving terrain. They are nothing if not tenacious.

It's been almost have a month when the first batch was released. Not a death threat nor death has been caused. I'm pretty sure missing one name would yeild the same results. The few names that were leaked are so damn insignificant and hard to find. The Pentagon should take part of the blame as well if anything occurs due to the constant bullshit about it making it seem like an informant name leak only thus publicizing the very few names already avalablie.

[Sickle]

GunFox posted:

They are willing to fight the world's meanest military with little more than cold war era hardware and some unforgiving terrain. They are nothing if not tenacious.

It doesn't fucking matter. As long as guerilla tactics are implied, then whatever troops the USA sends in are as good as fucked/ambushed/heavily damaged.

[TH89]

DamagePoint posted:

A coalition of human rights groups has called on Wikileaks to remove details of civilian Afghans who were named when the website released more than 77,000 classified US Army documents on the war in Afghanistan.

"There was no consideration about civilian lives," he said, adding that Afghan civilians seen to be collaborating with Nato forces are often assassinated by insurgents. "We said that in the future the names should be redacted and the ones that are already there need to be taken down. Even though it's late, it is still worth doing."

The emails, which were also sent on behalf of Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, the Open Society Institute and International Crisis Group, are the first clear indication that some human rights activists are at odds with the way the Afghan logs were published.

[Starpluck]

They were referring to the ones already published, Theta-ix.

[TH89]

Yes. Those are the ones I was talking about, because that article is the topic of this thread.

[Starpluck]

No.

I said the whole purpose of the delay of the 2nd batch was to censor the names. You denied this. Even then, THIS is the topic of the thread; the 2nd batch.

[TH89]

lol whatever dude

Edited:

PS why are you calling me by my waffles username

[Starpluck]

I'm suprised you haven't banned me for "Advocating Leaking".


jk :P

Edited:

TH89 posted:

PS why are you calling me by my waffles username

Mind fuckery.

[TH89]

Hezzy didn't tell me to do that

Anyway Lozenge and his cronies are hypocritical douchebags gambling with the lives of "insignificant" brown people so that they can play petty power games with Washington. The fact that they've already willfully released names of collaborators shows that they either don't know or don't care what they're doing. They're not a force of good--Amnesty International is. Wikileaks is essentially the Pirate Bay of international politics. Yeah, they're entertaining a lot of the time, but they're motivated by their sense of Western entitlement, not by a desire to improve the situation in Afghanistan. All they want to do is stick it to The Man.

[Starpluck]

The leak was about exposing war crimes and real death numbers etc. You're making it sound like they leaked names to act all badass.

[TH89]

They did it to fuck the US government, not for the sake of the Afghani people.

[Carbon Knight]

ZekeTwo posted:

Okay, I'm switching sides. Ban him again, Garry.

Someone disagrees with me, Ban him.

You can boast all you want about how you want freedoms protected but deep down you can't give a shit when it falls in your favor.

[Mr. Scorpio]

TH89 posted:

They did it to fuck the US government, not for the sake of the Afghani people.

If that were true they would have released all of the files immediately upon obtaining them.

[Starpluck]

They did it to inform the world about the USGs bullshittery and how war crimes are being comitted. This will have positive reprocussions in the long run.

[ExplodingGuy]

-snip-

[TH89]

Mr. Scorpio posted:

If that were true they would have released all of the files immediately upon obtaining them.

If they did that, they'd only get one news cycle's worth of attention. The longer they draw this out, the bigger it gets.

Edited:

starpluck posted:

They did it to inform the world about the USGs bullshittery and how war crimes are being comitted. This will have positive reprocussions in the long run.

And the potential brutal deaths of a few thousand brown people are a small price to pay for such a wondrous goal, right?

Lozenge is as much of an imperialist as the US is.

[Starpluck]

TH89 posted:

If they did that, they'd only get one news cycle's worth of attention. The longer they draw this out, the bigger it gets.

Wait, so you're saying they're only doing this to get attention?

Edited:

And the potential brutal deaths of a few thousand brown people are a small price to pay for such a wondrous goal, right?

Lozenge is as much of an imperialist as the US is.

NO ONE ever died from the leaks and I can garuntee you no one will in the future. It's not as much of an informant leak as the USG claims it to be.

[Clark21]

TH89 posted:

They did it to fuck the US government, not for the sake of the Afghani people.

No they did it so people know about these things. Whether that is fucking with the US govt or not, they should not cover war crimes up.

[edja007]

Wikileaks owner needs a slap to the face. If you can't proofread and remove ALL names, then don't publish at all.

Edited:

Clark21 posted:

No they did it so people know about these things. Whether that is fucking with the US govt or not, they should not cover war crimes up.

Wikileaks owner is doing a crime by publishing names. Because of that fucking idiot people who actually help either died or are endangered.

[TH89]

starpluck posted:

Wait, so you're saying they're only doing this to get attention?

Leaking classified documents isn't very effective if nobody notices you do it.

starpluck posted:

NO ONE ever died from the leaks and I can garuntee you no one will in the future. It's not as much of an informant leak as the USG claims it to be.

No, you can't guarantee that, and neither can they. And I think you know that, but you seem to have a dog in this race so w/e

Edited:

Clark21 posted:

No they did it so people know about these things. Whether that is fucking with the US govt or not, they should not cover war crimes up.

I agree, but as evidenced by the OP the Wikileaks people are either too incompetent or too amoral to be trusted with those documents.

[Alyx]

edja007 posted:

Wikileaks owner is doing a crime by publishing names. Because of that fucking idiot people who actually participated in war crime(s) either died or are endangered.

[edja007]

Alyx posted:

blanquote

The document isn't entirely about war crimes.

[Starpluck]

TH89 posted:

Leaking classified documents isn't very effective if nobody notices you do it.

I mis read that, well yeah obviously. I'd you expose a war crime, there's no point if no one notices.

No, you can't guarantee that, and neither can they. And I think you know that, but you seem to have a dog in this race so w/e

Have you even read the leaks? Go read a piece of it right now, I bet you won't be able to understand it.

And there's no "Informant" section. Some few documents just happened to have some names. Now everyone thinks that the Taliban will hunt them down.

I wouldn't be suprised if the average American thought the purpose if the leaks were to expose the names.

[Mr. Scorpio]

TH89 posted:

If they did that, they'd only get one news cycle's worth of attention. The longer they draw this out, the bigger it gets.

Edited:


And the potential brutal deaths of a few thousand brown people are a small price to pay for such a wondrous goal, right?

Lozenge is as much of an imperialist as the US is.

so you're saying they're too stupid to have a legitimate reason for doing this, but they're smart enough to engineer the news networks of america

[Clark21]

edja007 posted:

Wikileaks owner needs a slap to the face. If you can't proofread and remove ALL names, then don't publish at all.

Edited:


Wikileaks owner is doing a crime by publishing names. Because of that fucking idiot people who actually help either died or are endangered.

Wikileaks is not the one commiting major crimes here the government is.
They are still going to kill civilians whether it's delibrate or accidental until they stop the war. They are bringing this all on themselfs.

Watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI

[TH89]

starpluck posted:

Have you even read the leaks? Go read a piece of it right now, I bet you won't be able to understand it. And there's no "Informant" section. Dome few documents just happened to have some names.

What's your point? I know they didn't leak a document called "People the Taliban would Totally Kill if They Found Out Their Names." But that doesn't matter. If AI had serious concerns, there's a reason for it.

starpluck posted:

Now everyone thinks that the Taliban will hunt them down.

Well, they did promise they would.

Edited:

Mr. Scorpio posted:

so you're saying they're too stupid to have a legitimate reason for doing this, but they're smart enough to engineer the news networks of america

I don't think they're stupid at all. They wouldn't be able to get away with all they have if they were dumb.

That said, news cycles are pretty basic stuff. Marketing companies and PR firms deal with them all the time. "Engineer the news networks of America" is a bit of an overblown way to put it.

[DamagePoint]

I'm just throwing this out here, this is what Wikileaks put on their twitter account:

Wikileaks posted:

"Don't be fooled on the "human rights groups". No formal statement. US led."

I mean, what the fuck. If they aren't doing it for the attention now I don't know what they are doing it for, but they are being incredibly hypocritical here.

[Jsm]

Are they saying they (Wikileaks) are not giving a formal statement on it, or are they saying the human rights groups haven't put out a formal statement with regards to this? (IE Suggesting its being made up by the media)

[DamagePoint]

starpluck posted:

Now everyone thinks that the Taliban will hunt them down.

Well they said that they would. And they've hunted down people in the past for collaborating with Nato forces. So I don't think that's a far fetched conclusion to make.

[Warhol]

Sickle posted:

Scouring a post and banning people for the slightest infringement (Can you even call that an infringement?) of the rules to cut out a person trying to prove you wrong is a great way to win an argument.

He ALWAYS does that. He has a bad habit of banning people whom he disagrees with.

I remember I got banned for trolling a while back for asking for a source for some absolute bullshit claim he made.

Edited:

GunFox posted:

Wow, flaming AND blatantly wrong. You failed pretty hard here, kiddo.

Wow, bullshit ban and ignoring the argument. You failed pretty hard there, kiddo.

Try fucking providing an argument. Again, you have CLEARLY never met a soldier.

guess what Gunfox, 'gunfurry' was one word out of that long post. The rest was both observations and a fucking argument.

waaaahhh, i disagree with him, he must be banned

gunfox up to his ol' ban those who he disagrees with routine.

And I didn't even fucking flame you.


Try fucking providing an argument. Again, you have CLEARLY never met a soldier.

Edited:

GunFox posted:

I let countless amounts of shit go.

I ENJOY debating. If I ban the other person, then the fun is over. However "Gunfurry" is about to start earning people a permaban. I've let it go for half a decade. It's over.

EDIT:

Oh hey, looks like the localflavor is actually Warhol. Come back to continue causing trouble even while banned.

Not really, you ban people for any ounce of dissent. People walk on egg shells with you.

gunfurry is going to get perma? Oh grow up.

totally not like anyone ever uses alts right?

Now if you'll kindly answer my points or are you going to ignore them again and ban me.

Edited:

Capitulazyguy posted:

Hey guess who suffers for this.
(Hint: American soldiers and Afghan civilians).

Anyone suffering right now is just a government smear campaign.

Edited:

There is NO evidence of anything of the sort happening.

(User was banned for this post ("Coming back to bitch on an alt" - GunFox))

[MaxOfS2D]

Assange sounds like he's just leaking stuff for the sake of leaking it

He should only reveal the most important stuff, goddamn

[Warhol]

johncage posted:

Happens in any war. I don't think I need to be made aware of it. The alternative is to tuck tail and run then wait for them to fly another plane into a skyscraper.

Alright boyo, lets fucking paint this:

First of all, you know but others DON'T or refuse to. Not you, but OTHERS NEED to fucking be made aware.

NOW, lets say for example you Americans "Tuck tail" and leave


guess what, three little problems with that comment:
A: The organisation that did that has been dissolved. The people in charge in hiding. What's left if an insurgency that has one goal: remove the US from their country. If they did a fucking repeat 9/11, then guess what? We're back to fucking square one. The three entities you're fighting, Iraq, The Taliban and Bin Laden, won't do such a thing on American soil.
B: Tuck tail? Who gives an utter fuck about your stupid fucking "honour". Americans got their asses handed to them on several occasions, so who fucking cares if you do now.
C: In the last 9 years, America has spent more money on defence, homeland security, TSA, the war, hunting people who "pose threats" to national security, upgrading police for Terrorist attack scenarios, establishing counter-terrorism groups, pumping money into other countries for similar things and training police in occupied countries to do work of Americans, then every single country in the world combined in history

and you mean to fucking tell me you're scared a bunch of pissed off farmers are going to do a repeat 9/11?

[Doriol]

Max of S2D posted:

Assange sounds like he's just leaking stuff for the sake of leaking it

didn't some dude from oklahoma leak the documents

[Sporkfire]

Warhol, why can't you debate without so much angst directed at other people?

[Doriol]

do you even know what angst is